Redskins to Pick 4th in the NFL Draft

[frankcal20]

I think Jansen was a good player for us too for a long time. Hell, he was one of the most durable guys in our teams history. But once he got hurt, his play was affected dramatically.

[VetSkinsFan]

There are a few things about those type of passes

1. He couldn't throw deep because the took out the 5 and 7 step drops which allow the receivers time to get open downfield.

2. The type of offense we run - WCO is predominantly a short passing game. It's premise is to run after the catch. Sure there are different versions and examples with players like DeShawn Jackson who regularly get open deep but again, not many guys with his speed and route running ability - especially on this team. Also, those plays take time to develop. Something this offensive line didn't do on a consistent basis.

No one is talking about JC not having many chances and he didn't have a ton, but he turned down a lot that he had, waited too long on others, didn't find the open guy, and when he did have protection and the reciever was WIDE OPEN he often missed.

Heck, in what might be his final pass as a Redskin, HE MISSED THE ENTIRE FIELD!!!!!

He has got a big arm but is slow at reading defenses and is a terrible down field passer. Can he get better with more protection and a system better fit to his strengths, OF COURSE HE CAN. Will he ever be an elite QB? No stinking way. Will he ever be a top ten QB? Doubtful. Could he progress into a top 15 QB? Most likely.

Ratahan has a history of getting the best out of a QB. He did it with Elway, with Steve Young, Brian Griese, and Jake Plummer. Now JC will never be in the Young or Elway league, but he could develope into a Griese or Plummer.

As much as the thought make me ill I am for drafting an elite OT over a rookie QB with a lot of questions and keping JC (if we can). I'm really not in love with any of the QBs in this draft. If we could get Tebow in the second round then I would be OK with that. If not draft 5 OL, because that is all of the draft picks we have.

Drafting a stud OT in the top 5 is one of the safest picks you can make, but hitting on an elite OT isn't as rewarding as hitting on an elite QB. Look at Samuals. I would say we hit on him, how well did that pay off? We could have drafted Tom Brady (in many rounds). Heck Chad Pennington might have helped us more!

Now OTs aren't with out risk. The Skins biggest first round bust ever is easy and no it isn't Heath Shuler, it is Andre Johnson, OT from PSU. Never even dressed a single game for the Skins. I don't think he ever played an NFL game.

When he's hit 10+ times EVERY game, you can't pick out a play here or there and judge him. It's like being gunshy; you don't just wake up one day and not gunshy anymore. The line has to give him to so he learns to trust them again. It's not something you come out from 1/2 time and change.

[frankcal20]

Well I think that's just the "HUMAN" factor. No one can sit back there like a moving statue and continue to get hit time after time and not finally get a little time and not flinch a little.

A perfect example I can give is that in police/swat training, they frequently have the cops shoot guns that have a mix of real and fake bullets. Because they know that there is going to be a kickback, when you hit a fake bullet, nothing. And the instructors look to see if the shooter flinches or not.

That's kind of how I look at it. Being that he was hit so much this year, it became more of the norm to be hit than to have great protection and time to throw.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I think Shanny will keep JC and I believe he'll give Colt a fair shake. That being said, we'll most likely draft an offensive lineman.

[crazyhorse1]

I think the premise for #4 overall QB =bust is that there's not enough of a warm and fuzzy left for the oline this offseason/draft. If Randy Thomas comes back, then we at least need a LT and RT IN THAT ORDER. Heyer is garbage. BM Williams is garbage; if Thomas retires, then if Rinehart can't handle the job, find someone who can. BUILD THE BASE which is the line on both sides of the ball. Once the holes on the O line are addressed, then we need a DT, LB, and RB.

I don't expect to see all this addressed all year, but if Heyer is our RT, then it's going to be another looooong year.

Thomas can not come back. Even if he did, against all common sense and doctor's advice, he would be worthless. He's too old, too injured. Couldn't last through the pre-season. Those who expect Samuels and Thomas to bail us out are living in the same kind of fantasy world that Danny lives in.

[skinsfan#33]

I think Jansen was a good player for us too for a long time. Hell, he was one of the most durable guys in our teams history. But once he got hurt, his play was affected dramatically.

That is one of my points. For the early part of this decade we had one of the best pairs of OTs in the NFL and we still sucked. The only time we were good was when Brad Johnson was hitting on all eight and the year (to a lesser extent) Boonel had the best year of his career.

