What has Jay Gruden accomplished?

[riggofan]

That's exactly when a head coach is replaced. When he's not living up to expectations. The issue here is that Scot McCloughan's expectations are the one's that count, not fan expectations.

Exactly and thank god. And the "expectations" thing is complete BS.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/201 ... edictions/
Prediction: 6.4 wins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2438 ... every-game
Final Record: 6-10

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... redictions
Final Record: 6-10

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ams-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... n-the-east
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/04/cover- ... -of-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2562 ... d-reaction
Prediction: 31 out of 32

Everybody - including most of us here - understood that this isn't a winning roster yet. Scot McCloughan came out and said so EXPLICITLY himself before the season started. So the idea that the head coach is holding them back is completely laughable.

Win two more games this season, and the team has pretty much exceeded 95% of the expectations out there.

[SkinsJock]

Jay Gruden has not done a bad job and IMO he's here for another season - Scot is not as impulsive as you know who

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

That's exactly when a head coach is replaced. When he's not living up to expectations. The issue here is that Scot McCloughan's expectations are the one's that count, not fan expectations.

Exactly and thank god. And the "expectations" thing is complete BS.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/201 ... edictions/
Prediction: 6.4 wins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2438 ... every-game
Final Record: 6-10

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... redictions
Final Record: 6-10

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ams-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... n-the-east
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/04/cover- ... -of-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2562 ... d-reaction
Prediction: 31 out of 32

Everybody - including most of us here - understood that this isn't a winning roster yet. Scot McCloughan came out and said so EXPLICITLY himself before the season started. So the idea that the head coach is holding them back is completely laughable.

Win two more games this season, and the team has pretty much exceeded 95% of the expectations out there.

Stop confusing the narrative with facts.

[markshark84]

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach. We don't know that he is going to get fired next year. Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster. I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point, but I can't condone starting over again this quickly. Of course, if that's what Scot wants to do, then who am I to say no?

What about Zorn..... I think that was a unique situation. Dude is still a QB coach. Another example of Danny boy idiocy.

Joking aside, I totally agree with your sentiments.

Whether Gruden will get fired will most likely be determined by these last few games. If we make the playoffs, there is no way he'll be fired.

[SkinsJock]

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach. We don't know that he is going to get fired next year. Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster. I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point, but I can't condone starting over again this quickly. ...

+1 - we are not the same old Redskins (I know that we don't know that for sure) - we should be looking at this franchise with the knowledge that NFL people are now making decisions here - Jay Gruden has not done as well with the offensive game as might be expected but he's also just really had 1 year with Scot and we are still in contention to win the NFC East - that is amazing even considering how bad the division is


this offseason I am sure that Scot and the FO will make the best decisions (especially at HC & QB) for this franchise going forward

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach.

You don't have to do anything which is why we've had more coaches and quarterbacks than Bayer has aspirin.

We don't know that he is going to get fired next year.

Of course we do. We know everything. Just ask us.

Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster.

This.

I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point

And this.

I can't condone starting over again this quickly. Of course, if that's what Scot wants to do, then who am I to say no?

And this.

[Deadskins]

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach. We don't know that he is going to get fired next year. Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster. I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point, but I can't condone starting over again this quickly. Of course, if that's what Scot wants to do, then who am I to say no?

What about Zorn..... I think that was a unique situation. Dude is still a QB coach. Another example of Danny boy idiocy.

Joking aside, I totally agree with your sentiments.

Whether Gruden will get fired will most likely be determined by these last few games. If we make the playoffs, there is no way he'll be fired.

Zorn was hired as an OC before being promoted, when the Danny discovered that no coach would come when you've already hired his OC.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Don't look now but you just answered your own question...I see a lot of people giving credit to SM and other for the improvement that they have shown, but are quick to blame Gruden for the negative. If the HC gets the blame when things go bad shouldn’t he be given some credit when they go right??

I don't give Jay credit because Jay didn't do it last year. How many rookies played last year? How many made an impact? If Jay deserved credit for player development and acquisition, it would have revealed itself before. He can have credit Dunbar. Sure.

I give Scot credit for bringing in talent and a new culture into this franchise. Neither of which existed prior to his arrival. I give the DC credit for coaching up his young guys and off-the-street players and making impact games. The more people this defense loses, the better they seem to get. We've watched DC ADJUST his defense to the strenghts of his personnel. Hall is playing saftey now, in some sort of hybrid scheme where he and Goldson alternate. Baker is finally fully emergaing. Houston bates is out here making huge plays! Our star MLB is benched, replaced with Compton! The addition of Compton elevated the play of Perry Riley.

