Would/should we trade RG3 for a 1st round pick?

[OldSchool]

I can't imagine anyone offering the Skins a draft choice for Griffin. I understand I am more negative about Griffin's potential than most but I think only a minority of Skins fans and Daniel Snyder see future for Griffin. If the Skins cut Griffin I think some team wold pick him up to see if they could teach him how to play QB, but I can't imagine him sticking. I think Snyder's dream dies this year and Griffin won't be on the roster in 2016.

[Countertrey]

Great understatements in history:

I understand I am more negative about Griffin's potential than most

[riggofan]

Charley Casserly of NFL Media reported that it was the Browns, who own two first-round picks this year and an uncertain quarterback situation even after signing Josh McCown following his release by the Buccaneers, who made the offer. Adam Caplan of ESPN reported the same on Tuesday and added it was the 19th pick that they received in a trade with Buffalo during the first round last year that they were willing to deal.

Like I said, Browns offered their 19th pick... send that our way please.

you're dreaming ...

Honestly, I can't imagine we could even get a third round pick for Griffin. *Maybe* something late round and a conditional pick in 2016 or something like that, but even then I'm not sure what team would do that at this point.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I would trade Griffin for a bag of damp sweat socks, I think he is a drain of time and energy.

ANY QB here has to face this towns media, and its ALWAYS easier for the backup...


I'd keep the ROY hoping he turns a corner and adds to the records he broke... and trade Kirk Grossman for a Folgers Coffee can filled with farts.

[OldSchool]

I would trade Griffin for a bag of damp sweat socks, I think he is a drain of time and energy.

ANY QB here has to face this towns media, and its ALWAYS easier for the backup...


I'd keep the ROY hoping he turns a corner and adds to the records he broke... and trade Kirk Grossman for a Folgers Coffee can filled with farts.

ROY? what a joke 2012 was with the Skins running a high school offense so Griffin could understand. High school offenses with skinny leg running quarterbacks eventually get broke in the NFL so the sad ending was predictable. A few fans like you remain intoxicated from the 2012 fumes but the rest of the dirlirous sobered up in 2013 or 2014, one game at a time.....

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Rigggght... and I watched every game objectively as well.. can you say the same? I saw Kirk lead the league in turn overs.. I saw Colt hit lbs in the endzone and Robert get sacked (often) instead of throw it away.
No qb looked good behind the line that rgprekneeinjury made "look" better. The backyard football HS nonsense is a cop out that uneducated posters and fans throw out. He couldnt have broken as many records, including most accurate Rookie of all time, on just a fluke. I KNOW 2012 is gone- and have no hope for the same type of performance. I want better, and matured passing.. I just dont think your tanted opinion means that Robert is as bad as you hope he is.

You dont know me, nor my educated opinions (weren't u that guy so fed up w losing you "didn't waste time watching" this past year??), so dont come at me bruh.. intoxicated off 2012? And what your intoxicated on Colts mediocre win vs dullass?? :Scoff: That was way more our D, surprisingly, then any masterful performance from the qb. We don't have any better options, so instead of bitching every day about Robert- and you know you do- why not support our starter for once? Who knows, maybe youll actually feel good about rooting for us, knowing his journey has been a tough uphill climb.. If/when that changes, ill gladly sing Hail To ______ <---- insert any qb that leads us back to the playoffs with you man.

We get it. You hate Robert. Try a new thought out for once... sob

[Prowl33]

Cowboy and oldschool... 2 opposite sides of the refskins QB spectrum.

First Cowboy, the reason Robert wont do what he did in 2012 has nothing to do with his ankle. Its a few different things...

1) His play was a mix between his athletic ability and a system designed to simplify and confuse defenses to the point where simple 1 read passes were possible. Robert executed them very very well

2) Teams understand how to defend that better now, it can still be effective, but not nearly as much so better pocket skills are needed

3) Robert doesnt want to use his skills like that anymore, he wants to be a pure pocket passer, and he may or may not be able to succeed that way, it is yet to be seen

Oldschool...

