NFL Sunday Ticket

Skinsfan55 · Post by **Skinsfan55** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:10 am

The whole problem is the NFL actually wants to limit access to Sunday Ticket. They sell it to DirecTV for about $700 million every year and since this is literally the ONLY thing DirecTV has over cable they pay it. The NFL wants an exclusive rights agreement because they are able to use it to overcharge DirecTV but also they protect their affiliates.

See, if only select consumers get the Sunday ticket, the rest of us have to watch the games on Fox and CBS. The NFL reasons that those networks would lose millions of viewers and huge points in the ratings if we all watched our favorite team instead of the local fare.

Basically, the NFL is to blame. They figure since they can gouge DirecTV for the Sunday Ticket and protect their affiliates at the same time then they have the best of both worlds. That's also why it's $300-$400. If you are buying Sunday Ticket you're paying the freight to keep the package from cable or Dish Network subscribers and pump the ratings of Fox and CBS football coverage.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:27 am

frankcal20 wrote:I do that with all my utilities like phone/internet, etc. Keep calling back until you speak with someone who'll do it. Just have to be persistent. It's not being cheap. It's being smart in my opinion. Why overpay for something when you can get it for cheaper. Just seems stupid not to try.

I think the Ticket is a great deal for what you get, it's the value for the cost. Every game for the price of two people going to one game. But maybe this is the part Trey has me on being "wealthy," I'd rather just pay it then deal with that. But if you are willing to put in the time and effort, more power to you, my friend.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:58 am

C'mon. You cancel then get the wife to subscribe in HER name. Free NFL Ticket. Do it again next year and switch to your name but use middle name not first. Repeat ad infinitum. Been doing it for years. The tech laughs every time. I'm now using 2 initials with last name. Will start using children.

Watch 'Skins online if necessary.

DarthMonlk

grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I read that it's free now, for DTV subscribers.

Maybe for NEW subscribers, but all us loyal subscribers get is slapped in the face with a higher price every year....

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:50 pm

DarthMonk wrote:C'mon. You cancel then get the wife to subscribe in HER name. Free NFL Ticket. Do it again next year and switch to your name but use middle name not first. Repeat ad infinitum. Been doing it for years. The tech laughs every time. I'm now using 2 initials with last name. Will start using children.

Watch 'Skins online if necessary.

DarthMonlk

grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I read that it's free now, for DTV subscribers.

Maybe for NEW subscribers, but all us loyal subscribers get is slapped in the face with a higher price every year....

Have you been able to use your old equipment when you do this, or do they require that you pay for new stuff?

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:21 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I think the Ticket is a great deal for what you get, it's the value for the cost. Every game for the price of two people going to one game.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another. When the Skins' games are nationally televised, or locally televised by virtue of playing a team that's covered locally, then the game is free. The Ticket doesn't seem like much of a bargain when you look at it this way....

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:55 pm

grampi wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:I think the Ticket is a great deal for what you get, it's the value for the cost. Every game for the price of two people going to one game.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another. When the Skins' games are nationally televised, or locally televised by virtue of playing a team that's covered locally, then the game is free. The Ticket doesn't seem like much of a bargain when you look at it this way....

I already addressed this above:

kaz wrote:If you're going to ask why it's televised locally free, keep in mind local stations are paid for commercials to air during that time. You're not likely to go to DC area businesses living in Maine, they don't want to pay for your eyeballs.

Ad time is split between the local station and the national network. Companies are paying to advertise, that's why it's "free." When you get a game in another market that's not national, they aren't getting either revenue. Everything has to be paid for somehow. You're still asking for someone else to pay for you. People are excited when we sign big name players then complain when there are costs to customers. You can't have the premium sports league without premium prices. I still say a full season for the price of two to go to one game is a very good value.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 2:20 pm

It's a false analogy, Kaz. The game is being broadcast anyway. There is no additional cost to the broadcaster, nor the NFL if the overflow is committed to a satelite feed that is being paid for by me. There is no additional expense to these advertizers... and many, in fact, WOULD enjoy the additional exposure outside of their normal markets... at no expense to themselves.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:06 pm

Countertrey wrote:It's a false analogy, Kaz. The game is being broadcast anyway. There is no additional cost to the broadcaster, nor the NFL if the overflow is committed to a satelite feed that is being paid for by me. There is no additional expense to these advertizers... and many, in fact, WOULD enjoy the additional exposure outside of their normal markets... at no expense to themselves.

If everything else were equal, that's true, but it's not.