Blackmon - off the street and covering tier 1 receivers
Mason - off the street and balled out of his mind on MNF
Dunbar - speaks for itself


Jay was brought in as an offensive guy, and he'd get credit...full credit for any offensive mastery. There is none. It's regressed in many ways. Who has developed under him?

Where have we seen the adjustments and curating of scheme to the strengths of the personnel is Grudens regard? We haven't. One of his best players in D. Young can barely get a snap. He'd rather play a tackle at TE and tip his hand, because he runs 75% of the time that Compton is in. They just isn't that damn bright.

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach. We don't know that he is going to get fired next year. Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster. I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point, but I can't condone starting over again this quickly. Of course, if that's what Scot wants to do, then who am I to say no?

An improved roster? He has one now.

- He has the best QB on the roster who isn't too shabby.
- A former NFL leading rusher, who he's completely destroyed
- A former PB FB in his prime, who he doesn't use.
- A top 5 receiving TE.
- ProBowl LT, 1st round rookie at RG and a RT playing damn near at a ProBowl level
- Garcon is a monster
- Jackson barely gets used
- crowder


I mean Jay has weapons. Sure, we can use help at center and LG. Most definitely. But, we've also watched the Patrios play every-freaking-offensive linemen out of position and win games. Obviously, we aren' the Patriots but we SHOULD BE GETTING MORE THAN 1.6 YPC on first down.

This is the main gripe with Gruden. Injuries are gonna happen in this league and we lost all our TE"s and it DESTROYED his running system. He's been completely unable to adjust to it. And horribly unwilling to put his FB in the game. And not only is he unable to adjust his roster/scheme, he doesn't seem capable of maknig in-game adjustments.

If I'm saying anything that's not factual, please correct me. But what I really want to know is, what is he gonna improve upon in his third year that he couldn't have done this year? I think we know who and want Jay is at this point. He's a nobody. The Bengals obviously don't miss him, as they're excelling in his absence. And look at what he had to work with there, you'd have to be an atrocious coach to fail with those guys.

[DEHog]

Don't look now but you just answered your own question...I see a lot of people giving credit to SM and other for the improvement that they have shown, but are quick to blame Gruden for the negative. If the HC gets the blame when things go bad shouldn’t he be given some credit when they go right??

I don't give Jay credit because Jay didn't do it last year. How many rookies played last year? How many made an impact?

Jay was brought in as an offensive guy, and he'd get credit...full credit for any offensive mastery. There is none. It's regressed in many ways.

I give Scot credit for bringing in talent and a new culture into this franchise. Neither of which existed prior to his arrival. I give the DC credit for coaching up his young guys and off-the-street players and making impact games. The more people this defense loses, the better they seem to get. We've watched DC ADJUST his defense to the strenghts of his personnel. Hall is playing saftey now, in some sort of hybrid scheme where he and Goldson alternate. Baker is finally fully emergaing. Houston bates is out here making huge plays! Our star MLB is benched, replaced with Compton! The addition of Compton elavated the play of Perry Riley.

Where have we seen the adjustments and curating of scheme to the strengths of the personnel is Grudens regard? We haven't. One of his best players in D. Young can barely get a snap. He'd rather play a tackle at TE and tip his hand, because he runs 75% of the time that Compton is in. They just isn't that damn bright.

You don’t find it coincidental that he didn’t do it last year but then a competent GM show s up and he’s a little better coach? Competent GM’s and good coaches are not mutually exclusive. HC and QB get too much credit for winning and too much blame when they lose!!

[Chris Luva Luva]

You don’t find it coincidental that he didn’t do it last year but then a competent GM show s up and he’s a little better coach? Competent GM’s and good coaches are not mutually exclusive. HC and QB get too much credit for winning and too much blame when they lose!!

Well, I never said that he's coaching better this year. If anything he's done worse this year, offensively. Can we give him credit for Kirk starting? I'm not even sure about that because he got overruled. Jay said it was an open competition and then was forced into a hostage situation by handing it over to RGIII.

The passing game has improved to a degree, in that it's not a complete joke. That's about it. Am I missing anything else offensively?

[DEHog]

You don’t find it coincidental that he didn’t do it last year but then a competent GM show s up and he’s a little better coach? Competent GM’s and good coaches are not mutually exclusive. HC and QB get too much credit for winning and too much blame when they lose!!

Well, I never said that he's coaching better this year. If anything he's done worse this year, offensively. Can we give him credit for Kirk starting? I'm not even sure about that because he got overruled. Jay said it was an open competition and then was forced into a hostage situation by handing it over to RGIII.

The passing game has improved to a degree, in that it's not a complete joke. That's about it. Am I missing anything else offensively?