Cousins may be able to develop into a more consistent passer, he is good in the pocket, he can be accurate, he can throw the big ball, he can progress through his reads, and he has good awareness in the pocket. Issue is can he get rid of his inconsistency with ball placement for those interceptions? He very likely can, but no one knows yet... I feel like Gruden sees something we dont... because on paper Cousins fits Grudens system perfectly. It may be a confidence or resilience thing to bounce back from adversity and/or be a leader we heard a little about during the season.... who knows.

I think both can be starting qbs somewhere in the nfl.... give me them over ej manuel or geno or some of these other bums any day... but I dont think either will be starting next year... or maybe not even on the team.

[riggofan]

I'm just so bored with the RGIII discussion. Love him, hate him, whatever.

I assume he's going to have a chance to prove he can play this season. Time to put up or shut up.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Cowboy and oldschool... 2 opposite sides of the refskins QB spectrum.

First Cowboy, the reason Robert wont do what he did in 2012 has nothing to do with his ankle. Its a few different things...

1) His play was a mix between his athletic ability and a system designed to simplify and confuse defenses to the point where simple 1 read passes were possible. Robert executed them very very well

2) Teams understand how to defend that better now, it can still be effective, but not nearly as much so better pocket skills are needed

3) Robert doesnt want to use his skills like that anymore, he wants to be a pure pocket passer, and he may or may not be able to succeed that way, it is yet to be seen

Oldschool...

Cousins may be able to develop into a more consistent passer, he is good in the pocket, he can be accurate, he can throw the big ball, he can progress through his reads, and he has good awareness in the pocket. Issue is can he get rid of his inconsistency with ball placement for those interceptions? He very likely can, but no one knows yet... I feel like Gruden sees something we dont... because on paper Cousins fits Grudens system perfectly. It may be a confidence or resilience thing to bounce back from adversity and/or be a leader we heard a little about during the season.... who knows.

I think both can be starting qbs somewhere in the nfl.... give me them over ej manuel or geno or some of these other bums any day... but I dont think either will be starting next year... or maybe not even on the team.

I think thats pretty accurate and agree on many points... I havent jumped in to any of the Cousins vs Rg3 threads lately so you might not know my stance- I eluded to it but I think every Griff supporter (with football knowledge at least) wants him to develop into the pocket passer he wasnt in 2012. Similar to Luck, maybe more deep ball action off a solid run game, but less running to preserve his body for sure.

What Cousins lacks in confidence and will power, Rg3 has in ten fold. I think that is MUCH harder to teach then how to read a D and/or make adjustments at the line. Last year was his first time handed the reigns in that respect- and he still didnt do as bad as some like to think.

Ultimately I agree.. I see our qb depth as a strength honestly- and with some good pieces added, maybe that will show up on the field better this year no matter who is under center

[Prowl33]

Really depends on the person in both aspects. Cousins can gain confidence, its a state of mind, and in a good situation he may do great... or he may revert... depends on how sharp and strong he can be mentally and emotionally.

Griffin... being quick to make the right decision and being smart and remembering plays are 2 different things. He can have every play memorized but when it comes time to that split second decision can he make the right one? That is yet to be seen.

Our QB depth to me is our downfall, we got 3 qbs that anyone cab argue should start... so it will create friction and controversy till there is only 1 clear starter viewed by coaches, media, and fans and we will struggle till that stops.

[Irn-Bru]

I'm just so bored with the RGIII discussion. Love him, hate him, whatever.

I assume he's going to have a chance to prove he can play this season. Time to put up or shut up.

Agreed. I'm still a fan of RGIII and I'm really pulling for him and hoping he succeeds. But if there is limited or no progress going into this season, I won't mind it at all if the coaches decide it's best to bench him, let him go in FA after the season, trade him, etc. No one will be able to say he wasn't given a chance to prove his worth to the franchise.

[markshark84]

Rigggght... and I watched every game objectively as well.. can you say the same?

Really? I can recall you actually saying the exact opposite. I believe "bias" was the word....

What Cousins lacks in confidence and will power, Rg3 has in ten fold. I think that is MUCH harder to teach then how to read a D and/or make adjustments at the line. Last year was his first time handed the reigns in that respect- and he still didnt do as bad as some like to think.

Ultimately I agree.. I see our qb depth as a strength honestly- and with some good pieces added, maybe that will show up on the field better this year no matter who is under center

As far as confidence, I tend to agree, but a part of me wonders if that is more just being cocky or a show. The truly confident do NOT puff out their chests and make grand statements. I do think that Cousins lacks confidence. That is evident by his mistakes breeding mistakes.

