In my opinion the last really good back we had was Steven Davis.
Well Canes...In your opinion who had his act together after Davis? On and off the field? Portis?
Portis might not be a model citizen, but I hardly would agree that "he's not had his act together off the field." He's never been arrested, suspended, or in the news for something ignorant.
It's one thing to not like a guy's personality or the way he goes about his business, but its quite another to be a character concern. In my view, being likeable is not a pre-requisite for being a "really good back."
Give them all equal reps in preseason with the #1 O line and let the "best" player play. Thats what open competion is all about ...
I am a big Portis fan, be he was less than motivated last year, this is how you motivate stars, threaten their playing time .... Whay can't they "co exsist" ... Open competition and come up with a rotation ...
"The harder I work the luckier I get"....
- Jack Kent Cook 1983
CanesSkins26 wrote:Some people on here have extremely short memories. Portis has carried this team offensively for a number of years and pretty much lead us to the playoffs singlehandedly in 2005. CP has been here for 6 seasons, in 4 of which he posted 1200 yards or more, all with mediocre line play and generally ineffective passing games. In his 6 years here, he's also had 4 years of at least 325 carries, which is unheard of in today's NFL. He's been a workhorse for us and it's ridiculous to minimize what he's accomplished on the field as a Redskin.
To say that Portis carried the team offensively . . . therein lies the problem. We have had one of the worst offenses in the league for a long time. Would we have been any worse with a journeyman blue collar back instead of Portis? You cite some impressive numbers, but when it comes to intangibles, Portis comes up short in my opinion. He was not a leader. He did not inspire the people around him to improve their games and overachieve. He was laid back -- too laid back. And in the close games when we needed to hold the ball and grind out the tough yards in the fourth quarter, we couldn't do it. Portis is a gifted athlete and he has played hurt for a long time, so I do not mean to diminish his effort or his toughness. But mindset, leadership and killer instinct? Just average in my opinion.
True stars make everyone around them better. Look at the Lakers -- in Kobe you have a real star, someone who can even inspire Ron Artest and Derek Fisher to elevate their games to become post season heroes. Nothing like that has happened on the Redskins for the last 6 years . . .
Portis is a warrior on the field, his blocking, his running, his approach to being a successful runner/blocker not to mention all the little things like pass catching and plays that he has very little to do with. Think about who has coached him ,,, Gibbs, Zorn-- I am not sure what other coach was here , but, as a player he has done well to fit into the coaches system expecially with Gibbs and that says alot not only was Gibbs an exceptional coach he got alot out of his players and that showed with all his teams. That mold in fact carried over into the zorn era and quite frankly imo had alot to do with Portis and his relationship with Zorn not to mention the role he had in an offense that rarely gave Portis much to work with. I know that may be a huge knock on the Offense of the Redskins under Zorn. Bottom line is that on the field Portis is a work horse and needs to be motivated with succcess, I am glad we have Shanahan, he has a disciplined General Patton approach to coaching, As long as his offense allows Portis to work and to be a FOOTBALL PLAYER I think he will be great if not then why put Portis through another failing offense we cant get out heads out of our you know what year like the last two. He May even be able to step up as a leader, Under Gibbs he was a warrior under Zorn he was what he was ,( primarily working in a bad offense) Under Shanahan- in an offense that works productivly on the field he could have his best season ever, dispite the nagging injuries that we have all seen. I really like the moves that the new managment has mad at running back.
I love watching and waiting to see what the hecks going on.
god blessed us with # 59 ... go skins
REDSKINS FOOTBALL RULES
CanesSkins26 wrote:Some people on here have extremely short memories. Portis has carried this team offensively for a number of years and pretty much lead us to the playoffs singlehandedly in 2005. CP has been here for 6 seasons, in 4 of which he posted 1200 yards or more, all with mediocre line play and generally ineffective passing games. In his 6 years here, he's also had 4 years of at least 325 carries, which is unheard of in today's NFL. He's been a workhorse for us and it's ridiculous to minimize what he's accomplished on the field as a Redskin.
