2-14 = Andrew Luck Our Future QB

jeremyroyce · Post by **jeremyroyce** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:32 am

Red_One43 wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy

I have three words for you...mess age board... What is so complicated about this? And if someone comes onto THE HOGS a Washington Redskin FAN site and trashes our team, we have the right to question anything we want.

First off I apologize because there was a post written by RedskinsRule56 that I didn't see prior to me writing my post so once again I apologize. But, with that being said I understand where y'all are coming from, however I understand where RedskinsRule56 is coming from in most of his posts and from what I read he makes a good, legitimate argument in most of those posts. Look, I understand that this is a message board, but he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion without getting trashed.

He and anybody else on this board does have their opinion, but he and anybody else on this board reaps what he sows. You reap what you sow. That one might be a bit overused. Personally, I like this one for the occasion:

But seriously, you post extreme positions then don't like getting a response? You kinda, gotta, choose my friend...
- Kaz 8/22/2011

Dude, get real. This is a message board and someone stated an opinion. What is this you reap what you sow garbage? And you post extreme positions and then you don't like the response crap? What's the point to this message board if all your gonna do is punk people around for having an opinion. What, because it's different then what your opinion is? So, what. Okay, so they have a different opinion then you. Big whoop dee doo. Once again the message board is for people who come together to share their beliefs and their opinion without getting people punkin them around.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:20 am

One thread on this ridiculous topic wasn't enough?

I doubt the mods can do it but this thread really needs to be moved to [url]wwww.thehugoawards.org[/url] so they can recognize the post for what they are; fantasy writing.

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:48 am

jeremyroyce wrote:
Red_One43 wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, you have no right questioning someone's fanhood, especially if you have never met this guy

I have three words for you...mess age board... What is so complicated about this? And if someone comes onto THE HOGS a Washington Redskin FAN site and trashes our team, we have the right to question anything we want.

First off I apologize because there was a post written by RedskinsRule56 that I didn't see prior to me writing my post so once again I apologize. But, with that being said I understand where y'all are coming from, however I understand where RedskinsRule56 is coming from in most of his posts and from what I read he makes a good, legitimate argument in most of those posts. Look, I understand that this is a message board, but he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion without getting trashed.

He and anybody else on this board does have their opinion, but he and anybody else on this board reaps what he sows. You reap what you sow. That one might be a bit overused. Personally, I like this one for the occasion:

But seriously, you post extreme positions then don't like getting a response? You kinda, gotta, choose my friend...
- Kaz 8/22/2011

Dude, get real. This is a message board and someone stated an opinion. What is this you reap what you sow garbage? And you post extreme positions and then you don't like the response crap? What's the point to this message board if all your gonna do is punk people around for having an opinion. What, because it's different then what your opinion is? So, what. Okay, so they have a different opinion then you. Big whoop dee doo. Once again the message board is for people who come together to share their beliefs and their opinion without getting people punkin them around.

Jeremy,
i'm with Kaz. If you come here posting works of fiction or if you really want the team to have its worst season EVER just so they can draft one player that may or may not work out for whomever would replace MS as HC, then i say you are asking for what you get.

There are plenty of great sites that are dedicated to people that wan to post comments about fantasy writing or other works of fiction. What RR56 is prposing is better suited for one of those sites.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:18 am

jeremyroyce wrote:Dude, get real. This is a message board and someone stated an opinion. What is this you reap what you sow garbage? And you post extreme positions and then you don't like the response crap? What's the point to this message board if all your gonna do is punk people around for having an opinion. What, because it's different then what your opinion is?

You make it sound like all opinions are created equal. That's nice, but just not true. Opinions typically get trashed here when there aren't very good arguments in favor of them, not just because they are different.

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:18 am

Nope.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:54 am

Getting a great QB is not a guarantee for success - short term or long term
This franchise was in a really bad way when these guys came in - they need time
I understand that you might not think that these guys can get the job done but they are here - they have made progress

I do not think the best plan for this franchise is to have the franchise lose every game to ensure we get Andrew Luck
Even if Luck is better than Peyton Manning or the best QB EVER - he still needs a supporting cast and he needs a good HC

If we let you or I run things like a fantasy football team we might get lucky once in a while
This FO is putting together a team that will be consistently competitive each week

We will be a better team if we continue down this path - we are already seeing some encouraging signs
we are scrapping any progress we have made if we lose the coaches and some good players that will not suit what your FO wants to try here

IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO THROW EVERYTHING AWAY

You might not like this FO but this FO is a lot better than what we had

sounds like you and Jeremy are on the same page - I'm DEFINETLY not into reading that book :wink:

the good news for many here and the bad news for you and Jeremy is that this FO and these players are NOT going to let this franchise have the worst record in the NFL

I still cannot fathom a person can claim to be a 'diehard fan' - then say that the best thing for the franchise would be to have the worst record in the NFL

NOT ONLY THAT - but to IMPLY that this HC might even be doing it on purpose
THAT"S IDIOTIC

that just does not make sense - and neither does this thread

I guess I'm contributing to the stupidity

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:16 am

jeremyroyce wrote:he and anybody else on this board does have their opinion and they should be able to post their opinion...

Totally agree

jeremyroyce wrote:...without getting trashed

Totally disagree. Explain why he gets to post any opinion he wants, including trashing the team this board is set up for fans of, and we're required to be silent. I do not get that at all in any way and you keep repeating but not explaining why he has the right to express his view and we do not have the right to express ours.

skins2357 · Post by **skins2357** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:55 am

OK, we all agree that we are not going to be bad enough to pick Luck on our own (except this guy), but what would you give up to move up to get him. Im thinking it would take our 1st rounder this year, 1st rounder next year and a 2nd this year. Does that sound accurate? Would you do it?

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:00 am

skins2357 wrote:OK, we all agree that we are not going to be bad enough to pick Luck on our own (except this guy), but what would you give up to move up to get him. Im thinking it would take our 1st rounder this year, 1st rounder next year and a 2nd this year. Does that sound accurate? Would you do it?

If Luck is everything that peoplpe say he is, than yes. You make that trade....,I'd make that trade. Beck is 30, low mileage and let's assume he pans out and is a capable starter. Luck basically becomes Aaron Rodgers and you let him sit. Don't rush him, don't press him, just let him adjust. Hand that man a clipboard and when the sun sets on Beck, we have our QB for the next 10 years primed and ready.

PAPDOG67 · Post by **PAPDOG67** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:00 am

Like the old saying goes.....opinions are like ---holes. Everyone has one, and they generally all stink.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:06 am

Agree CLL.

As for trade value, we're in an area of unknowns. See in years past, there were high signing bonus being paid out to unproven first round talent. Well now with the rookie pay scale, I think that it's going to drive UP the value of a trade. So it may take 2 1st round picks and a 2nd to move up to get that guy. But really it's tough to assume b/c it depends on where you're drafting at, etc.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:22 am

Shoooooot, we're winning the SB this year so this is pointless.

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:32 am

SkinsJock wrote:Getting a great QB is not a guarantee for success - short term or long term
This franchise was in a really bad way when these guys came in - they need time
I understand that you might not think that these guys can get the job done but they are here - they have made progress

I do not think the best plan for this franchise is to have the franchise lose every game to ensure we get Andrew Luck
Even if Luck is better than Peyton Manning or the best QB EVER - he still needs a supporting cast and he needs a good HC

If we let you or I run things like a fantasy football team we might get lucky once in a while
This FO is putting together a team that will be consistently competitive each week

We will be a better team if we continue down this path - we are already seeing some encouraging signs
we are scrapping any progress we have made if we lose the coaches and some good players that will not suit what your FO wants to try here

IT JUST DOES NOT MAKE SENSE TO THROW EVERYTHING AWAY

You might not like this FO but this FO is a lot better than what we had

sounds like you and Jeremy are on the same page - I'm DEFINETLY not into reading that book

the good news for many here and the bad news for you and Jeremy is that this FO and these players are NOT going to let this franchise have the worst record in the NFL

I still cannot fathom a person can claim to be a 'diehard fan' - then say that the best thing for the franchise would be to have the worst record in the NFL

NOT ONLY THAT - but to IMPLY that this HC might even be doing it on purpose
THAT"S IDIOTIC

that just does not make sense - and neither does this thread

I guess I'm contributing to the stupidity

Agreed, that you are contributing to the stupidity, and to your post

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:38 am

Based on history, I believe Shannahan won't stretch to get a QB. That's all I'm adding to this pointless thread a YEAR before next years draft. Comment all you want, I won't read it, but this thread is non-sense. We haven't even finished preseason and we're talking about next years draft. What a waste of two minutes.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:44 am

RedskinsRule56 wrote:Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:00 pm Post subject:
OK ... lets keep doing things the way we have been doing them since 1993. Let me remind you and everyone else that we have won 2 playoff games since then.