The Vikings were solid these past few years with one of the best OL in football and purple Jesus but they had a QB on par with JC and they just couldn't make the playoffs. Add the old man Favre and now they have a first round bye.

The Ravens and Falcons added QBs two years ago and they improved dramatically.

The Texans got a full year from Matt Schwab and just missed the playoffs.

With out a good QB a team will not be constantly good. The 80's Redskins aren't considered the best team of the 80's and the reason for that can be summed up in one word, "Montana". The Skins had the Hogs and only went deep into the playoffs when they got good QB play. Had Gibbs had a Montana, Marino, or even a Kosar the Redskins would have been the best team of the 80's and Gibbs would be reguarded with higher reverence than Walse.

If New England drafts Todd Husack and we draft Tom Brady in the 6th round of the 2000 draft, then maybe Marty or Norv is still the HC and Snyder is considered one of the best owners in sports.

QBs are that important. Every team that has ever been considered a dynasty has a HoF QB (and no, the 80's Skins weren't considered a dynasty.)

We are the last place team in the division and we have the worst QB in the division; coincidence? And before you say it, yes we have the worst OL too, but until our QB is on par with Romo, McNabb, or Eli we will almost always be a bottom feeder in the division.

[frankcal20]

Here's the thing. You're talking about some of the best QB's in league history. The chance of landing one of those type guys are slim to none. There are no guarantee's on someone panning out. I think it's sheer luck. It's easy to say what might have been but If we win a SB with a mediocre QB vs a star QB, it really doesn't matter. It's still a SB win.

[Deadskins]

The 80's Redskins aren't considered the best team of the 80's and the reason for that can be summed up in one word, "Montana". The Skins had the Hogs and only went deep into the playoffs when they got good QB play. Had Gibbs had a Montana, Marino, or even a Kosar the Redskins would have been the best team of the 80's and Gibbs would be reguarded with higher reverence than Walse.

Wrong, the word isn't "Montana," it's "division." The Skins were the best team of the '80s, and would commonly be acknowledged as such, if we had had the Falcons, Saints, and Rams as division opponents for those years. Those 49er teams coasted through the regular seasons injury free and rested as perennial NFC West champions.

[CanesSkins26]

If we win a SB with a mediocre QB

Good luck with that. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. Not too many mediocre qb's in that group.

[CanesSkins26]

I think Shanny will keep JC and I believe he'll give Colt a fair shake. That being said, we'll most likely draft an offensive lineman.

I think that they might keep JC, only bc there might not be a better option. I also think that they draft a qb at some point. I think that there is almost no chance that Colt gets a shot with Shanahan. Shanahan runs a vertical passing game and likes qb's with strong arms. Colt doesn't fit that description at all.

[Jeremy81]

This is not going to be a one offseason fix. There won't be a superbowl run next year. So why not start suring up the weakest part of our team?

1st round: russell okung

2nd round: mike iupati

[Jeremy81]

This is not going to be a one offseason fix. There won't be a superbowl run next year. So why not start suring up the weakest part of our team?

1st round: russell okung

2nd round: mike iupati

[frankcal20]

If we win a SB with a mediocre QB

Good luck with that. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. Not too many mediocre qb's in that group.

I was listening to Rich Gannon this morning on Sirius NFL radio and he said that the QB's that are in the league now are some of the best of all time. That the year he won NFL Player of the Year that his numbers were way lower than what other QB's are doing today. He said that the group - Manning, Brees, Favre will go down as some of the best, most unbelievable quarterback play in league history.

He spoke about Jason Campbell after the Chris Cooley interview and said that Jason is the perfect example of wasted talent. That since he was drafted, he was not put in a position to win and play within a scheme that fit's his skill set. He said that because he has been required to focusing on new offensive systems, he can't focus on the things that most QB's work on once they get their schemes down like timing, mechanics, etc.

He said that the best scenerio for everyone may be a parting of ways because if Jason were to be on a team with a stable coaching staff and a team with a good line, he can be an effective QB in this league. He doesn't think that JC will ever be a Brees, Manning or Favre but he also said that he doesn't seen anyone else with that kind of potential with the exception of Aaron Rogers. But he said that Rogers' sack issues have less to do with the line and more to do with him holding onto the ball too long. This is something that I personally feel that is an issue with Jason Campbell at times.

