oafusp wrote:Would you rather have Gardener who "might" be injured, or Noble who DID have a career threatening knee injury. Who know if Noble will even make it through training camp.
I'd rather have Noble. At least he's not a cancer in the locker room and off the field.
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#60 Chris Samuels: 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time Pro Bowl left tackle!
I always thought Tim Johnson's years in 1992 and 1993 were some of the best DL play I have ever seen for the Skins - I guess that is techinically still in the Mann era. The team in '93 was so bad and Johnson was so good that I swear there were some plays where he got triple teamed.
As for Gardner, He is a risk and I would worry more about the injury risk than the attitude risk. We were extremely lucky the year we had him. Now its 2 years later that risk just gets that much worse. The DT position was upgraded with Griffin - that is why I think Griffin more than anyone will have the biggest impact of the new defensive players. Now that we have one reasonable DT, I would like at least one resonable DE before we get a second DT. besides I imagine Daniels will be a somewhat effective pass rushing DT on passing downs - that is what they will use him for right? Anyway I say no thanks, we aren't going to solve all the problems quite yet and hopefully we can get that DT next year.
oafusp wrote:Would you rather have Gardener who "might" be injured, or Noble who DID have a career threatening knee injury. Who know if Noble will even make it through training camp.
I'd rather have Noble. At least he's not a cancer in the locker room and off the field.
Gardener was not a cancer in the Skins locker room. He got along really well with players, especially Lavar.
He was not really a cancer at Denver until he butted heads with Shanahan over playing time...that never happened in 2002 with Marvin Lewis and I don't think Gibbs or Greg Williams would let it happen either.
It's not like Gardener has off the field problems like Michael Pittman or Darrell Russell...he is just a giant man with a bad attitude...just what you want on your defensive line.
Plus, once again he will have to spend 2004 proving himself (like he had to do in 2002)...I think he'll have a good year wherever he ends up.
When Brandon Noble was healthy I was not impressed with his play. Cornelius Griffin benefitted greatly from having M. Strahan next to him.
There is not one player on our DL that any team will be afraid of including when Lavar lines up at DE. Coach Williams' scheme in Buffalo benefitted from having Sam Adams in the middle. Just like last year we will be complaining about this line all season. You've got to win the line of scrimmage otherwise you're asking for trouble.
wandkwitham wrote:Anyway I say no thanks, we aren't going to solve all the problems quite yet and hopefully we can get that DT next year.
And with how many wins we're going to have under Joe, we'll have a low enough draft pick next year that it will make sense to choose a beefy DT or pass-rushing DE!
ChillWill wrote:Cornelius Griffin benefitted greatly from having M. Strahan next to him.
You could say the same for Gardner... the year he was here we had Wilkinson and Smith(9 sacks).... and you could say the same when he was down in Miami with Jason Taylor around him...
Last edited by BringThePain! on Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
**SPECIAL EDITION**
CurveBall - "It might be YOUR biggest game of the year but it really doesn't seem to be as big a deal for Dallas fans anymore."
I understand the sentiment that we can't solve eveeything at once, but that doesn't mean you don't address an area of need if you have the chance.
Yes, Gardner could end up only playing three games. But he also could be a Pro Bowler. Even if he comes in and is a caner, so what? We get deactivate him and move on. It's not like he ruined Denver's season last year...
Steve Spurrier III wrote:I understand the sentiment that we can't solve eveeything at once, but that doesn't mean you don't address an area of need if you have the chance.
Yes, Gardner could end up only playing three games. But he also could be a Pro Bowler. Even if he comes in and is a caner, so what? We get deactivate him and move on. It's not like he ruined Denver's season last year...
Agreed, again. the only thing we shouldn't do is put up a huge signing bonus. an incentived base contract would be just what the doctor ordered.
i also understand the need to address the DE position, but reality check, THERE AREN'T ANY DE'S AVAILABLE. gardner is hands down the best D-lineman on the market.
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Bruce Smith was very disappointed when DG left and he attributed his 9 sacks to DG. Bruce was very lucky to get 5 last year. I think Bruce fell in the vicinity a couple times and they credited him with the sack.
I watched DG double and triple teamed in 2002 and he was still disruptive. The other impact he has is his height. How many balls did he bat down at the line of scrimmage. The only question with him is you never know which guy is going to show up from one season to the next. When he's hungry (needs a contract) lookout. Sign him to a one-year deal, he'll play for a bigger contract next year. He's got to respond to his poor showing last year.
ChillWill wrote:Sign him to a one-year deal, he'll play for a bigger contract next year. He's got to respond to his poor showing last year.
You've got a good point there..... like I said.... if they sign him... and he performs.... it will definetly improve our line.... it's a risk factor our coaching staff will have to make a decision on ....
**SPECIAL EDITION**
CurveBall - "It might be YOUR biggest game of the year but it really doesn't seem to be as big a deal for Dallas fans anymore."
i don't see why we haven't already made a push to sign this guy. he's a definant improvement for the rotation.
i guess it really is the what have you done for me lately league.