OK - this FO has only been here for 1 season and 2 drafts

This FO has made some mistakes but the EVIDENCE is fairly clear that we are making progress

what you & Jeremy are suggesting will almost certainly mean that we will lose both coaches & players and start from scratch

Do you really think that we all should agree with you and Jeremy and take the chance that Luck is going to be the best QB EVER and the players and coaches that we bring in will mean we have a chance to be in the playoffs next season

WITH THIS FO in charge, PLUS another draft like the last one, and free agency - the chances of being in the playoffs in 2012 are pretty good

PLUS - these guys are not just trying to make the playoffs
they are building a foundation to ensure we go to the playoffs each year

what you and Jeremy are hoping for and suggesting just does not make sense

you cannot really think that this is a good plan for this franchise - it's just a STUPID 'idea'

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:47 am

SkinsJock wrote:OK - this FO has only been here for 1 season and 2 drafts

Exactly. The people who insist on endlessly hanging the baggage on every coach we get of every failure since 1993 are intellectually challenged. I'm sure they'd accept that being done to them, right Jock? Well, sure, you're new in this job, but the last 5 people screwed up so we're blaming you now! Right, they'd accept that....

markshark84 · Post by **markshark84** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:06 pm

Wow. I guess RR56 got the reaction he was looking for........ :roll:

While I do not doubt that RR56 is a loyal skins fan, I don't think it is ever a good thing to tank a season for one player. If they were to do that, what type of message would it send to the other members of the team?? -- most likely that they are not integral to the success of the team. Sure, I think that Luck is going to be a great QB -- perhaps even a franchise QB, but no one player is worth throwing a season for.

In my experiences playing sports, I found losing to be similar to a disease. Once you have it, it is very difficult to shake. I have been a player on 1-10 teams, city championship teams, and even a nationally ranked top 10 college team -- it is all the same. The more you win, the easier it gets -- the more you lose, the harder it gets to win. You don't want to infect 99% of your team with loseritis, just so you can draft an unproven rookie QB that may or may not be the answers to your problems. The chips will fall were they are supposed to. Personally, I think there are 2 good QBs in the upcoming draft (there may be more but we'll have to see how the college season plays out). If need be, we can trade up. It may cost us a couple first rounders, but we'll let the FO decide what he's worth.

langleyparkjoe · Post by **langleyparkjoe** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:25 pm

I personally blame Spurrier for what happened last year.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:06 pm

It's IMPOSSIBLE to imagine that anyone could consider that a HC or an owner of an NFL franchise would not do EVERYTHING they can to be successful

DOING EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING TO BE SUCCESSFUL includes the STUPID notion that an owner or a HC would consider doing whatever it takes to ensure failure on the field SO they could select a player in the next draft

THAT IS JUST STUPID

I'm done here - this is a waste of time

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:21 pm

FIrst of all this team does not need to tank as LaVar Arrington said on the radio "They tank naturally." As I have previously stated this is a 4-6 win team this year and I think that is largely in fact due to us playing a schedule that includes Carolina, Buffalo, Seattle, Arizona, SF, Miami and Minnesota. We are finally rebuilding this franchise which has been long overdue.

What I am saying is I accept as a realistic fan and one who studies the NFL relentlessly based upon our teams lack of talent and obvious holes on our roster that we are a 4-6 win team. Regardless of how many people on this board are going to pop a boner for Chris Chester who is a career backup for the Ravens and has only started as many games as he had due to injuries to Jared Gaither. I have seen Chester play and he is terrible he is not much of an upgrade over Casey Rabach who was one of the worst centers in the NFL Last year.

Our offensive line gave up 110 QB hits last year the most in the NFL and 46 sacks and we are returning the same offensive line that started most of last season except for the addition of Chester. We have an unproven running game and our #2 WR going into this season is Jabar Gaffney? Well that beats a washed up 38 year old Joey Galloway last year who MS brought in (who many of you appoint as a coach we have to keep) 12 total catches until he was demoted behind Armstrong and eventually cut. Santana Moss is no longer a #1 WR in this league he is 32 years old and does not have the explosiveness he once had. I realize he caught 93 balls last year but he also ranked top 10 in drops and is a injured hammy away from being out of the lineup. Cool

ey's knee might never be right this year and I realize that Fred Davis can step in and produce but if we lose Cool

ey and or he is not 100% this year that will be a huge blow to an offense that already lacks playmakers. John Beck who the Shanahan clowns are in love with. Who Frankly flat out sucks. 2 of the best NFL personnel evaluators Bill Parcells and Ozzie Newsome said no thanks on Beck to even being on their respective rosters. They both said he wasnt good enough to be even a 2nd or 3rd string QB and the Shanahans think he can be an effective starting QB? Is this some sort of joke? The Ravens traded John Beck to us essentially for a sack of nickels ala Doug Dutch a corner who was on our practice squad and is now out of the NFL. I fully trust Ozzie Newsome and Bill Parcells in their abilities to evaluate talent.