[skinsfan#33]

If we win a SB with a mediocre QB

Good luck with that. Look at the teams in the playoffs this year. Not too many mediocre qb's in that group.

I was listening to Rich Gannon this morning on Sirius NFL radio and he said that the QB's that are in the league now are some of the best of all time. That the year he won NFL Player of the Year that his numbers were way lower than what other QB's are doing today. He said that the group - Manning, Brees, Favre will go down as some of the best, most unbelievable quarterback play in league history.

He spoke about Jason Campbell after the Chris ey interview and said that Jason is the perfect example of wasted talent. That since he was drafted, he was not put in a position to win and play within a scheme that fit's his skill set. He said that because he has been required to focusing on new offensive systems, he can't focus on the things that most QB's work on once they get their schemes down like timing, mechanics, etc.

He said that the best scenerio for everyone may be a parting of ways because if Jason were to be on a team with a stable coaching staff and a team with a good line, he can be an effective QB in this league. He doesn't think that JC will ever be a Brees, Manning or Favre but he also said that he doesn't seen anyone else with that kind of potential with the exception of Aaron Rogers. But he said that Rogers' sack issues have less to do with the line and more to do with him holding onto the ball too long. This is something that I personally feel that is an issue with Jason Campbell at times.

I'm sick of all the un true comments about how many offensive systems JC has had. Here are the facts: As a NFL starter he has had to change offenses ONCE, yes I said once, in four years. Farve has had two changes in as many years. How many OC has Brady had? What 4 or 5! In the last two years he has had as many changes as (then rookie QBs) Flaco and Ryan.

One flipping change in four years.

If you were going to build an offense that fits JC's skills what system would that be? He isn't a west coast QB, he isn't and Air Coryell system QB (Saunders or Gibbs). You would have to develope a system that relies on hitting RB and TE in the flats and medium range passes to crossing WR's. He is too slow for the west coast offense, he can't throw a slant. He doesn't work in the Gibbs/Saunders (Coryell) because you have to know how to read long, medium, and short passes and take the long pass when it is there and he just isn't an effective long range passer.

So I couldn't tell you what sytem to runs with him because he just isn't good at enough. Maybe Norv's system where you are allowed to audible and you pretty much know where you are going pre snap (except he isn't good at the pre-snap read) Maybe Marty ball; run, run, run, and throw only when absolutely nessecary.

Sometimes you have a QB with all the physical tools to be a strater yet he just isn't suited to be anything other than a back up QB. JC=Frerotte.

[frankcal20]

I am amazed at that comment. The facts of it is 100% incorrect and everyone with half of a brain knows that. The offense that Jason Campbell was brought in was Joe Gibbs' offense. The offense that Saunders uses isn't the same at all. It has some of the same tendencies but it's not the same. That's why they kept Gibbs' running game. After that, we ran another offense - which skips my memory after Saunders left and then finally, it was Jim Zorn and his WCO.

Also, keep in mind that JC ran 3 other offenses in college as well. So don't think for one second that it's been easy or he's just incompetent b/c the only person who looks that way is those that fail to see things how they really are.

[skinsfan#33]

I am amazed at that comment. The facts of it is 100% incorrect and everyone with half of a brain knows that. The offense that Jason Campbell was brought in was Joe Gibbs' offense. The offense that Saunders uses isn't the same at all. It has some of the same tendencies but it's not the same. That's why they kept Gibbs' running game. After that, we ran another offense - which skips my memory after Saunders left and then finally, it was Jim Zorn and his WCO.

Also, keep in mind that JC ran 3 other offenses in college as well. So don't think for one second that it's been easy or he's just incompetent b/c the only person who looks that way is those that fail to see things how they really are.

I could care less about how many offenses JC had in college. It doesn't mean didly poo.

And since I have more than just the half a brain others are working with I do know that Gibbs and Saunder's ssytem a based in Coryell's system and are extremely similar. Saunder's spices his up a little more and Gibbs is more ground based, but the terminology and read progressions were essentially the same.

Besides JC has only started NFL games under Saunder's and Zorn's play books. One change in four years.

[VetSkinsFan]

I am amazed at that comment. The facts of it is 100% incorrect and everyone with half of a brain knows that. The offense that Jason Campbell was brought in was Joe Gibbs' offense. The offense that Saunders uses isn't the same at all. It has some of the same tendencies but it's not the same. That's why they kept Gibbs' running game. After that, we ran another offense - which skips my memory after Saunders left and then finally, it was Jim Zorn and his WCO.