I agree you can't "teach" confidence, it is something that is obtained. But it is obtainable. That said, it is VERY difficult to teach the ability to read DEFs or make line adjustments. That could take YEARS OVER YEARS.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Rigggght... and I watched every game objectively as well.. can you say the same?

Really? I can recall you actually saying the exact opposite. I believe "bias" was the word....

What Cousins lacks in confidence and will power, Rg3 has in ten fold. I think that is MUCH harder to teach then how to read a D and/or make adjustments at the line. Last year was his first time handed the reigns in that respect- and he still didnt do as bad as some like to think.

Ultimately I agree.. I see our qb depth as a strength honestly- and with some good pieces added, maybe that will show up on the field better this year no matter who is under center

As far as confidence, I tend to agree, but a part of me wonders if that is more just being cocky or a show. The truly confident do NOT puff out their chests and make grand statements. I do think that Cousins lacks confidence. That is evident by his mistakes breeding mistakes.

I agree you can't "teach" confidence, it is something that is obtained. But it is obtainable. That said, it is VERY difficult to teach the ability to read DEFs or make line adjustments. That could take YEARS OVER YEARS.

THERE he is!!
MarkyMark!!! My d o g! Haha any rg3 vs kirk grossman convo wouldnt be the same without ya! Im mobile so I ccant spkit the quotes- as you should recall ill stick to numericals...

1. Ok. Bare with me here and try to bar selective memory- I distinctly recall us disagreeing on "objective". While its no secret whom I prwfer, ultimately I root for every qb behind center- from McNugget to Ferrot.. I know you think being Rg3 bias means I cant be objective, I disagree and game day threads will show me rooting all three on and smh at Rob as much as Kirk for untimely mistakes.

2. I think Roberts flaw has been trying to do to much vs accepting a play is dead and getting rid of the ball.. or taking a 2 yard gain vs staring down the covered 10 yard slant. I think he made progress this year and found the check down more- while still needing to improve in that area. I dont get the cocky remarks and rgme.. I wstch the pressers and I just dont see it. Maybe its a generational thing but I always praised his mental prowlness like old school Tiger woods. Whats different is Robert exudes confidence in the face of controversy, after injury, after scrutiny, and after failure. Can he be more humble? I guess some would prefer it... but most young qbs would've been broken mentally after half of what he has endured.

3. Its hard to gain confidence when you struggle.. same thing with Tiger but circa now.. he is ok until the bad shows then its a downward spiral- insert Kirk. When the wheels fall off the engine blows up and he losses his mojo. RG has demonstrated better short term memory by forgetting a bad play and comig back w a good play- imho

4. Another area we can agree to disagree. . Confident people aren't not confident one day then wake up confident. You kinda have it or you dont. As far as reading a D- this is something that can be worked on 24/7- you miggt disagree and probably many will join you, BUT in this day and age Madden om PS4 DEFINITELY can help RG3 with those skills. I know first hand- while its a game and not life- it can be out to very life like reactions/scenarios/realisticness etc.. RG3 can use it religiously (after uploading original plays/ audibles from McVay) to see coverages check and practice what to check into as well as to see the field and practice on decision making. Ive increased my level of play, and while im not a pro- when me and the game scrimmage at the park I can attribute quicker reaction time to the gaming system-

SO I still think RG has a lot easier curve to overcome then Kirk.. but who knows, maybe its Colt they both need to worry about being #1!!

[yupchagee]

Cowboy and oldschool... 2 opposite sides of the refskins QB spectrum.

First Cowboy, the reason Robert wont do what he did in 2012 has nothing to do with his ankle. Its a few different things...

1) His play was a mix between his athletic ability and a system designed to simplify and confuse defenses to the point where simple 1 read passes were possible. Robert executed them very very well

2) Teams understand how to defend that better now, it can still be effective, but not nearly as much so better pocket skills are needed

3) Robert doesnt want to use his skills like that anymore, he wants to be a pure pocket passer, and he may or may not be able to succeed that way, it is yet to be seen

Oldschool...

