We Suck

[Fios]

I'll grant Arch and Lloyd have been bad moves, looking over the past four seasons, please name some others. You can't say "far more examples" and list ONE dude. You have to be to demonstrate that statement has some validity (I can save you some time, it doesn't) if you are going to throw it out there.

Even though I think many of our FA acquisitions have worked out, we did use an awful lot of draft picks to get them, and I think that's been part of the problem. We appear to have a terrible draft record and we have so little depth because many draft picks went for players like Lloyd or Portis.

Right, but unless I've missed the point entirely (not impossible) his focus was on the pursuit of free agents. I'm not as awe-stricken by the draft as many people but I do recognize the Redskins approach to it forced them to be more active players in the FA market. I just think the notion of Snyder playing fantasy football is somewhat anachronistic at this point, we have to be able to move past the myths in order to have a real discussion.

[Irn-Bru]

Right, but unless I've missed the point entirely (not impossible) his focus was on the pursuit of free agents. I'm not as awe-stricken by the draft as many people but I do recognize the Redskins approach to it forced them to be more active players in the FA market. I just think the notion of Snyder playing fantasy football is somewhat anachronistic at this point, we have to be able to move past the myths in order to have a real discussion.

To tell you the truth I hadn't been following the thread closely so I didn't see what you were responding to. I guess I can say this when it comes to poor spending choices by The Danny et al.:

Brunell - I am one to defend his play, especially in 2005, but he was one expensive acquisition. Look at his cap numbers for what has been in essence a backup quarterback the past two seasons.

Lloyd - Not only is his contract huge, and not only will we eat some major cap if we decide to let him go (I'm still holding out hope that he'll stick around a few more years and start producing. . .perhaps I'm dreaming), but the draft picks will prove to have been more costly to this team, in my opinion.

Archuleta - I can't blame the coaches for failing to see that disaster. I mean, Lovie Smith made the same mistake that we did, and he even had the benefit of seeing Arch "play" for us! In all seriousness, I think Arch is a classic case of how "making it" can affect the mindset of a player (maybe his wife and cars are still distracting him, too). At any rate, we paid him quite a bit to be not-so-good at punt protection.

Antwaan Randle El - $30 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. I just don't think he's played up to that level of contract. That's essentially what we're paying Moss.

TJ Duckett - I don't know if he wasn't what they expected, if he wasn't used the way he needed to be, or if he just didn't fit, but I'd count him. (Another 3rd rounder? Or was it a 3rd and 4th?)


Now, I think that the Redskins have improved from these personnel decisions—in the last 4 offeasons we've had 2 good offseasons, 1 horrible one, and 1 decent one by my count—and while I generally chafe when people refer to Dan as if he's a fantasy football owner, there is some warrant in the criticisms in my view.

[SkinsJock]

We all know that Snyder made many bad decisions in the past, but I would be surprised if he has made any decisions recently - the player decisions IMO have not been made by Cerrato and Snyder they have been the result of Williams and Gibbs (and others) input to the FO (Gibbs, Snyder and Cerrato) - the 2 racquetball buddies have "supported" the decisions but the recent years player mistakes should not be laid at Snyder's feet just because he goes along with what his coaches want.

Gibbs wanted Brunell because he felt that he would still be effective and Gibbs thought that he was a very intelligent QB (BIG mistake yes but, in my opinion, not a Snyder boo-boo) - Gibbs was apparently the instigator in getting Portis for a disgruntled Bailey (still a questionable call but I think this will still be an "even" deal when its all over!) - I think that a number of the recent player acquisitions have the look of coaches decisions and not the obvious mistakes that Snyder and his "yes man" used to make.

I am not trying to "defend" snyder at all - just saying that Gibbs came in here and part of his deal is that he wanted to run things a certain way and I think Snyder has for the most part let him do that - Snyder at this time is like the dog that chases the car and then finds he's really stuffed when he catches it

[Redskin in Canada]

just in case anyone missed it, this just in.....
WE SUCK!

As a matter of formal logic, I absolutely agree: YOU SUCK together with all of those who agree, by their own volition, with you.

Those of us who disagree, obviously do not suck and neither THEM the Redskins.

[Redskin in Canada]

Right, but unless I've missed the point entirely (not impossible) ...