Our offense scored 18.9 pts per game last year I realistically expect us to average around 16 pts a game this year. No team in the NFL will win very many games with such a putrid offense unless you have the 1885 Bears or the 2000 Ravens Defense. (SORRY everyone but there is no way possible that we will have a defense like that)

Instead of winning those 4-6 games win 2 and land Andrew Luck. This season as many of you can not accept is really over before it even has started and that is fine. I will take one more awful year in order to gain a valuable addition in Andrew Luck to build around. Which in the future we will have a much higher chance of being a playoff and SuperBowl contender. Ofcourse you need more than just a franchise QB to do this. In order for that to happen Daniel Snyder needs to not meddle, (I still believe to some extent he does) We need to have continuity with our coaching staff and establish a team identity. (Many posters on here are assuming that we MS, KS, Haslett and possibly also Bruce Allen will be canned if we go 2-14 this. I actually think that is false. I also have no idea why many of you posters are so sold on this coaching staff as being the future staff of the Redskins. We need to build through the draft and to sign FA's that only fit our scheme. Do not mold players into the scheme you want to play, only bring in players that are comfortable in your scheme. We need to add youth which we finally done, more depth and not have any team cancers in the locker room (Ala Haynesworthless). That is how you're sucessful in the NFL. Many of you posters pointed to Dan Marino who is obviously one of the best QB's of all time as never having one of a ring. Let me ask you something was that Marino's fault they never won a ring? OR did their GM and NFL personnel not put enough talent around Marino to win one? I will point out that Dan never had a solid RB. The answer is obvious. Marino gave them every chance to win a ring, it was their football personnel staff that failed them.

One poster discussed how our 3-4 defense is close to becoming a top 10 defense in this league? I am sorry to burst your bubble but currently there is no concrete evidence and/or justifiable facts to support that claim. Let me remind you that it was Haslett's decision to switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and last year it was a disaster as we ranked 31st in yards allowed in the NFL. Many of you will say we did not have the right personnel to play in a 3-4 last year with guys like Haynesworthless and declining Andre Carter that is fine I agree with you. However just because we signed an undersized NT in Barry Cofield who has not played NT since college does not mean he will become an instant force at the position. Then lets look at Stephen Bowen who in limited starting time due to an injury to Marcus Spears played solid for the cowboys. Lets see how he does a full time starter. We only had 29 sacks as a team last year where is the pass rush going to come from outside of Orapko and Carriker? No one knows how Kerrigan will play as a rookie? Keep in mind again another player at Iowa who played in a 4-3 is now switching over to a 3-4. London Fletcher is a beast but now at 36 years old he will eventually slow down and we only resigned Rocky McIntosh out of desperation because our genius Defensive coordinator (Insert Sarcasm here) Deemed Perry Riley unready to start. Landry achilles is still acting up and if he is missing from our secondary we are really in trouble there. OJ Atowge is a nice addition and obviously an upgrade over crappy Kareem Moore and Chris Horton. Lets also keep in mind that we have De'Angelo Hall as our #1 Corner which he hardly is. Lets face the facts on MeAngelo Hall last year statistically he gave up the 3rd Most, let me repeat that the 3rd most yards of any corner in the league last year. QB's know they can abuse him because of all the gambles he takes which leads to an inflated # of Picks for him and why some fans are all on his jockstrap. He can't cover and is a joke as a tackler. Josh Wilson was a very solid signing by the best FA signing we had. No knocks on that.

Overall it is asking a lot for a defense with limited practice time due to the lockout and 5 new starters to instantly gel and be successful.

One finally note we have decided to bring back Graham Gano who missed the most FG's in the NFL last year. For an offense that is going to struggle to score TD's it certainly isn't going to help to have a unreliable and crappy kicker.

2-14 Bank it.

HarleyHog · Post by **HarleyHog** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:45 pm

langleyparkjoe wrote:Shoooooot, we're winning the SB this year so this is pointless.

And Luck will fall to us with the 32nd pick ...