Cousins may be able to develop into a more consistent passer, he is good in the pocket, he can be accurate, he can throw the big ball, he can progress through his reads, and he has good awareness in the pocket. Issue is can he get rid of his inconsistency with ball placement for those interceptions? He very likely can, but no one knows yet... I feel like Gruden sees something we dont... because on paper Cousins fits Grudens system perfectly. It may be a confidence or resilience thing to bounce back from adversity and/or be a leader we heard a little about during the season.... who knows.

I think both can be starting qbs somewhere in the nfl.... give me them over ej manuel or geno or some of these other bums any day... but I dont think either will be starting next year... or maybe not even on the team.

I think thats pretty accurate and agree on many points... I havent jumped in to any of the Cousins vs Rg3 threads lately so you might not know my stance- I eluded to it but I think every Griff supporter (with football knowledge at least) wants him to develop into the pocket passer he wasnt in 2012. Similar to Luck, maybe more deep ball action off a solid run game, but less running to preserve his body for sure.

What Cousins lacks in confidence and will power, Rg3 has in ten fold. I think that is MUCH harder to teach then how to read a D and/or make adjustments at the line. Last year was his first time handed the reigns in that respect- and he still didnt do as bad as some like to think.

Ultimately I agree.. I see our qb depth as a strength honestly- and with some good pieces added, maybe that will show up on the field better this year no matter who is under center

It doesn't have to be a choice between read option & drop back pocket passer. Griff throws better on the move than standing still. Rollouts & moving pockets should be considered.

[markshark84]

THERE he is!!
MarkyMark!!! My d o g! Haha any rg3 vs kirk grossman convo wouldnt be the same without ya! Im mobile so I ccant spkit the quotes- as you should recall ill stick to numericals...

1. Ok. Bare with me here and try to bar selective memory- I distinctly recall us disagreeing on "objective". While its no secret whom I prwfer, ultimately I root for every qb behind center- from McNugget to Ferrot.. I know you think being Rg3 bias means I cant be objective, I disagree and game day threads will show me rooting all three on and smh at Rob as much as Kirk for untimely mistakes.

2. I think Roberts flaw has been trying to do to much vs accepting a play is dead and getting rid of the ball.. or taking a 2 yard gain vs staring down the covered 10 yard slant. I think he made progress this year and found the check down more- while still needing to improve in that area. I dont get the cocky remarks and rgme.. I wstch the pressers and I just dont see it. Maybe its a generational thing but I always praised his mental prowlness like old school Tiger woods. Whats different is Robert exudes confidence in the face of controversy, after injury, after scrutiny, and after failure. Can he be more humble? I guess some would prefer it... but most young qbs would've been broken mentally after half of what he has endured.

3. Its hard to gain confidence when you struggle.. same thing with Tiger but circa now.. he is ok until the bad shows then its a downward spiral- insert Kirk. When the wheels fall off the engine blows up and he losses his mojo. RG has demonstrated better short term memory by forgetting a bad play and comig back w a good play- imho

4. Another area we can agree to disagree. . Confident people aren't not confident one day then wake up confident. You kinda have it or you dont. As far as reading a D- this is something that can be worked on 24/7- you miggt disagree and probably many will join you, BUT in this day and age Madden om PS4 DEFINITELY can help RG3 with those skills. I know first hand- while its a game and not life- it can be out to very life like reactions/scenarios/realisticness etc.. RG3 can use it religiously (after uploading original plays/ audibles from McVay) to see coverages check and practice what to check into as well as to see the field and practice on decision making. Ive increased my level of play, and while im not a pro- when me and the game scrimmage at the park I can attribute quicker reaction time to the gaming system-

SO I still think RG has a lot easier curve to overcome then Kirk.. but who knows, maybe its Colt they both need to worry about being #1!!

Nice. I literally LOLed on your opening lines!! I'm not in a huge response mood today, so I'll keep it short here.