By accident or design you may have missed a little post addressed to YOU in this thread:

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#367399

Shall we dance?

[SkinsJock]

I agree with one thing that RiC is alluding to and that is we are most likely going to be paired (pardon the pun) with Gibbs for another year and while that is not suitable for many, things could be a whole lot worse IMO if we go back to Snyder's (with Cerrato) way of running this team.

There are not going to be too many coaches that will be allowed to control things here the way Gibbs has

[Chris Luva Luva]

There are not going to be too many coaches that will be allowed to control things here the way Gibbs has

That is what concerns me the most.

[Redskin in Canada]

There are not going to be too many coaches that will be allowed to control things here the way Gibbs has

That is what concerns me the most.

I though you were going to bring some popcorn...

[Fios]

Right, but unless I've missed the point entirely (not impossible) ...

By accident or design you may have missed a little post addressed to YOU in this thread:

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... ht=#367399

Shall we dance?

Frankly, no, we've been down this path, I just don't have the desire to walk it again

[hailskins666]

Right, but unless I've missed the point entirely (not impossible) his focus was on the pursuit of free agents. I'm not as awe-stricken by the draft as many people but I do recognize the Redskins approach to it forced them to be more active players in the FA market. I just think the notion of Snyder playing fantasy football is somewhat anachronistic at this point, we have to be able to move past the myths in order to have a real discussion.

To tell you the truth I hadn't been following the thread closely so I didn't see what you were responding to. I guess I can say this when it comes to poor spending choices by The Danny et al.:

Brunell - I am one to defend his play, especially in 2005, but he was one expensive acquisition. Look at his cap numbers for what has been in essence a backup quarterback the past two seasons.

Lloyd - Not only is his contract huge, and not only will we eat some major cap if we decide to let him go (I'm still holding out hope that he'll stick around a few more years and start producing. . .perhaps I'm dreaming), but the draft picks will prove to have been more costly to this team, in my opinion.

Archuleta - I can't blame the coaches for failing to see that disaster. I mean, Lovie Smith made the same mistake that we did, and he even had the benefit of seeing Arch "play" for us! In all seriousness, I think Arch is a classic case of how "making it" can affect the mindset of a player (maybe his wife and cars are still distracting him, too). At any rate, we paid him quite a bit to be not-so-good at punt protection.

Antwaan Randle El - $30 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. I just don't think he's played up to that level of contract. That's essentially what we're paying Moss.

TJ Duckett - I don't know if he wasn't what they expected, if he wasn't used the way he needed to be, or if he just didn't fit, but I'd count him. (Another 3rd rounder? Or was it a 3rd and 4th?)


Now, I think that the Redskins have improved from these personnel decisions—in the last 4 offeasons we've had 2 good offseasons, 1 horrible one, and 1 decent one by my count—and while I generally chafe when people refer to Dan as if he's a fantasy football owner, there is some warrant in the criticisms in my view.

to add to who we 'shouldn't have gone after', what about those we let get away.

smoot the first time. carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold. could have still gotten campell, and not given up a pick. or even gone after another target at #9 overall.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

depth. we have NONE. betts backing portis may be the strongest depth on the team.

i would think a competent GM would have been able to see some of this. i mean i know hindsight is 20/20, but i think the ones who got away, hurt the most. (more than the busts aquired)

[hailskins666]

just in case anyone missed it, this just in.....
WE SUCK!

As a matter of formal logic, I absolutely agree: YOU SUCK together with all of those who agree, by their own volition, with you.

Those of us who disagree, obviously do not suck and neither THEM the Redskins.

here. we are awesome. post here if you like what you see. this thread is for you. :cheers:

http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=367768#367768

[Skinsfan55]

to add to who we 'shouldn't have gone after', what about those we let get away.

smoot the first time. carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold. could have still gotten campell, and not given up a pick. or even gone after another target at #9 overall.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

Smoot was 25 when we let him go. He commanded a big contract, but he was a hell of a player here forcing fumbles and making picks.

Walt Harris was a bit older, and never established himself as much in Washington, but kudos to him for having success in San Fran.

Ryan Clark was very dependable here, and I also wish we'd kept him. He was about 26 when we didn't re-sign him.

