NFL Sunday Ticket

[Deadskins]

No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

For the last time, the number of subscribers has nothing to do with the NFL's revenue, because that is determined after the rights have already been sold.

The number of subscribers has EVERYTHING to do with it. It determines how much a provider would be willing to pay the NFL for a slice of the rights. I can't imagine ANY service provider who wouldn't expect very high numbers of their customers who would want the Ticket (considering the subscription price would be much lower then, of course).

You're putting the cart before the horse. When they buy the rights, they have zero subscribers. They don't have subscribers until after they have already bought the rights. So they can't know how much they could pay yet.

One more point: In most areas, cable companies have a local monopoly. So, other than satellite, there would be no competition, and therefore they could set the price anywhere they want. You're not going to get the cost reduction you were hoping for.

[grampi]

No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

For the last time, the number of subscribers has nothing to do with the NFL's revenue, because that is determined after the rights have already been sold.

The number of subscribers has EVERYTHING to do with it. It determines how much a provider would be willing to pay the NFL for a slice of the rights. I can't imagine ANY service provider who wouldn't expect very high numbers of their customers who would want the Ticket (considering the subscription price would be much lower then, of course).

You're putting the cart before the horse. When they buy the rights, they have zero subscribers. They don't have subscribers until after they have already bought the rights. So they can't know how much they could pay yet.

One more point: In most areas, cable companies have a local monopoly. So, other than satellite, there would be no competition, and therefore they could set the price anywhere they want. You're not going to get the cost reduction you were hoping for.

You're wrong again. Do you think DTV knew how many of their customers would subscribe to the Ticket before they paid for the rights? Of course they didn't. They had to pay for the rights and then hope they'd have enough subscribers to cover what they paid and make profit. It wouldn't be any different if other providers were allowed to offer the Ticket.

Also, NO provider has a monopoly these days. Even if it appears a cable company may have a monopoly in a given area, they would still have to compete with the satellite companies as their service is available everywhere....

[DarthMonk]

This is what I'm talking about!

DarthMonk

I just moved and signed back up as a new customer. So excited to get it for free after paying like $450 a year for it.

[KazooSkinsFan]

You're wrong again. Do you think DTV knew how many of their customers would subscribe to the Ticket before they paid for the rights?

I've told you this before and you ignored it as you ignore all data that doesn't fit that you want it for free and the NFL should leave $600 million on the table.

Directtv isn't selling football to it's subscribers, they are using football to get subscribers. That is why they don't make money directly on it. If even half the subscribers are because of Sunday Ticket and they spend $100 a month, that's another $1.2 billion in revenue they are getting totaling almost $2 billion using conservative estimates. That's why they pay the most.

At the same time, by limiting the number of subscribers the NFL limits its cannibalization of ad revenue for local and national games.

If you can't demonstrate you grasp my argument and can respond to the points, then I'm not discussing it with you anymore. If I'm wrong, actually respond to the argument rather then ignoring it and repeating, "I want free stuff and I want the NFL to leave hundreds of millions on the table to give it to me" which is what your argument has been so far.

[Deadskins]

No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

For the last time, the number of subscribers has nothing to do with the NFL's revenue, because that is determined after the rights have already been sold.

The number of subscribers has EVERYTHING to do with it. It determines how much a provider would be willing to pay the NFL for a slice of the rights. I can't imagine ANY service provider who wouldn't expect very high numbers of their customers who would want the Ticket (considering the subscription price would be much lower then, of course).

You're putting the cart before the horse. When they buy the rights, they have zero subscribers. They don't have subscribers until after they have already bought the rights. So they can't know how much they could pay yet.

One more point: In most areas, cable companies have a local monopoly. So, other than satellite, there would be no competition, and therefore they could set the price anywhere they want. You're not going to get the cost reduction you were hoping for.

You're wrong again.

Oh, the irony.

Do you think DTV knew how many of their customers would subscribe to the Ticket before they paid for the rights? Of course they didn't. They had to pay for the rights and then hope they'd have enough subscribers to cover what they paid and make profit.