Say there's Pat who lives in DC and is a Patriot fan. You don't have to pay for Sunday Ticket and you can watch the Skins, Pat can watch the Patriots and not have to pay for Sunday Ticket.

The DC station loses Pat as a potential viewer and the Maine advertisers lose you. DC advertisers may like getting you for free, but not when they lose Pat because ad revenue goes down by trading a potential customer (Pat) in exchange for you who are not a potential customer, you live in Maine. Then NFL revenue goes down because the ratings that matter are lower.

By charging for Sunday Ticket, the NFL gets your revenue and you get the game you want. Seems like a fair swap to me.

This is the heart of the NFL business. They are not only the top football league, they are the top sports league. People expect and get the best athletes in the world. The NFL has to pay for that, and they do. 16 games, a payroll alone of about $8 million a game. Big money. They have to turn around then and pursue every revenue stream possible.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:17 am

The value of the Ticket is even less when you figure in all the games that will be either natioanally, or locally televised. That number is usually about half the games, so we're basically paying about $37.50 per game. I think that's way too much....

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:34 am

Kaz uses fuzzy math:

The DC station loses Pat as a potential viewer and the Maine advertisers lose you. DC advertisers may like getting you for free, but not when they lose Pat because ad revenue goes down by trading a potential customer (Pat) in exchange for you who are not a potential customer, you live in Maine. Then NFL revenue goes down because the ratings that matter are lower.

This is not true. I am a Redskins fan... not, necessarily, a football fan (I trust the distinction is not lost). This means that I do not watch the Patriots... unless they happen to be playing the Redskins. Nor, do I watch whatever bone our local Fox affiliate decides not to filter out in lieu of infomercials.

We are not currently viewers to lose, therefore, cannot be a hit on the ratings... beyond that, the NFL and DirecTV would still have the ability to overlay adds from additional national markets, thereby adding value. THAT would be fair...

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:39 pm

grampi wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:I think the Ticket is a great deal for what you get, it's the value for the cost. Every game for the price of two people going to one game.

That's one way to look at it. Here's another. When the Skins' games are nationally televised, or locally televised by virtue of playing a team that's covered locally, then the game is free. The Ticket doesn't seem like much of a bargain when you look at it this way....

I completely understand this point of view. But, what about people where they live they don't get to see their team locally alot? Maybe 3-5 games a year? In, my opinion this is a good deal. Especially for people who can't get enough football.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:11 pm

I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:50 am

Countertrey wrote:Kaz uses fuzzy math:
The DC station loses Pat as a potential viewer and the Maine advertisers lose you. DC advertisers may like getting you for free, but not when they lose Pat because ad revenue goes down by trading a potential customer (Pat) in exchange for you who are not a potential customer, you live in Maine. Then NFL revenue goes down because the ratings that matter are lower.

This is not true. I am a Redskins fan... not, necessarily, a football fan (I trust the distinction is not lost). This means that I do not watch the Patriots... unless they happen to be playing the Redskins. Nor, do I watch whatever bone our local Fox affiliate decides not to filter out in lieu of infomercials.

We are not currently viewers to lose, therefore, cannot be a hit on the ratings... beyond that, the NFL and DirecTV would still have the ability to overlay adds from additional national markets, thereby adding value. THAT would be fair...

You took my point wayyyyy too literally when you thought I was just referring to you. A quick internet search said in 2009 there were 2 million fans who spent $600 million on superfan. And if I recall correctly DirectTV said they paid more then they collected to the NFL, they do it to sell satellite service not the NFL.

$600 million isn't just chump change and 2 million people willing to pay $300+ to watch football games clearly are going to impact local ratings even if each and every one of them won't watch the local game.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:56 am

grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy

You want football without paying for it and they want to charge for the service they provide, which makes them greedy. I can't see it that way. I love it, that's all I can say. I get 17 weekends of any NFL game I want to see including every snap of every Redskin game for about $20 a week. I just can't see complaining about that. I'm totally out of the grind of being stuck with the local sucky team. I get every game every week to chose from.

Trey can say it's because I'm "wealthy" but I my argument is it's a great value. I do understand though I don't even notice spending $300 from my budget and some say it's a big deal. All I can say is the NFL is an uber expensive enterprise to run, and it has to be paid for somehow. It's going to cost money. The only reason games are free on TV is they narrow the choices to local teams and they are paid for by local businesses or national attraction games are paid for by national businesses. But none of it's free, someone is paying.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:36 am

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy

You want football without paying for it and they want to charge for the service they provide, which makes them greedy. I can't see it that way. I love it, that's all I can say. I get 17 weekends of any NFL game I want to see including every snap of every Redskin game for about $20 a week. I just can't see complaining about that. I'm totally out of the grind of being stuck with the local sucky team. I get every game every week to chose from.