Also, keep in mind that JC ran 3 other offenses in college as well. So don't think for one second that it's been easy or he's just incompetent b/c the only person who looks that way is those that fail to see things how they really are.

I could care less about how many offenses JC had in college. It doesn't mean didly poo.

And since I have more than just the half a brain others are working with I do know that Gibbs and Saunder's ssytem a based in Coryell's system and are extremely similar. Saunder's spices his up a little more and Gibbs is more ground based, but the terminology and read progressions were essentially the same.

Besides JC has only started NFL games under Saunder's and Zorn's play books. One change in four years.

I recall reading more than once in their tenure that their styles had growth further apart than originally anticipated.

[CanesSkins26]

I was listening to Rich Gannon this morning on Sirius NFL radio and he said that the QB's that are in the league now are some of the best of all time. That the year he won NFL Player of the Year that his numbers were way lower than what other QB's are doing today. He said that the group - Manning, Brees, Favre will go down as some of the best, most unbelievable quarterback play in league history.

It has less to do with the actual players and more to do with the offenses that are being run. Teams employ more open offenses now and throw the ball more than they did in the past. The rules (protecting qb's, 5 yard illegal contact, calling pass interference for even the slightest of touches by db's) have been changed over the years to allow for more passing and as a result more scoring.

[CanesSkins26]

Also, keep in mind that JC ran 3 other offenses in college as well.

Maybe he technically ran three offenses while at Auburn, but there are two main things that he did while being the qb there.....(1) hand the ball off to Cadillac or Ronnie Brown or (2) dump the ball off to Cadillac or Ronnie Brown. That was the Auburn offense haha.

[BossHog]

What does any of this have to do with the thread title?

You guys are going on and on about anything BUT the Redskins having the 4th overall pick in the draft.

The staff are trying to be more understanding of threads going off topic, but you guys are really just getting way too lazy, and pushing things too far.

PLEASE KEEP THREADS ON TOPIC.

This thread isn't about JC, it's about the Redskins 4th overall pick.

Discuss.

[CanesSkins26]

Point taken Boss Hog.

As for the draft, oline might not even be an option for us with the 4th pick. I've seen several mocks that have the Lions and/or the Bucs taking Okung since both of those teams need oline help. I think it's pretty well established that Okung is the only real top 5 worthy lineman in the draft so we might have to explore trading down if we are dead-set on oline in the first round.

[1niksder]

Point taken Boss Hog.

As for the draft, oline might not even be an option for us with the 4th pick. I've seen several mocks that have the Lions and/or the Bucs taking Okung since both of those teams need oline help. I think it's pretty well established that Okung is the only real top 5 worthy lineman in the draft so we might have to explore trading down if we are dead-set on oline in the first round.

With all the NEEDS on this team trading down should be the first option... as long as "the Danny" has no input.

[frankcal20]

I think it come's down to a few simple things:

1. Is there someone there you like to fill a need?
2. Are there other player's available that are coveted by other teams?
3. Are teams offering you value to move out of your spot
4. If you do move, is there another player you've identified that can help fill a need?

[PulpExposure]

Point taken Boss Hog.

As for the draft, oline might not even be an option for us with the 4th pick. I've seen several mocks that have the Lions and/or the Bucs taking Okung since both of those teams need oline help. I think it's pretty well established that Okung is the only real top 5 worthy lineman in the draft so we might have to explore trading down if we are dead-set on oline in the first round.

With all the NEEDS on this team trading down should be the first option... as long as "the Danny" has no input.

You're right. But with the guarenteed money top 5 picks are getting nowadays, no one is trading out of the top 5 anymore. Except for the Jets trading for Sanchez last year, the previous time a top 5 pick got traded was the Eli Manning trade in 2004. Maybe someone will fall in love with Bradford or Clausen, and we'll get lucky?

[brad7686]

Point taken Boss Hog.

As for the draft, oline might not even be an option for us with the 4th pick. I've seen several mocks that have the Lions and/or the Bucs taking Okung since both of those teams need oline help. I think it's pretty well established that Okung is the only real top 5 worthy lineman in the draft so we might have to explore trading down if we are dead-set on oline in the first round.

By the time the draft unfolds there is a good chance that Anthony Davis will surpass Okung anyway. They will both be top 10 picks.