I do think he gets credit for starting Kirk; the offense has improved from last year. You have me in a position of trying to defend Gruden which for me is difficult…I didn't like the hire from the start. As I've said numerous times I believed his job was on the line this year if he wasn't playing meaningful games in December. I concede that Tom Coughlin has more to do with us still be alive for a playoff spot than Gruden does, but Jay is the HC not the OC and all the positives you have mentioned have come under his watch.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I do think he gets credit for starting Kirk; the offense has improved from last year.

Last year he wanted nothing to do with Kirk... So can we really say that this was Grudens decision. If he had it his way, based off of last years actions. He would have started McCoy.

[DEHog]

Don’t kid yourself Chris, Gruden wanted anyone but RG. You don’t think his hand was forced? Why did RG start after Colt had us on (the only) two game streak of Gruden's tenure?

[SkinsJock]

I will add that Gruden and McVay had better have come up with some way for Kirk to better handle the pressure as everyone will have seen what the almost constant blitzing did to our offense last week

last night, watching the Vikes in Arizona, Phil Simms pointed out that the Vikings were blitzing on most plays to try and make things difficult for Palmer and that the most effective way of handling the blitz was to be able to complete long passes - admittedly the defense got to Palmer a bit but he had an amazing # of passes that traveled more than 15 yards in the air

we all know that Kirk is not great under pressure and we that do not have a great offensive line - we have to find a better way to handle the blitz and the pressure because after what we saw last week it's going to be there until we clearly show that we can handle it

this is not Kirk's responsibility, this is on Gruden and McVay - they need to prepare him better and game plan better than they have - we have not improved on offense and this is not all on the QB or the O line ... PLUS we have better players at the skill positions

Cousins is mean't to be very good at getting rid of the ball quickly and making plays off play-action

WE MUST ESTABLISH THE RUN AND GET THE DEEP PASSING GAME GOING

[markshark84]

You have to give a coach at least three seasons, especially a rookie coach. We don't know that he is going to get fired next year. Let Scot have another draft and see what Gruden can do with an improved roster. I feel your frustration, and I agree that Gruden hasn't shown much to this point, but I can't condone starting over again this quickly. Of course, if that's what Scot wants to do, then who am I to say no?

What about Zorn..... I think that was a unique situation. Dude is still a QB coach. Another example of Danny boy idiocy.

Joking aside, I totally agree with your sentiments.

Whether Gruden will get fired will most likely be determined by these last few games. If we make the playoffs, there is no way he'll be fired.

Zorn was hired as an OC before being promoted, when the Danny discovered that no coach would come when you've already hired his OC.

Yup. Perhaps saying unique was being too nice. If you look back at all the idiotic things Danny boy has done in his 16 LONG years as owner, people would think the guy is perhaps the stupidest person on the planet.

[SkinsJock]

Don’t kid yourself Chris, Gruden wanted anyone but RG. You don’t think his hand was forced? Why did RG start after Colt had us on (the only) two game streak of Gruden's tenure?

Jay Gruden was brought in to be the HC but also to help make RG3 a better QB - that did not work out but then he also found out that Kirk Cousins was not as good as he hoped and we had the QB fiasco of 2014

The Redskins brought in McCloughan - Gruden made Cousins the starter and McCoy the back-up and it quickly became obvious that RG3 was not playing here in 2015

Cousins has improved but while the Redskins are playing meaningful games in December the offense here has been disappointing - Gruden and McVay have the weapons at skill positions and while the O line has been a work in progress, it is improved on last season and the biggest reasons for the offense not being as effective IMO is because of 'coaching' by McVay (and Gruden if he's involved with this) not eliminating the offensive penalties, not having good game planning for the defense that we're playing and not helping Cousins confidence get better by allowing him to change plays at the LOS - IF Cousins is allowed to change plays at the LOS, then McVay and the QB coach has to show him the tapes where he's obviously not reading what the defense is going to do & how to change the plays accordingly

Barry and Callahan have been key additions for Gruden

[markshark84]

The Redskins brought in McCloughan - Gruden made Cousins the starter and McCoy the back-up and it quickly became obvious that RG3 was not playing here in 2015

I also think that Scot was also on board with naming Cousins the starter. The GMs, especially ones like Scot, tend to provide a good deal of input on starters.

Cousins has improved but while the Redskins are playing meaningful games in December the offense here has been disappointing - Gruden and McVay have the weapons at skill positions and while the O line has been a work in progress, it is improved on last season and the biggest reasons for the offense not being as effective IMO is because of 'coaching' by McVay

Agree that the offense has been below average. But I don't think our OL has improved from last year. Our RBs are averaging over half a yard less PER RUN vs. 2014 and in 2014 Cousins was sacked 8 times on 204 attempts vs. 20 times in 290 attempts this year. It is very difficult to tell since there was so much transition and inconsistency last year, but I'd consider this OL to be in the bottom 5-10 of the NFL.