Antonio Pierce was a star here and we let him go in favor of Lemar Marshall. Not that Marshall wasn't a decent MLB, but Pierce was excellent. He was 26 when we let him go and coming off a huge season. In New York he's continued to be excellent. I'll never really understand why we let him go.

We also signed McCants to a decent sized extension then refused to play him. He later was cut. We got rid of Bryan Johnson, he was 25 and has blossomed with the Bears. We also let Dockery go and he's been excellent with the Bills.

Almost all of those guys have an older inverse:

Pierce-Fletcher, Johnson-Sellers, Dockery-Kendall

Not that Fletcher, Sellers and Kendall aren't decent players but they are much older than their counterparts.

[hailskins666]

to add to who we 'shouldn't have gone after', what about those we let get away.

smoot the first time. carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold. could have still gotten campell, and not given up a pick. or even gone after another target at #9 overall.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

Smoot was 25 when we let him go. He commanded a big contract, but he was a hell of a player here forcing fumbles and making picks.

Walt Harris was a bit older, and never established himself as much in Washington, but kudos to him for having success in San Fran.

Ryan Clark was very dependable here, and I also wish we'd kept him. He was about 26 when we didn't re-sign him.

Antonio Pierce was a star here and we let him go in favor of Lemar Marshall. Not that Marshall wasn't a decent MLB, but Pierce was excellent. He was 26 when we let him go and coming off a huge season. In New York he's continued to be excellent. I'll never really understand why we let him go.

We also signed McCants to a decent sized extension then refused to play him. He later was cut. We got rid of Bryan Johnson, he was 25 and has blossomed with the Bears. We also let Dockery go and he's been excellent with the Bills.

Almost all of those guys have an older inverse:

Pierce-Fletcher, Johnson-Sellers, Dockery-Kendall

Not that Fletcher, Sellers and Kendall aren't decent players but they are much older than their counterparts.

well, i don't fault the team for letting dock walk. he FO SHO ain't worth the kind of money buffalo paid. but a competent GM would have had a replacment in the wings waiting to be groomed.

[HEROHAMO]

to add to who we 'shouldn't have gone after', what about those we let get away.

smoot the first time. carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold. could have still gotten campell, and not given up a pick. or even gone after another target at #9 overall.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

Smoot was 25 when we let him go. He commanded a big contract, but he was a hell of a player here forcing fumbles and making picks.

Walt Harris was a bit older, and never established himself as much in Washington, but kudos to him for having success in San Fran.

Ryan Clark was very dependable here, and I also wish we'd kept him. He was about 26 when we didn't re-sign him.

Antonio Pierce was a star here and we let him go in favor of Lemar Marshall. Not that Marshall wasn't a decent MLB, but Pierce was excellent. He was 26 when we let him go and coming off a huge season. In New York he's continued to be excellent. I'll never really understand why we let him go.

We also signed McCants to a decent sized extension then refused to play him. He later was cut. We got rid of Bryan Johnson, he was 25 and has blossomed with the Bears. We also let Dockery go and he's been excellent with the Bills.

Almost all of those guys have an older inverse:

Pierce-Fletcher, Johnson-Sellers, Dockery-Kendall

Not that Fletcher, Sellers and Kendall aren't decent players but they are much older than their counterparts.

well, i don't fault the team for letting dock walk. he FO SHO ain't worth the kind of money buffalo paid. but a competent GM would have had a replacment in the wings waiting to be groomed.

I have a couple prospects in the fantasy football threads check them out. A nice corner who could go in the first round.

I agree with letting Dockery go. Dockery was not worth the contract that Buffalo paid him. To be fair I think Heyer will turn out to be a good find. After all he went undrafted.

[hailskins666]

to add to who we 'shouldn't have gone after', what about those we let get away.

smoot the first time. carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold. could have still gotten campell, and not given up a pick. or even gone after another target at #9 overall.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

Smoot was 25 when we let him go. He commanded a big contract, but he was a hell of a player here forcing fumbles and making picks.

Walt Harris was a bit older, and never established himself as much in Washington, but kudos to him for having success in San Fran.

Ryan Clark was very dependable here, and I also wish we'd kept him. He was about 26 when we didn't re-sign him.

Antonio Pierce was a star here and we let him go in favor of Lemar Marshall. Not that Marshall wasn't a decent MLB, but Pierce was excellent. He was 26 when we let him go and coming off a huge season. In New York he's continued to be excellent. I'll never really understand why we let him go.