1. ok

2. I think RGIII's biggest issue is that he holds onto the ball too long. I think the reason he hit check downs was because he couldn't see the field. Tiger was mentally unreal in his prime, BUT after his Dad passed it seemed to disappear. I think his father had EVERYTHING to do with his mental advantage. I don't think any QB would have broken by now in RGIII"s situation. RGIII has a TON of support in Danny Boy. I think that is the problem. He knows that if all goes wrong, he can cry up to Danny to get his way...... it worked by getting MS fired..... I don't consider what he has gone through as "adversity"..... Kurt Warner --- now that is ADVERSITY. I WISH I faced the "adversity" of being a #2 pick, getting MULTIPLE years to prove myself, making MILLIONS and having the owner in my back pocket..... And I just don't see the confidence you see.

3. I don't really see what you do. He didn't have many good plays this year. Outside of what I saw against Jacksonville (just before his injury), I can't recall more than 2 or 3 plays that I thought he "made".

4. I think we'll have to disagree. Confidence is a result of many things, but not something you are "born with". Cockyness is. Not confidence.... and there is a big difference. I played some football in my day and I can tell you that if you knock a cocky dude on his behind, he gets PISSED..... then timid. You smack a confident guy on his butt and you get this:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12034870/andrew-luck-indianapolis-colts-confusing-defenders-field-praise

Oh and we'll have to agree to disagree on the PS4 thing making you a better defensive reader. The point of view is different, the sounds are different, the situations are different, the defensive adjustments are different. It's nothing like playing. Sorry. Can't agree with you even 1% on this one.

[DarthMonk]

Tiger was mentally unreal in his prime, BUT after his Dad passed it seemed to disappear. I think his father had EVERYTHING to do with his mental advantage.

I will disagree and put my thoughts in the "Is Tiger Toast?" Thread in The Lounge.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=40364&p=649703#p649703

[RG3peat]

Id take Foles in a heartbeat....but I WOULD trade RG3 for a 1st rd pick and keep Cousins..build a team around ANY QB

[SkinsJock]

Would we trade Griffin for a 1st round pick? undoubtedly

Should we trade Griffin for a 1st round pick? unquestionably

so what - that's just argumentative and completely unrealistic


the reality is this franchise is going through a rebuilding process that is going to take a few years ...

we have time to build an offensive line and re make the defense while we are determining who is going to be the QB of the future

we do not need to make a trade Griffin at this time + we will not make a trade for Griffin unless another franchise makes us a stupid offer



we do not know for sure what we have with this QB (well those of us with any sense, do not, that's for sure)

[Bishop Hammer]

I'm just so bored with the RGIII discussion. Love him, hate him, whatever.

I assume he's going to have a chance to prove he can play this season. Time to put up or shut up.

Mate, you just took the words straight out my mouth.

[SkinsJock]

There are many here that are not understanding or really believing that this franchise is now being managed very differently

everybody, players coaches and front office staff are going to be held accountable for what they do and how well they do it
this applies to the roster make up and the guys who will be playing each and every week - huge changes are in store here ...

we have not had that happen here since Snyder took over and while I can understand that some are going to want to wait and see that things will be different, it seems fairly obvious that Scot and Jay are primarily making the decisions here and Snyder is 'supporting' this


all of the players and especially players like the QBs, that did not play even close to what was expected will be closely monitored and they will be given every chance to show that they can do better or they will be gone

there's no rush - the changes in store for this franchise are for the long term - we are not going to suddenly be much better

the process will take time but there will be very few players on this roster in 2017 that were here last season

RG3 has the same challenge as anyone else - show that you can play better or you will be gone

by the same token, there's no need to not keep players that might prove to be contributors here in 2017 and beyond

[Prowl33]

More players may be here than we think. A lot of results were bad coaching. They would rather keep players on the roster than bring in new players when possible (from FA atleast). Gruden said it best during his recent interview at the breakfast, they want to create a family atmosphere and comradary and we cant do that with a constant turning over of players.

At the same token though, if a player is given the chance and doesnt cut it, expect him to be deactivated and off the roster without hesitation.

[riggofan]

There are many here that are not understanding or really believing that this franchise is now being managed very differently

Well, this all sounds great, but personally I'd like to see the team prove it. I thought the team was planning to change how business was done when they hired Shanahan. It turns out behind the scenes things had not changed nearly as much as I had hoped.

Snyder is what he is, and I don't believe **** that Bruce Allen says. I suspect you feel the same way, SJ. Let's give the team a couple years of allowing McGloughan to do things right before we start proclaiming everything is copacetic in Ashburn.