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:56 pm

No freagin way does this team go 2-14. There is too much talent to go 2-14. Our running game should be hitting on all cylinders. We also have plenty of talent on the defensive side.

Regardless of record our FO will go after a QB. (I believe)
However it may or may not be Andrew Luck. Good news is there are more good prospects in this upcoming draft. So there will be more to choose from.

Andrew Luck QB Stanford, Matt Barkley QB USC and Landry Jones QB OKlahoma. Every single one of these guys are tall with big arms playing in pro style offenses.

absinthe1023 · Post by **absinthe1023** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 3:37 pm

Regardless of whether or not you think the OP has a point, criticizing his fanhood based solely on an opinion he has expressed is ludicrous and actually falls under the aegis of a personal attack.

His overall main points are sound. How many teams really succeed without an excellent QB in the modern NFL? Are you really willing to sacrifice the potential of a decade's worth of dominant QB play for another season as a nonfactor/laughingstock?

On the other hand, I don't think it is at all practical to suggest that 53 professional athletes and an entire coaching staff could or would willfully throw a season by performing poorly intentionally. The risk of injury would be too great for the players, who would refuse to jeopardize their longterm health.

I also think there are several other points that aren't being widely considered:

A season with Beck/Grossman at the helm could easily result in a 2-14 or 3-13 record without any form of tanking. How many division games do you really think the 'Skins will win?

A perceived "order to tank" would probably be ordered by ownership, so an atrociously bad season would not necessarily cost the heads of the Shanahans or Allen

Hypothetically speaking, if the 'Skins decide to pursue Luck, wouldn't you rather see the 'Skins draft him for the cost of a single (first overall) first round pick, rather than mortgage even more of the future by having to offer multiple first round picks and possibly players in order to move up? Is that an acceptable price to pay for the "benefit" of winning 6-8 games this season?

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:04 pm

RedskinsRule56 wrote:
Santana Moss is no longer a #1 WR in this league he is 32 years old

Even though he was in the top 5 in receptions and top 10 for NFL WR in yards? So that would tell me either you don't believe in performance over style or you just think there are only 9 #1 WR in the NFL.

You can't be in the top ten in catches and yards and NOT BE A #1 WR!!!!!

This stuff pisses me off, people consistantly say he is not a #1, yet year, after year, after year he is in the top half of NFL WRs.

Face it, HE IS A #1 WR.

RedskinsRule56 wrote:I realize he caught 93 balls last year

True, only WRs to have more were Roddy White and Reggie Wayne

RedskinsRule56 wrote:but he also ranked top 10 in drops

False, 25 other nfl players had more drops than him. Unless, 25 is the new 10, YOU ARE WRONG [/quote]

RedskinsRule56 wrote: and is a injured hammy away from being out of the lineup.

isn't that true for every NFL player?

RedskinsRule56 wrote: ey's knee might never be right this year

and his knee bothered him all year last year; yet only one NFL TE caught more than his 77 balls and only two TEs had more yards - how he didn't make the PB is beyond me?

RedskinsRule56 wrote: and I realize that Fred Davis can step in and produce

exactly

RedskinsRule56 wrote:but if we lose ey and or he is not 100% this year that will be a huge blow to an offense that already lacks playmakers.

He was hurt all last year and still produced at a PB level, but as you stated we do have the Davis

I don't know how many game we will win but I quarantee it will be above six! I think the over 6.5 games on the over/under is the safest bet in Vegas and anyone going there should place every disposable cent they have on the over and play the very high odds that they will win that bet.

This team simply is not a 4-6 win team. I'm kind of with you on the OL. I don't think they have improved as much as everyone else thinks they did, but I don think they improved and you would have to be insane to think they haven't

They're better at RB, better at WR, better at OL, better at DL, better at LB, better a DB, and better at punter, and our Kicker SEEMS to have everything in one sock for a change.

AND I think we will be better at QB (we will have to see).

AND statistically our schedule is one of the softest in the NFL (even though you never know how that will play out) We play the NFC West for the gods sake. That should be four wins. We always split with the EGirls and Cowgirls and I think we will finally take one from the Gnats (because they have had a ROUGH offseason).

No way win win less than 7 games and that would be a let down.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:14 pm

absinthe1023 wrote:Regardless of whether or not you think the OP has a point, criticizing his fanhood based solely on an opinion he has expressed is ludicrous and actually falls under the aegis of a personal attack.

If it acts like a Cowboy fan, quacks like a Cowboy fan, then ....