Obviously, but what you still are not getting is that they were paying for EXCLUSIVE rights, which means they would get ALL the subscribers who want the Ticket. And, they still don't "cover the costs" just in subscriptions to the Ticket. They make their money by selling their satellite service to new subscribers who subscribe because they want the Ticket. Do you understand this? I'm referring to two different subscriptions. A person must first subscribe to Direct TV's satellite service before they can subscribe to the Ticket. Right now, Direct TV is giving the Ticket, for free, to new subscribers of it's satellite service. That means the subscription price for the Ticket is $0, but there is still a subscription price for the satellite service, and a contract that guarantees you will keep that service for at least a year.

It wouldn't be any different if other providers were allowed to offer the Ticket.

Did I explain the difference well enough for you this time? Hint: It's that whole exclusivity thing above.

Also, NO provider has a monopoly these days. Even if it appears a cable company may have a monopoly in a given area, they would still have to compete with the satellite companies as their service is available everywhere....

Talk about reading comprehension! Check out the highlighted portion of my last post.

[Sir_Monk]

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

[DarthMonk]

Exactly! Thank you!

DarthMonk

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

If you're willing to go to that length then you can get it. I'm not dissing that. But from DirecTV's standpoint, it's not zero. You still are paying a hundred bucks give or take for the service itself.

[Sir_Monk]

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

If you're willing to go to that length then you can get it. I'm not dissing that. But from DirecTV's standpoint, it's not zero. You still are paying a hundred bucks give or take for the service itself.

No I get what your saying...still in the long run saves us some money on our bill and I can still see the Skins every week...

[Deadskins]

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

If you're willing to go to that length then you can get it. I'm not dissing that. But from DirecTV's standpoint, it's not zero. You still are paying a hundred bucks give or take for the service itself.

No I get what your saying...still in the long run saves us some money on our bill and I can still see the Skins every week...

And next year, you can do it again, reversing the roles.

[DarthMonk]

Here is the original post. It might be interesting to find real numbers like Amount Paid by DirectTV for Rights, etc. and then see how many people would have to subscribe for the Ticket and at what price in the land of "all providers carry it" with or without paying the NFL for rights and/or(or not) the NFL getting a cut of each subscription fee.

It is plausible that either system could be more profitable for the NFL. I'm thinking more people would have the Ticket if all providers carried it but that in itself doesn't necessarily make it more profitable for the NFL. There are other numbers to consider.

Once you set the parameters it's really a math problem and I have a feeling the NFL crunched their numbers ... but maybe not. Maybe they just went the simple route and get a good chunk of money with very little hassle.

DarthMonk

The NFL was smart enough to resolve the issues causing the lockout and I'm guessing their motivation was they knew they would lose far more money if there was no football this year. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they can't see how much money they're losing by keeping the NFL Sunday Ticket exclusive with DirecTV. Not only would they make a boat load more money by offering the ticket to EVERYONE by allowing ALL the service providers to offer it, this would also make it possible for these providers to compete with each other, making it possible for the price of the ticket go down for subscribers. I don't see any losers with this idea, but I also don't see why the NFL doesn't see this....

[Deadskins]

Here is the original post. It might be interesting to find real numbers like Amount Paid by DirectTV for Rights, etc. and then see how many people would have to subscribe for the Ticket and at what price in the land of "all providers carry it" with or without paying the NFL for rights and/or(or not) the NFL getting a cut of each subscription fee.

It is plausible that either system could be more profitable for the NFL. I'm thinking more people would have the Ticket if all providers carried it but that in itself doesn't necessarily make it more profitable for the NFL. There are other numbers to consider.

Once you set the parameters it's really a math problem and I have a feeling the NFL crunched their numbers ... but maybe not. Maybe they just went the simple route and get a good chunk of money with very little hassle.