We also signed McCants to a decent sized extension then refused to play him. He later was cut. We got rid of Bryan Johnson, he was 25 and has blossomed with the Bears. We also let Dockery go and he's been excellent with the Bills.

Almost all of those guys have an older inverse:

Pierce-Fletcher, Johnson-Sellers, Dockery-Kendall

Not that Fletcher, Sellers and Kendall aren't decent players but they are much older than their counterparts.

well, i don't fault the team for letting dock walk. he FO SHO ain't worth the kind of money buffalo paid. but a competent GM would have had a replacment in the wings waiting to be groomed.

I have a couple prospects in the fantasy football threads check them out. A nice corner who could go in the first round.

I agree with letting Dockery go. Dockery was not worth the contract that Buffalo paid him. To be fair I think Heyer will turn out to be a good find. After all he went undrafted.

yea, but if nothing changes in the front office, i'm sure we'll let him walk for nothing too.

[Irn-Bru]

Okay, so first I spar with Fios taking a negative view point, and now I'll defend the Skins against HS's attack here:

smoot the first time.

No way. Smoot wanted big money and he got it. He played for the Vikings like other FA's play for us. The Skins played Smoot perfectly—letting him go when it was going to be too costly to keep him, taking him back at a discount when he was hungry again. And he's playing beautifully for us.

And, my memory isn't that short. I remember the way many THN members chose to remember Smoot's first tenure here in D.C.

carlos isn't exactly a game breaker. couldn't catch a cold.

I disagree and I think we've seen just how much we miss Carlos after he went out this year. He has been improving and, dare I say, was good this year.

It's time to stop living in 2005; Rogers is showing himself to be the real deal.

walt harris. not great, but played within the system. and did it well.

No, we should have cut Harris based on his play for us. Our secondary needed help, and he wasn't it. In fact, Garnell Wilds seemed to have more promise, IMO (especially since he's 7 years younger than Harris).

But I must admit that Harris' breakout in SF astonishes me to this day.

clark, we wouldn't have even had to endure the AA debacle with a starter entrenched. guy wasn't even asking a third of what arch wanted.

antonio pierce. homegrown talent. not a ray lewis, but we wouldn't have had to go after fletcher, not that he is all bad, but with all that cap space, we could be a bit less laughable as far as depth. and that brings up the next point.

Agreed. . .

depth. we have NONE. betts backing portis may be the strongest depth on the team.

I think we're seeing some decent depth on the O-line and in our secondary. Our d-line has no all-stars but 6 of our guys seem capable of playing at the same level (does that count?).

Overall I agree with you on depth, though, and I think our FA strategy has contributed greatly to that.

Really, the only players I agree with you on are Clark and Pierce. I'm glad that we cut everyone else you mentioned—and don't forget the other players Gibbs let go: Rod Garnder, Coles, Dockery (7 years 49 million, anyone?). . .again, aside from Clark and Pierce I think we've done a good job of letting players go at the right time.

You also have to include timely signings / extensions, which now include players like Jon Jansen, Chris Samuels, Chris ey, and Ladell Betts.

In sum, I think things aren't quite as one sided as the evil lord has chosen to phrase them.

[Irn-Bru]

Almost all of those guys have an older inverse:

Pierce-Fletcher, Johnson-Sellers, Dockery-Kendall

Not that Fletcher, Sellers and Kendall aren't decent players but they are much older than their counterparts.

I won't defend letting Pierce go, but we are lucky that Fletcher is one hell of a player. Had we locked in Pierce, we wouldn't have needed Fletcher at all.

We've gotten 4 great years out of Sellers and he could easily go for 2 more. He's done everything for us (I think) that Johnson would have, except he's caught more touchdowns. I don't see the logic with this one (and isn't Sellers only 3 years older?)

Kendall is really playing well for us in my opinion. Dockery was good in his contract year but had inconsistent performances during his entire stay in Washington. They both have been good, so the dividing factors are really age(/potential) and money.

It would have cost us in the neighborhood of $10 million just to get Dockery to step on the field for us this year; Kendall is getting something like $2 million. Unless Dockery turns out to be the 3rd best guard in the league—which is what he's getting paid—we made out OK on that deal.