To say that Portis carried the team offensively . . . therein lies the problem. We have had one of the worst offenses in the league for a long time. Would we have been any worse with a journeyman blue collar back instead of Portis? You cite some impressive numbers, but when it comes to intangibles, Portis comes up short in my opinion. He was not a leader. He did not inspire the people around him to improve their games and overachieve. He was laid back -- too laid back. And in the close games when we needed to hold the ball and grind out the tough yards in the fourth quarter, we couldn't do it. Portis is a gifted athlete and he has played hurt for a long time, so I do not mean to diminish his effort or his toughness. But mindset, leadership and killer instinct? Just average in my opinion.
True stars make everyone around them better. Look at the Lakers -- in Kobe you have a real star, someone who can even inspire Ron Artest and Derek Fisher to elevate their games to become post season heroes. Nothing like that has happened on the Redskins for the last 6 years . . .
Everyone speaks about being a leader. Maybe his on-field performance is his leadership, as he's stated many times. Not everyone can be a Drew Brees and to fault players b/c they're NOT Drew Brees is ludicrous. Personally, I don't need someone to start yelling in a circlejerk. I see Portis getting it done on the field, and THAT would inspire me to work harder. Maybe I'm unique.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
I can only go on what I know or have read. If that's "talking out my behind" than I'm cool with that.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
I can only go on what I know or have read. If that's "talking out my behind" than I'm cool with that.
Wasn't referring to anyone specifically. You see it all the time though, the media paints whatever pic they want, leaving out crucial details and the fans believe it wholeheartedly.
Sean Taylor is a prime example. 85% of the nation still considers him it thug, it kills me! Those fans don't know, they only know wut's painted for them.
Look at the Haynesworth situation, the local media made it sound like the players were pissed. Then you have ey speak up and he doesn't give a darn. Phillip then goes on ES and clears the air...
I dunno man, I just take everything people say with a grain of salt.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
I agree, because I am a fan. As a fan I believe that there are certian constants in place , IE. hard work , team work, togetherness, attitude = leadership. Not problems, complaining, and distractions. Losing sure doesn't help.
I love watching and waiting to see what the hecks going on.
god blessed us with # 59 ... go skins
REDSKINS FOOTBALL RULES
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
All fans know is what we see on the field. And what everyone sees, including my 93 year old grandmother, is that for YEARS the Redskins have an uninspired offense with no strong leadership and no killer instrinct. That was true through multiple quarterbacks and offensive coordinators, through days when the OL was decent through days when it was sub par, through years when we had a HOF coach and years when we have had a coach in over his head. The constant through all those years? Portis at RB and Moss as the #1 WR. They have had a few good moments, but can they carry the team? I think not. Someday when the Redskins are good again, it will be because of inspired football -- average guys having career years, unexpected heroes, grit and determination trumping raw talent and impressive fantasy football statistics.
Chris Luva Luva wrote:Fans talk out of their behinds in regards to a lot of this stuff. They haven no idea what happens or what is said. They don't know how much or how lacking CP is as a leader.
All fans know is what we see on the field. And what everyone sees, including my 93 year old grandmother, is that for YEARS the Redskins have an uninspired offense with no strong leadership and no killer instrinct. That was true through multiple quarterbacks and offensive coordinators, through days when the OL was decent through days when it was sub par, through years when we had a HOF coach and years when we have had a coach in over his head. The constant through all those years? Portis at RB and Moss as the #1 WR. They have had a few good moments, but can they carry the team? I think not. Someday when the Redskins are good again, it will be because of inspired football -- average guys having career years, unexpected heroes, grit and determination trumping raw talent and impressive fantasy football statistics.
In my opinion the last really good back we had was Steven Davis.
Well Canes...In your opinion who had his act together after Davis? On and off the field? Portis?
Some people on here have extremely short memories. Portis has carried this team offensively for a number of years and pretty much lead us to the playoffs singlehandedly in 2005. CP has been here for 6 seasons, in 4 of which he posted 1200 yards or more, all with mediocre line play and generally ineffective passing games. In his 6 years here, he's also had 4 years of at least 325 carries, which is unheard of in today's NFL. He's been a workhorse for us and it's ridiculous to minimize what he's accomplished on the field as a Redskin.
