Wahoo McDaniels wrote:
What? I have shown you your premise is dead wrong. How am I changing the argument? Your initial argument was that MOST "top QBs" are found in the 1st half of the 1st round. I just proved to you it wasn't true in the previous post where I showed that most of the leaders in QB Rating were drafted outside the 1st round and just as many were undrafted. Now I just showed that MOST of the starting QBs are not Top Half of 1st Round guys.
Oh, so now it's no longer "Top QB" it's most FRANCHISE QBs are drafted in the 1st half of the 1st round. Stick to an argument. Don't change it every time you're previous assertion is disproved. <snip>
Give me YOUR definition of a FRANCHISE QB and then let's see if we can disprove this one too. Let me guess, in order to be deemed a FRANCHISE QB by Countertrey you must meet the following entry criteria: be drafted in the first half of the 1st round.
Nice job revising my premise... My initial post on this topic:
Vet's point should not be overlooked.
When is the last time the Redskins drafted a true "franchise" quarterback?
While we hope that it will work out, the more successful McNabb is, the less likely we are to find that future franchise quarterback in the draft.
My SECOND post on this topic:
Just curious, chief... who do you consider those franchise quarterbacks to have been.
In my mind, there have been only 3 franchise quarterbacks in Redskins history...Jurgensen
The Little General
Slingin' Sammy.
Maybe you could squeeze in Theisman...
Only Labaron and Baugh were drafted... that means that
the Redskins have not drafted a franchise quarterback since 1950... IMHO.
We have had many quality quarterbacks, but few were drafted
. There were a couple who shone brightly but briefly (Rypien) there were occasional journeymen who grabbed the golden ring (Doug Williams and[almost] Billy Kilmer), but there were boneheads who liked to headbutt concrete (Schraeder) and who just couldn't figure out the pro game (Shuler). Trent Edwards was drafted... and, except for a devastating injury, might have become the franchise quarterback... for the St. Louis Rams...
There were unfortunates who either came along at the wrong time and were destroyed by the coach alone (Ramsey) or through a frustrating confluence of scheme, talent, leadership, and mind just never matching up (Campbell). The Redskins history with Quarterbacks had been truly, Boom or Bust.
At this point, it should be clear that I am specifically talking about
FRANCHISE quarterbacks, AND that franchise quarterbacks are something MORE than starting, or even top quarterbacks (unless, apparently, you are into revising the clear line of thought of a poster...
). It should also be clear that I AM NOT SAYING that you can't find "quality" quarterbacks later in the draft...
Then, YOU decide to enter the discussion:
First of all, McNabb isn't a "Franchise QB".
Do you care, at this point, to identify where I said he IS? (though I would argue that he could make a strong claim of such in Philly)
You go on...
If he was, his last franchise, a hated NFC East rival, would have kept him.
Of course, we know my response to this... somehow, though, that it was 44 years ago, it makes a difference... interesting... Yet, 44 years ago, the Eagles traded an exceptional quarterback to the Redskins... We already know how that story ends.
Second, draft position means nothing as to whether you'll find a Franchise QB or not.
Here are the top passers in the league last year...how many were Top 10 picks?
Hmmm... Top passers... hmmm... WHO's ARGUMENT IS THIS??? Certainly, not mine.
So, yes, it does appear that someone was twisting the topic here...
My next point is...:
Second, despite your assertions, most top quarterbacks are found in the top half of the first round. Period. The Tom Brady's and the Kurt Warners of the world are the exceptions.
Would you assert otherwise????
The road to mediocrity is littered with 3rd round quarterbacks. You can make the arbitrary cut off at 10 if you want, but the reality is, below the first 2 or 3 picks, team need determines the pick, for the most part. It is nothing to find a top 5 talented QB falling to the 20th or 24th pick. That does you no good if your team performance gives you the 28th pick in the first round, though, does it?
Unless you are just not looking, you can see that I clearly understand that coveted quarterbacks can, and do fall in the draft... Pulp has already pointed out that, beyond a certain point, your odds begin to drop off dramatically. That's a simple fact. There is a reason players drop in the draft... you can find gems there, but NOBODY will COUNT on it. If you want the best odds of finding a quarterback who is likely to become a true FRANCHISE quarterback, you are not going to wait till the 3rd or 4th round to do it. Who the heck argues otherwise????
No one is going to revise my arguments for me. I think my thoughts were pretty clear... it's not up to me to read them for you.
Suffice it to say (as you should be able to tell from my list of Redskins franchise quarterbacks), my list is much shorter than yours.