[SkinsJock]

Nice summation FFA - I agree!

I'm not saying we are a very good team - hell I'm as frustrated as most - I was really thinking we would be at 9-7 or 10-6 this year - we looked like we could get a little better this year and hopefully with the draft picks and the free agents this coming off-season we could be a top 5 team in 2008.

I just think that we have had a bunch of things go against us and a bunch of bad decisions by Joe sure didn't help but Gibbs should not be held solely responsible here there are plenty of others who can take some of that action.

Hopefully we can finish this season well - I could not care less if we go 9-7 and do not make the playoffs - we need to finish well and continue to put some pieces together for a serious climb back to respectability here

we do not suck - we just need a GM, a litle bit of luck and .........

[Redskin in Canada]

Frankly, no, we've been down this path, I just don't have the desire to walk it again

I knew it. i just wanted you to put it in writing.

I stand by my loyalty to and belief on Joe Gibbs and his staff to be the best option to take us to the promised land, notwithstanding the anchors named Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato.

[Redskin in Canada]

... we do not suck - we just need a GM, a litle bit of luck and .........

the swing of most posters ranges from MISERY to EXTASIS from week to week depending on the outcome of each game. If we win tomorrow, scores of posters will begin to discuss playoff scenarios and beyond. If we lose, I may wish to spend more time following the Montreal Canadiens.

[CanesSkins26]

I disagree and I think we've seen just how much we miss Carlos after he went out this year. He has been improving and, dare I say, was good this year. Shocked

It's time to stop living in 2005; Rogers is showing himself to be the real deal.

He played much better this season, but this guy was a top 10 pick. In no way has he lived up to his draft position. We could have had Shawn Merriman or Demarcus Ware instead, so I can't say that this was a well used draft pick.

[Californiaskin]

Hailskins666- your original post in the by now infamous "We Suck" thread stated that the answer to fix the many team problems that you have pointed out is to "Blow it up!" That means major overhaul. I cant believe that the team would actually improve if we started over from scratch wiith new coaches and players and more turmoil......As weve seen from the past that does not seem to work either......The last thing developing NFL superstar Jason Campbell needs right now is a new playbook and some turmoil to deal with (yeah hes had some turnovers but fricken Ramsey could not hold Jasons jock) The D-fense is pretty fricken good when healthy and if you think Williams D stratagey is a weak spot your kidding yourself.

Also how do you know Saunders would NOT want to stay and be the O coordinator? Dudes getting paid the jack and I hardley think hes a hot head coaching prospect anymore. At least not anywhere that would pay him as much as dan does.

I too am here to talk football just like you have so vehemently defended your position to do the same with other posters and you respond to them harshley when your position is critisized .yet when I evalkuate your position you respond with the same garbage " what a lousy no thought post"

O K genious lets actually hear what you think should happen that will make things better and accomplish what we all want: Superbowl. Whats your better plan...... "Blow it Up"....... Come up with a better idea than any of the other board members have come up with and quit flaming about how "We Suck" just to get a rise out of everyone..........

Lets go John Madden..............what should the team do exactly. Youve stated the teams not heading in the right direction.......whats your master plan.......Do you have one?.......or just flaming away on your own lousy no thought post?

[Redskin in Canada]

I too am here to talk football ...

Man, you cannot cure FRUSTRATION and ANGER among many fans and posters at this time. REASON will not assist you. ONLY some victories will send them back to watch the games happily with their hot dogs and beers.

Please remember that this team has not lived up to its expectations even a couple of years before Dan Snyder purchased it. We have over a decade and a half of hard times. Joe is simply paying the price of accumulated frustration and unreasonable expectations for a quick fix.

A LYNCHING MOB atmosphere has never been cured with REASON. They need entertainment, bread and circus, if you wish. They need a win TONIGHT.

[hailskins666]

Irn-Bru, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on rogers.

Hailskins666- your original post in the by now infamous "We Suck" thread stated that the answer to fix the many team problems that you have pointed out is to "Blow it up!" That means major overhaul. I cant believe that the team would actually improve if we started over from scratch wiith new coaches and players and more turmoil......As weve seen from the past that does not seem to work either......The last thing developing NFL superstar Jason Campbell needs right now is a new playbook and some turmoil to deal with (yeah hes had some turnovers but fricken Ramsey could not hold Jasons jock) The D-fense is pretty fricken good when healthy and if you think Williams D stratagey is a weak spot your kidding yourself.