DarthMonk

The NFL was smart enough to resolve the issues causing the lockout and I'm guessing their motivation was they knew they would lose far more money if there was no football this year. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they can't see how much money they're losing by keeping the NFL Sunday Ticket exclusive with DirecTV. Not only would they make a boat load more money by offering the ticket to EVERYONE by allowing ALL the service providers to offer it, this would also make it possible for these providers to compete with each other, making it possible for the price of the ticket go down for subscribers. I don't see any losers with this idea, but I also don't see why the NFL doesn't see this....

Yeah, we all read it already, and we've been arguing about it for six pages now.

[Deadskins]

Currently, American satellite provider DirecTV has exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket in the United States until the contract expires at the end of the 2014-15 season. Prior to the NFL's latest television deal, other satellite and cable providers were allowed to bid on the rights to carry NFL Sunday Ticket if they agreed to carry the NFL Network. However, DirecTV still won exclusivity for the package, bidding over $700 million a year to do so. This has long been one of DirecTV's selling points to consumers, and thus likely explains the large premium they pay for the privilege. Still, the NFL has indicated that another reason they accepted DirecTV's bid was to limit the availability of the product so that the television networks and especially their local affiliates would be protected. In particular, NFL Sunday Ticket viewers do not count towards local Nielsen ratings; thus offering NFL Sunday Ticket on cable might cost CBS and Fox affiliates millions of dollars in lost revenue from local commercial breaks (as opposed to national ads sold by the networks). In turn, affiliates help subsidize the networks' programming costs.

Since the launch of new satellites, DirecTV no longer drops other HD feeds to broadcast the NFL Sunday Ticket games in HD. It was rumored that some of NewsCorp's foreign satellite companies, such as BSkyB, would eventually offer NFL Sunday Ticket, as NewsCorp owned DirecTV at the time it reached its most recent contract for the package and has long distributed games outside North America. However, given the fact that NewsCorp sold its 40% share of DirecTV to Liberty Media in February 2008,[2] this seems increasingly unlikely.

DirecTV offers a free preview of NFL Sunday Ticket for the first week of the season.

Contract extension
On March 23, 2009, it was announced that DirecTV paid $4 billion to extend its exclusive contract for NFL Sunday Ticket until 2014. The contract extension also calls for the establishment of an online version of NFL Sunday Ticket, for customers who cannot subscribe to DirecTV by 2012 as well as a "Red Zone" channel to be carried on cable and telco television systems. So far, Cox, Golden Belt Telephone, Comcast, Dish Network, Verizon FiOS, AT&T Uverse, Blue Ridge Communications, BendBroadband and Buckeye Cable have picked up the new Red Zone channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Sunday_Ticket

Here's more:

DirecTV is partnering with Sony to bring its NFL Sunday Ticket subscription package to the PS3. This means that even if you don’t have DirecTV, you can watch every out-of-market Sunday NFL game.

NFL Sunday Ticket is a sports package that has been exclusive to DirecTV customers until now. Subscribers get access to up to 14 NFL games each Sunday. You can view games in full HD and access DirecTV’s Red Zone Channel for replays and recaps.

PS3 owners who don’t have DirecTV can subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket for $339.95. The price might sound steep, but it’s only $5 more than what DirecTV charges for the package. Plus PS3 owners don’t have to worry about setting up a dish, which is great for NFL fans who live in houses without a good line of sight to the southwestern sky, or whose buildings or neighborhoods have rules against dish ownership.

Existing DirecTV Sunday Ticket subscribers can get the package on their PS3s for $50 — in essence, turning their PS3 into an additional football receiver. That means you could watch one game on the PS3 in the den, say, and another on the DirecTV box in the living room.