Trey can say it's because I'm "wealthy" but I my argument is it's a great value. I do understand though I don't even notice spending $300 from my budget and some say it's a big deal. All I can say is the NFL is an uber expensive enterprise to run, and it has to be paid for somehow. It's going to cost money. The only reason games are free on TV is they narrow the choices to local teams and they are paid for by local businesses or national attraction games are paid for by national businesses. But none of it's free, someone is paying.

I certainly understand the NFL is an expensive enterprise to run, but you didn't address my earlier statement. The NFL got along just fine without the revenues from the NFL Sunday Ticket before it was available. How was that possible if the revenues from the Ticket are so sorely needed? I can answer that for you. The revenues AREN'T NEEDED, they're simply a profiteering avenue for the league...

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:20 pm

How did they do it? They played and broadcast fewer games and paid the players a LOT less.

Which isn't to say that you're not right. The NFL are being greedy. They'd call it 'maximizing revenue' and it's the same thing. Pricing some people out of the market is usually one of the results. I don't like it, I won't pay for it, and hope the tide turns. But arguing that a corporation shouldn't try to grow is futile, however just it may be.

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:24 pm

Countertrey wrote:Considering that I should be able to pay a 5 or 6 dollar/month premium and be able to elect the DC Fox and CBS affiliates... yeah, it's expensive. When it IS available on a DirecTV feed other than their Sunday Ticket package... they black it out. That, sir, is a load. If you were not wealthy, you'd be equally ripped.

This, on the other hand, deserves special notice. What games you get to watch in a specific area is decided by the NFL, and the media companies that license the TV rights (corporations all). What on earth are you suggesting the Federal government has to do with that?

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:53 pm

The NFL is a business. They have the right to decide how to market their product. You have the right to decide if it is worth the cost.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:58 pm

Paralis wrote:
Countertrey wrote:Considering that I should be able to pay a 5 or 6 dollar/month premium and be able to elect the DC Fox and CBS affiliates... yeah, it's expensive. When it IS available on a DirecTV feed other than their Sunday Ticket package... they black it out. That, sir, is a load. If you were not wealthy, you'd be equally ripped.

This, on the other hand, deserves special notice. What games you get to watch in a specific area is decided by the NFL, and the media companies that license the TV rights (corporations all). What on earth are you suggesting the Federal government has to do with that?

If you elect to actually read what I am writing, you will see that I am specifically suggesting that I should be able to purchase a DirecTV package that would let me elect what local channels I watch... that IS currently prohibited by the FCC, in some misguided effort to protect small market television stations... this has nothing to do with what local market games the NFL foists on us, and is separate from living in the broadcast area where the local Fox affiliate would rather broadcast infomercials than a regionally offered games.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:48 am

FYI
its not free ..... clever wording to get people to call and ask ... then they try to sell it to you. had it for the last 13 years and they wouldn't let me get it free or at reduced price.

DarthMonk · Post by **DarthMonk** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:47 pm

Countertrey wrote:
DarthMonk wrote:C'mon. You cancel then get the wife to subscribe in HER name. Free NFL Ticket. Do it again next year and switch to your name but use middle name not first. Repeat ad infinitum. Been doing it for years. The tech laughs every time. I'm now using 2 initials with last name. Will start using children.

Watch 'Skins online if necessary.

DarthMonlk

grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:I read that it's free now, for DTV subscribers.

Maybe for NEW subscribers, but all us loyal subscribers get is slapped in the face with a higher price every year....

Have you been able to use your old equipment when you do this, or do they require that you pay for new stuff?

This dish itself has never moved and the hardware in the house is taken out before the summer and replaced after. The only fees have been monthly. I've played them off against Verizon and have also wrangled free TV Japan for the wife and kids. I also given them referrals for a free month here and there.

DarthMonk

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:08 am

grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:12 am

Deadskins wrote:
grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

Who sets the price for the exclusive rights to the Ticket?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:19 am

grampi wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

Who sets the price for the exclusive rights to the Ticket?

Seriously, why should a business not charge for their services?

I get Sunday ticket

I watch the games

I pay for it

I'm not seeing the issue.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:11 pm

grampi wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

Who sets the price for the exclusive rights to the Ticket?

The market. DirectTV outbid the competition. So you expect the NFL to say: "No, please don't offer us more money; we have enough revenue already, and don't want to appear greedy."? Anyway, TV revenues are used to set the salary cap. So the players get more money too.