NFC Beast Offensive Rankings

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:40 pm

The Cowboys were very interested in Brunell, and you can bet they would have traded Quincy Carter for him in a heartbeat...

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:32 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:The Cowboys were very interested in Brunell, and you can bet they would have traded Quincy Carter for him in a heartbeat...

Only if he were released. We were not interested in Couch for a trade or Garcia. Lets see you guys gave up a 3rd pick this year for a 33 year old, injured QB. We gave up a 3rd next year for a 24 year old blue chip prospect. Come on now unless you win a superbowl in the next 2 years then the deal was not worth it. You guys got screwed. A high 3rd pick could have been a good starter with a decent scouting staff.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:37 pm

yeah, bulechip qb's ALWAYS pan out :roll:

...it's about trying to win now dawg!

we all know that gibbs isn't going to coach for ten more years and you can bet anything that parcells isn't either. it would be stupid to take on some project qb.

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:40 pm

surferskin wrote:yeah, bulechip qb's ALWAYS pan out ...it's about trying to win now dawg!

we all know that gibbs isn't going to coach for ten more years and you can bet anything that parcells isn't either. it would be stupid to take on some project qb.

Hopefully they wont coach for another 10 years, but i can see parcells putting several young assistants into place like he is doing now. As for gibbs i see Williams the only one being able to take over. Williams had good talent at Buffalo and that did not pan out.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 2:54 pm

gambit187 wrote: Only if he were released. We were not interested in Couch for a trade or Garcia. Lets see you guys gave up a 3rd pick this year for a 33 year old, injured QB. We gave up a 3rd next year for a 24 year old blue chip prospect. Come on now unless you win a superbowl in the next 2 years then the deal was not worth it. You guys got screwed. A high 3rd pick could have been a good starter with a decent scouting staff.

That's not the point. The point is Mark Brunell is better than Quincy Carter, and if the Cowboys were given the chance, they would have traded Carter for Brunell. Are you debating that?

I'm not convinced we got "screwed", and I'm also not convinced that we only have a two-year window with Brunell. Look at guys like Gannon and Elway, who were at their best in their late 30s.

Now, let's say Henson flops (you know, kind of like he did as a Yankee) and Brunell starts for two years, does okay, but we don't win a Super Bowl. Ramsey is allowed to develop. The Redskins win the Super Bowl in Year 4 with Ramsey starting and Brunell backing up. Did we still get screwed?

Just so you know, the only starter in the league who was drafted in the third round was Josh McCown of the Cardinals, who is quite possibly the worst starter in the league. A breakdown of rounds:

1: 15
2: 4 (including your man Quincy)
3: 1
4: 2
5: 2
6: 3
7: 1
8: 1
9: 1
U: 2

Now, is trading a third round pick for the ninth highest rated passer in NFL history really that ridiculous?

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:02 pm

[quote="gambit187 Lets see you guys gave up a 3rd pick this year for a 33 year old, injured QB. We gave up a 3rd next year for a 24 year old blue chip prospect.[/quote]

I'd prefer: Lets see you guys gave up a 3rd pick this year for the 9th rated passer in NFL history. We gave up a 3rd next year for a washed up, wannabe third baseman who hasn't thrown a pass in years.

Spin it any way you want - Casserly snookered the Girls!!!

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:05 pm

I don't really think Casserly snookered the Cowboys. The Cowboys did get a first-round prospect for a third round pick. At the same time, I don't think the Jaguars snookered the Redskins. Both teams drastically improved their quarterback situations in two different ways. Is that really so impossible?

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:14 pm

Casserly was brilliant in drafting Henson with a 6th without knowing if the guy would ever play. Then having no use for him he puts him up for sale - knowing that teams could simply wait and re-draft him. But he gets a buyer - maybe snookered is the wrong word - but he and his FO were smiling like hogs in slop that they unloaded the "blue chipper"...

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:22 pm

Well let see here are the players drafted in 3rd the last 10 years in the skins spot they have this year

69 Dallas Jason Witten TE Tennessee 2003
70 Minnesota Offord, Willie SS South Carolina 2002
67 San Diego Cody, Tay CB Florida State 2001
67 Atlanta Simoneau, Mark MLB Kansas State 2000
66 Chicago Tucker, Rex G Texas A&M 1999
66 St. Louis Little, Leonard DE Tennessee 1998
65 Dallas Coakley, Dexter OLB Appalachian State 1997
66 N.Y. Giants Oben, Roman T Louisville 1996
68 Washington Pounds, Darryl CB Nicholls State 1995
71 L.A. Rams Lyle, Keith FS Virginia 1994

Now as you can see there are some good ones and some bad ones, but it all depends on your draft department and if you have FAITH, in your scouts and the process you have in place.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:38 pm

What is your point? You said the Redskins could get a "good starter" at quarterback with that pick. Presumebly one better than Mark Brunell. Now where is your evidence to back that statement up? Of people you have listed below, none of them even play a skill position, unless you count Witten at tight end.