The NFL joins MLB.TV and NHL GameCenter as sports options on the PS3. Major sports leagues are moving away from cable or satellite subscription packages and expanding their digital offerings to devices like the PS3, Xbox 360 and boxes like Roku and Apple TV at an increasing rate. If NBA League Pass shows up on the PS3 for the 2011-2012 season, the console could conceivably replace the cable box for fans of live sports.

http://mashable.com/2011/08/17/nfl-sunday-ticket-ps3/

[jeremyroyce]

Currently, American satellite provider DirecTV has exclusive rights to NFL Sunday Ticket in the United States until the contract expires at the end of the 2014-15 season. Prior to the NFL's latest television deal, other satellite and cable providers were allowed to bid on the rights to carry NFL Sunday Ticket if they agreed to carry the NFL Network. However, DirecTV still won exclusivity for the package, bidding over $700 million a year to do so. This has long been one of DirecTV's selling points to consumers, and thus likely explains the large premium they pay for the privilege. Still, the NFL has indicated that another reason they accepted DirecTV's bid was to limit the availability of the product so that the television networks and especially their local affiliates would be protected. In particular, NFL Sunday Ticket viewers do not count towards local Nielsen ratings; thus offering NFL Sunday Ticket on cable might cost CBS and Fox affiliates millions of dollars in lost revenue from local commercial breaks (as opposed to national ads sold by the networks). In turn, affiliates help subsidize the networks' programming costs.

Since the launch of new satellites, DirecTV no longer drops other HD feeds to broadcast the NFL Sunday Ticket games in HD. It was rumored that some of NewsCorp's foreign satellite companies, such as BSkyB, would eventually offer NFL Sunday Ticket, as NewsCorp owned DirecTV at the time it reached its most recent contract for the package and has long distributed games outside North America. However, given the fact that NewsCorp sold its 40% share of DirecTV to Liberty Media in February 2008,[2] this seems increasingly unlikely.

DirecTV offers a free preview of NFL Sunday Ticket for the first week of the season.

Contract extension
On March 23, 2009, it was announced that DirecTV paid $4 billion to extend its exclusive contract for NFL Sunday Ticket until 2014. The contract extension also calls for the establishment of an online version of NFL Sunday Ticket, for customers who cannot subscribe to DirecTV by 2012 as well as a "Red Zone" channel to be carried on cable and telco television systems. So far, Cox, Golden Belt Telephone, Comcast, Dish Network, Verizon FiOS, AT&T Uverse, Blue Ridge Communications, BendBroadband and Buckeye Cable have picked up the new Red Zone channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_Sunday_Ticket

Here's more:

DirecTV is partnering with Sony to bring its NFL Sunday Ticket subscription package to the PS3. This means that even if you don’t have DirecTV, you can watch every out-of-market Sunday NFL game.

NFL Sunday Ticket is a sports package that has been exclusive to DirecTV customers until now. Subscribers get access to up to 14 NFL games each Sunday. You can view games in full HD and access DirecTV’s Red Zone Channel for replays and recaps.

PS3 owners who don’t have DirecTV can subscribe to NFL Sunday Ticket for $339.95. The price might sound steep, but it’s only $5 more than what DirecTV charges for the package. Plus PS3 owners don’t have to worry about setting up a dish, which is great for NFL fans who live in houses without a good line of sight to the southwestern sky, or whose buildings or neighborhoods have rules against dish ownership.

Existing DirecTV Sunday Ticket subscribers can get the package on their PS3s for $50 — in essence, turning their PS3 into an additional football receiver. That means you could watch one game on the PS3 in the den, say, and another on the DirecTV box in the living room.

The NFL joins MLB.TV and NHL GameCenter as sports options on the PS3. Major sports leagues are moving away from cable or satellite subscription packages and expanding their digital offerings to devices like the PS3, Xbox 360 and boxes like Roku and Apple TV at an increasing rate. If NBA League Pass shows up on the PS3 for the 2011-2012 season, the console could conceivably replace the cable box for fans of live sports.

http://mashable.com/2011/08/17/nfl-sunday-ticket-ps3/

Wow, this thread grew pretty good. LOL. Anyways, that was pretty interested stuff. Hey, if you don't mind me asking I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

[Irn-Bru]

I haven't posted on here for a bit, but I just canceled my service with direct tv, and my wife signed up in her name. They are making me send back the receivers and the remotes, but the dish stays on the house. The guy is coming out to hook us up on Wednesday. For three days of no TV, I save the price of the Sunday Ticket, + 60 bucks a month for services for a year.