I do agree on McVay. He has proven to be of no value. Playcalling is bad but I think that's on Gruden.

[oj]

For sure Jay Gruden knows his job is on the line. So what we are seeing is the very best effort he can forth. This is it, it will not get any better. Any questions?

[SkinsJock]

We need to continue to upgrade our offensive line and it will happen but it's going to take time - this is not just a matter of adding players

the O line play this season has not been helped at all by the OC or whomever is game planning and calling plays

[markshark84]

For sure Jay Gruden knows his job is on the line. So what we are seeing is the very best effort he can forth. This is it, it will not get any better. Any questions?

Well, then I guess its settled guys. Whatever OJ says is fact. Also, what 3 stocks that are going to jump 50% in the next 6 months. I also need those.....

Joking aside, so basically you are saying that he is doing his very best because his job is on the line. By that token, I wonder if Belicheck was doing the same in 1995 or Dungy in 2002. I bet they were also putting in their best efforts...... Then again, I would think every coach in the NFL is putting in their best efforts under any conditions --- and it they aren't, that a better reason to fire them.

I am not trying to compare Jay Gruden to those guys; more to use them as examples to show how irrational the point is. And it can get "better" in terms of wins if we get better players. I am still not sold on Gruden AT ALL, but saying that Gruden is incapable of improving as a coach (after all, he only has 28 games under his belt) is idiotic. Anyone can improve, not just Gruden.

[oj]

For sure Jay Gruden knows his job is on the line. So what we are seeing is the very best effort he can forth. This is it, it will not get any better. Any questions?

Well, then I guess its settled guys. Whatever OJ says is fact. Also, what 3 stocks that are going to jump 50% in the next 6 months. I also need those.....

Joking aside, so basically you are saying that he is doing his very best because his job is on the line. By that token, I wonder if Belicheck was doing the same in 1995 or Dungy in 2002. I bet they were also putting in their best efforts...... Then again, I would think every coach in the NFL is putting in their best efforts under any conditions --- and it they aren't, that a better reason to fire them.

I am not trying to compare Jay Gruden to those guys; more to use them as examples to show how irrational the point is. And it can get "better" in terms of wins if we get better players. I am still not sold on Gruden AT ALL, but saying that Gruden is incapable of improving as a coach (after all, he only has 28 games under his belt) is idiotic. Anyone can improve, not just Gruden.

Agreed, he will get better against those of lesser experience, he will maintain the current level against his peers and those of greater experience. We need a coach that can gain on those of greater experience.

[PulpExposure]

That's exactly when a head coach is replaced. When he's not living up to expectations. The issue here is that Scot McCloughan's expectations are the one's that count, not fan expectations.

Exactly and thank god. And the "expectations" thing is complete BS.

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/201 ... edictions/
Prediction: 6.4 wins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2438 ... every-game
Final Record: 6-10

http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... redictions
Final Record: 6-10

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ams-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... n-the-east
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/04/cover- ... -of-finish
Prediction: 4th place in NFC East

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2562 ... d-reaction
Prediction: 31 out of 32

Everybody - including most of us here - understood that this isn't a winning roster yet. Scot McCloughan came out and said so EXPLICITLY himself before the season started. So the idea that the head coach is holding them back is completely laughable.

Win two more games this season, and the team has pretty much exceeded 95% of the expectations out there.

So those predictions aren't just based upon the roster, but also take into account the head coach. When I look at this, it tells me that people external to the Redskins think both the roster and HC aren't competitive.

[SkinsJock]

so ... what has Jay Gruden accomplished over the past 2 seasons?

Not a lot ... but, it's a lot easier if you just accept that the Redskins are getting better; Jay Gruden is doing as well as he can with the players he has; Kirk Cousins is proving to be a good NFL QB and because we are playing meaningful games in December, all is OK with the Redskins nation

I'm actually starting to give some credence to some of the BS being posted ........ well, almost

[Chris Luva Luva]

Jay Gruden is doing as well as he can with the players he has

And that's my point of contention. I believe more could be done with the current crop of players.

[riggofan]

Jay Gruden is doing as well as he can with the players he has

And that's my point of contention. I believe more could be done with the current crop of players.

I respect most of your opinions, my friend, but just have to respectfully disagree with this one. I think the team has completely overachieved this season and surpassed my personal expectations. This season has been 1000x more enjoyable to watch than I expected.