Also how do you know Saunders would NOT want to stay and be the O coordinator? Dudes getting paid the jack and I hardley think hes a hot head coaching prospect anymore. At least not anywhere that would pay him as much as dan does.

I too am here to talk football just like you have so vehemently defended your position to do the same with other posters and you respond to them harshley when your position is critisized .yet when I evalkuate your position you respond with the same garbage " what a lousy no thought post"

O K genious lets actually hear what you think should happen that will make things better and accomplish what we all want: Superbowl. Whats your better plan...... "Blow it Up"....... Come up with a better idea than any of the other board members have come up with and quit flaming about how "We Suck" just to get a rise out of everyone..........

Lets go John Madden..............what should the team do exactly. Youve stated the teams not heading in the right direction.......whats your master plan.......Do you have one?.......or just flaming away on your own lousy no thought post?

well, lets see. since you can't read, i'll quote it for you again.....

period. there are no two ways about it. from top to bottom.

we've ripped apart every aspect of the team on this board, and it is not getting better. we are terrible from one end to the other. you can't lay blame on just one aspect. we suck, period.

this team(coaches and trainers included) is spineless and heartless. nothing is changing for the better. its the same crap, week in and week out. it's time to blow it up and start over. back to the drawing boards.

snyder HAS to bring a GM in this time around. he's tried everything else. he's gotten the best talent that money can buy. he's gotten the best coaches money can buy. and yet the redskins are still, for some reason, trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

there is a 'losing' atmosphere that surrounds this team. for some reason, it seems that losing is OK, as long as you look like you tried hard doing it. i for one am sick of it. its to the point now that watching them play is comical. the redskins are the redskins worst enemy. we are that bad. as a matter of fact, we are 6-5 when it comes to beating ourselves this year. the only real loss was to NE, in six other losses, we help the other team more than we helped ourselves. that is piss poor effort on the players' part, and complete crap preparation on the coaches part.

time to blow it up and get back to the drawing board. we need GM that has a long term plan, longer than 3 or 4 years, to build a solid foundation. we need to be building a team that will be better in five years than it will be next year. enough of the short-sightedness. enough of the 'robbing peter to pay paul' approach. think about long term, not just 'making a run at the playoffs'. build a team from the ground up that will come to play football, year in, year out, and make a legitimate run at the superbowl, not just the playoffs, EVERY YEAR.

i am just disgusted with just about every aspect of the redskins right now. i really don't see any positives coming out of what is taking place at redskins park right now. we need to get younger, faster and smarter as a team, and all of that ain't gonna happen over night. and it is going to mean trimming the fat, and cutting a few players and coaches in the process. but that is the only way to help this team..... a fresh start in the right direction.

[/rant]

i think that pretty much sums my thoughts up. as stated, there is no 'long term' plan in effect with this team. we need a GM to lay things out. someone to keep a plan in effect, throughout coaching changes, free agency and the draft. this team has been 'win now' since snyder aquired it.

oh, and since we are hurling insults.....

O K genious lets actually hear what you think should happen that will make things better and accomplish what we all want: Superbowl.

dude, if you are going to throw punches, at least try not to look like an idiot doing it, eh genious.

[Skinsfan55]

I too am here to talk football ...

Please remember that this team has not lived up to its expectations even a couple of years before Dan Snyder purchased it. We have over a decade and a half of hard times. Joe is simply paying the price of accumulated frustration and unreasonable expectations for a quick fix.

A LYNCHING MOB atmosphere has never been cured with REASON. They need entertainment, bread and circus, if you wish. They need a win TONIGHT.

The team didn't live up to expectations, but when Job Gibbs took over we were actually IN BETTER SHAPE than we are now. As currently constructed the Redskins are older, and without as many dynamic playmakers. I don't really see how someone could argue differently.

Also saying that Gibbs is a victim of the fans "unreasonable expectations for a quick fix." is one of the most nonsensical things ever said on this board. Gibbs has had 3 offseasons and 3.5 years on the field to try and build a team and what we've come up with is a team that's old and shows no real promise for the future.