Amazing.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Once you set the parameters it's really a math problem and I have a feeling the NFL crunched their numbers ... but maybe not

It absolutely is a math problem and they absolutely crunched the numbers. Management Consulting was my background before I went entrepreneurial and doing exactly that analysis is basic operating procedure for decisions for a tiny fraction of the amount of money involved here.

[Deadskins]

I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

No. They will have to bid on a new contract like everybody else. The NFL will get an even bigger payday on the next contract.

[grampi]

I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

No. They will have to bid on a new contract like everybody else. The NFL will get an even bigger payday on the next contract.

And you can bet the price of the Ticket will just keep going up, and up, and up, and up.....

[DarthMonk]

Here is the original post. It might be interesting to find real numbers like Amount Paid by DirectTV for Rights, etc. and then see how many people would have to subscribe for the Ticket and at what price in the land of "all providers carry it" with or without paying the NFL for rights and/or(or not) the NFL getting a cut of each subscription fee.

It is plausible that either system could be more profitable for the NFL. I'm thinking more people would have the Ticket if all providers carried it but that in itself doesn't necessarily make it more profitable for the NFL. There are other numbers to consider.

Once you set the parameters it's really a math problem and I have a feeling the NFL crunched their numbers ... but maybe not. Maybe they just went the simple route and get a good chunk of money with very little hassle.

DarthMonk

The NFL was smart enough to resolve the issues causing the lockout and I'm guessing their motivation was they knew they would lose far more money if there was no football this year. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they can't see how much money they're losing by keeping the NFL Sunday Ticket exclusive with DirecTV. Not only would they make a boat load more money by offering the ticket to EVERYONE by allowing ALL the service providers to offer it, this would also make it possible for these providers to compete with each other, making it possible for the price of the ticket go down for subscribers. I don't see any losers with this idea, but I also don't see why the NFL doesn't see this....

Yeah, we all read it already, and we've been arguing about it for six pages now.

Coulda fooled me.

DarthMonk

[jeremyroyce]

I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

No. They will have to bid on a new contract like everybody else. The NFL will get an even bigger payday on the next contract.

Hey, thank you for answering my question.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

No. They will have to bid on a new contract like everybody else. The NFL will get an even bigger payday on the next contract.

And you can bet the price of the Ticket will just keep going up, and up, and up, and up.....

People love the NFL, it's called a "free market." We are forced to pay for so much crap in this country that we don't care about or even don't want. You pay thousands in hidden taxes buried in the price of everything you buy that is pissed away or even works against your interests that dwarf what directtv and sunday ticket cost. But then when you can get every NFL game for $20 a week you whine about it. Please, I wish we had more choices, not less.

[grampi]

I saw where the contract expires after the 2014-2015 season, do you think that the NFL and DirecTV will renew before the contract expires?

No. They will have to bid on a new contract like everybody else. The NFL will get an even bigger payday on the next contract.

And you can bet the price of the Ticket will just keep going up, and up, and up, and up.....

People love the NFL, it's called a "free market." We are forced to pay for so much crap in this country that we don't care about or even don't want. You pay thousands in hidden taxes buried in the price of everything you buy that is pissed away or even works against your interests that dwarf what directtv and sunday ticket cost. But then when you can get every NFL game for $20 a week you whine about it. Please, I wish we had more choices, not less.

Like I said earlier, the first season I got the Ticket (2003) it cost $159. The price has doubled in 8 years. If they think they can double the price again over the next 8 years and not lose massive numbers of subscribers, they're living in la la land.....You make it sound like it's such a bargain, which it was a pretty good deal at one time....not so much these days....and you say you wish we had more choices, not less? So do I. I wish the Ticket was available from ALL the service providers. I believe that IS more choices, not fewer....

[Deadskins]

Grampi, did you read the links I provided (especially the highlighted portions)?

[grampi]

Grampi, did you read the links I provided (especially the highlighted portions)?

Yes, and I disagree....

[Deadskins]

Grampi, did you read the links I provided (especially the highlighted portions)?

Yes, and I disagree....

With what? History?