CanesSkins26 wrote:So Portis didn't carry the team into the playoffs in 2005?
I will concede that point. I am grateful for the good memories of what Portis has contributed. The point that I tried to make was that he cannot take us to the next level because he cannot elevate the level of play of the people around him, at least not consistently. Maybe that is not his fault. Maybe I ask too much. Maybe I should look to the QB to fill that role. But if it is lacking in the QB it has to come from other superstars on the team. You need your key guys to have an insatiable hunger to win. Unfortunately we don't see that hunger on the field, we don't see it in the locker room after big losses. We have been a below average team for a long time, and it will be hard to get back to a losing-is-not-an-option mentality.
I'm looking to see a lot of positives from this group this year - I am hoping that a core group of players will take over the leadership roles here on both offense and defense and I think that Portis will be one of those players
Shanahan and Allen are going to instill the team concepts that they want and we are not going to see players like Portis having the access to Snyder that they had in the past - this was not good
maybe it's just me - I just think that the players now understand that they cannot get away with any of the BS that seemed so prevalent here and I think one of the prime examples of the difference in the before and now will be Portis
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Snout wrote:They have had a few good moments, but can they carry the team? I think not.
You have a short term memory sir, Portis has carried this team on his back b4. The above question you've posed, has already been answered. Whether you want to admit to it or not is a different question.
Snout wrote:They have had a few good moments, but can they carry the team? I think not.
You have a short term memory sir, Portis has carried this team on his back b4. The above question you've posed, has already been answered. Whether you want to admit to it or not is a different story.
Portis can carry the load rushing the ball, but I don't think any NFL Running back can carry their team to the Superbowl in today's NFL. Even the best of today's running backs have not been able to do it, and some of them i.e. Ladanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Edgerrin James have been on better teams than Portis has.
I see merit in both points, but all in all, I think its asking too much to expect Clinton to lead us to the next level. He can be a big part of it, but I don't think he alone can do it.
For Portis to be effective we need a passing game, a real one, not a dink and dunk one like he's had b4. I think teams key into stopping the run and we lose games because that is our only reliable weapon on offense. (YES, I said reliable)
#21 (36) This IS and will always be the High watermark where all new DB's are measured.
SKINFAN wrote:For Portis to be effective we need a passing game, a real one, not a dink and dunk one like he's had b4. I think teams key into stopping the run and we lose games because that is our only reliable weapon on offense. (YES, I said reliable)
sorry mate - ALL we need for Portis to be effective is for the other facets of the offense to work - Portis is still one of the better backs playing in the NFL - but all parts of the offense need to be in sync - this is really a simple premise but NO offense is effective without a lot of help from all 11 players AND some good coaching and play calling
This offense AND Portis will be consistently effective in another year or 2
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Snout wrote:They have had a few good moments, but can they carry the team? I think not.
You have a short term memory sir, Portis has carried this team on his back b4. The above question you've posed, has already been answered. Whether you want to admit to it or not is a different story.
Portis can carry the load rushing the ball, but I don't think any NFL Running back can carry their team to the Superbowl in today's NFL. Even the best of today's running backs have not been able to do it, and some of them i.e. Ladanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, and Edgerrin James have been on better teams than Portis has.
I see merit in both points, but all in all, I think its asking too much to expect Clinton to lead us to the next level. He can be a big part of it, but I don't think he alone can do it.
That's really a silly point. No one man will carry your team to the big game. Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison (and Reggie Wayne) Joe Montana had Jerry Rice and a host of others, depending on which Super Bowl you want to talk about.
I think the most common facet in these men among children are offensive lines. I don't even think Brady could have done what he did without a stellar offensive line, so to argue that CP can't do it but others can is kinda naive IMO.
...any given Sunday....
RIP #21 Sean Taylor. You will be loved and adored by Redskins fans forever!!!!!
GSPODS:
The National Anthem sucks.
What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
ey speak up and he doesn't give a darn. Phillip then goes on ES and clears the air...