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Glock .40 Model 22 - First* line of home defense.... 'ADT' is for liberals.
Doh!!!!!!!!! i remember him saying that too, but to be fair....Kellen Winslow "said" Gibbs "said" he was going to draft him.
Words mean nothing...if Vinny were to have said "We will do anything it takes to sign Gardener, then the Bengals or an NFC East team would have jumped on the wagon.
oafusp wrote:Words mean nothing...if Vinny were to have said "We will do anything it takes to sign Gardener, then the Bengals or an NFC East team would have jumped on the wagon.
true. a little trojan horse action.
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Glock .40 Model 22 - First* line of home defense.... 'ADT' is for liberals.
Danny Boy already offered this guy a hefty contract but he left when Danny refused to guarrentee the money. So he went to Denver, who did guarentee the money and he played I think three downs for them then hurt himself. He's healed up now though and looking for another team who is going to guarentee the money to him.
I wonder if everybody here is overlooking that the number one control we had in place for Gardener is no longer there.
Marvin Lewis kept the man under control with his "Don't embarrass yourself, don't embarrass the team" mantra.
Who's to say that the wild beast, escaped from the cage, can ever be caged again ?
First thing in Gibbs' mind would be, "Does he want to be a Redskin ?" Remember, the man all but guaranteed his return to the team two years ago, because we were the team that took a chance on him after all the crap in Miami. He was all, "This is where I belong. I'm a Redskin for life."
Next thing you know, he's beating people up outside of a pancake house in downtown Denver, and getting himself hurt doing it. Embarrassing himself, embarrassing his team. So much for "retention skills".
Bottom line ? If Marvin Lewis doesn't want him, I have no use for him.
"Sit back and watch the Redskins.
SOMETHING MAGICAL IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!"
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oafusp wrote:Would you rather have Gardener who "might" be injured, or Noble who DID have a career threatening knee injury. Who know if Noble will even make it through training camp.
I'd rather have Noble. At least he's not a cancer in the locker room and off the field.
Gardener was not a cancer in the Skins locker room. He got along really well with players, especially Lavar.
He was not really a cancer at Denver until he butted heads with Shanahan over playing time...that never happened in 2002 with Marvin Lewis and I don't think Gibbs or Greg Williams would let it happen either.
It's not like Gardener has off the field problems like Michael Pittman or Darrell Russell...he is just a giant man with a bad attitude...just what you want on your defensive line.
Plus, once again he will have to spend 2004 proving himself (like he had to do in 2002)...I think he'll have a good year wherever he ends up.
I know that Daryl wasn't a trouble maker here but it is only a matter of time. He hasn't grown up at all since he was a rookie. Of course a defensive lineman with an attitude is something to be treasured but he has an attitude OFF the field which will stir up controversy that this team doesn't need. It's only a matter of time before he blows up. I'm telling you, this guy has problems.
RIP Sean Taylor 1983-2007
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RIP Justin Skaggs 1979-2007
RIP Sammy Baugh 1914-2008
RIP JPFair
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#60 Chris Samuels: 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time 6-time Pro Bowl left tackle!
Again, sorry to say it over and over - but the D-line is MUCH improved over last year's club. With Salave'a, Noble and Griffin in the mix - all three are better than any we had last year. I'd still ad Gardener though - but we're not as desparate as before. I read today that Norman Hand has lost a lot of weight - now for the G-men... I think he's still got talent.
I agree Griffin is an upgrade, but Salave'a has six tackles in the last three years and the truth is we have no idea what kind of player Noble is going to be coming off a DEVESTATING knee injury. If he is 80% of the player he used to be we will be lucky.
We can't know if Gardner is going to work out or not, but as long as he has a reasonable contract I don't see what we have to lose. The truth is Gibbs can handle players much better than Shannahan, and I really can't see Gardner being someone who hurts us in the lockerroom...
Steve Spurrier III wrote:We can't know if Gardner is going to work out or not, but as long as he has a reasonable contract I don't see what we have to lose. The truth is Gibbs can handle players much better than Shannahan, and I really can't see Gardner being someone who hurts us in the lockerroom...
No, you're right. He won't hurt in the locker room. It's true that Bruce Smith is no longer there (an icon for Gardener) and it's also true that he could once again establish himself as a leader...
Problem is, I don't see any interest from Gregg Williams. I don't see Joe Gibbs looking to Cincy to see what goes on with the man. I don't see LaVar Arrington jumping up and down saying, "Our guy is available !"
All this leads me to believe that we don't see a need for Gardener.
Plus, I wonder...will he sign the same type of contract he signed before, when he felt he had something to prove ? After all, he turned down Snyder's best offer cold two years ago.
"Sit back and watch the Redskins.
SOMETHING MAGICAL IS ABOUT TO BEGIN!"
JPFair- A fan's fan. RIP, brother
TC wrote:Plus, I wonder...will he sign the same type of contract he signed before, when he felt he had something to prove ? After all, he turned down Snyder's best offer cold two years ago.
come to think of it, whats with denver offering all our high priced defensive FA's larger deals? shany wants to be snyder
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