But okay, we are supposed to have faith in our scouting department to draft a quarterback in the third round. How about instead we have faith in our front office to trade that same draft pick for Mark Brunell? How is a trade not having faith in our organization but a draft pick is?

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:42 pm

gambit187 wrote:
Steve Spurrier III wrote:The Cowboys were very interested in Brunell, and you can bet they would have traded Quincy Carter for him in a heartbeat...

Only if he were released. We were not interested in Couch for a trade or Garcia. Lets see you guys gave up a 3rd pick this year for a 33 year old, injured QB. We gave up a 3rd next year for a 24 year old blue chip prospect. Come on now unless you win a superbowl in the next 2 years then the deal was not worth it. You guys got screwed. A high 3rd pick could have been a good starter with a decent scouting staff.

Your absolutly correct. We could get screwed....however I would take a pro-bowl player that still has talent over a blue chip baseball player. I hope it pans out for you guys because you need it.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:43 pm

you've got to admit gambit, that list did NOTHING to prove your point

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:49 pm

Steve Spurrier III wrote:What is your point? You said the Redskins could get a "good starter" at quarterback with that pick. Presumebly one better than Mark Brunell. Now where is your evidence to back that statement up? Of people you have listed below, none of them even play a skill position, unless you count Witten at tight end.

Now SSIII, maybe those scouting departments were SO good they weren't targeting a QB in the 3rd round! Nah...game, set, match SSIII...

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:49 pm

gambit187 wrote:
surferskin wrote:yeah, bulechip qb's ALWAYS pan out ...it's about trying to win now dawg!

we all know that gibbs isn't going to coach for ten more years and you can bet anything that parcells isn't either. it would be stupid to take on some project qb.

Hopefully they wont coach for another 10 years, but i can see parcells putting several young assistants into place like he is doing now. As for gibbs i see Williams the only one being able to take over. Williams had good talent at Buffalo and that did not pan out.

Gibbs has put several people in place. If you look at Williams and we in DC know he is trying to groom his son for future coaching positions. If Byner pays attention he wouldn't be a bad coach. Of course that's how Parcells works. He never stays anywhere long enough to be commital. He is proud of his ability to set up a winning team with winning coaches and then move on. He's a jurney man! Gibbs is different. He is not a jurneyman...that is why he is with the skins and not with several other teams who tried to hire him such as Atlanta and Carolina.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:53 pm

To be fair, Parcells has groomed Belichek and Coughlin, while all Joe Gibbs has produced is Joe Bugel (who is the coolest person ever, but wasn't a great HC) and Richie Pettibone.

I think both coaches will leave their franchises in good hands, Dallas has Payton in the wings, and hopefully Gregg Williams will stick around long enough to take over here...

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:59 pm

Wasn't Martz one of Joe's guys? (only for a year or two...)

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:03 pm

Actually, I think he was one of Turner's guys...

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:14 pm

of course

...geez, I seem to blank out the years after Joe - it all blends smoothly together and it's like he never left. Senility has it's advantages...

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:18 pm

The point I am making is that maybe Syder and crooked eye soprano guy Cerratto dont have a good scouting team in place. Also I am sure Gibbs will show change that. The big picture I am trying to get across to you guys is why pay such a high price for a guy that would have been released anyway and has said once he did get released he would have came to the Skins.

Now i could see giving up what you guys gave up for a Couch or Garcia.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:22 pm

and it comes down to the cowboys being too cheap and are now headed into another season with big :?:

at the qb position. now the redskins have two very capable qb's cuz we didn't wait until burnell was released.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:25 pm

First of all, I cannot believe you think Couch is more valuable than Brunell. In Brunell's last full season he was a 85.7 passer, while Couch's last full season he was a 76.8 passer.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... atsId=2485
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... atsId=4649

Second of all, Garcia is 34, Brunell is 33. How is Garcia worth a pick but Brunell not? (For the record, Garcia's last full season he was a 85.6 passer, practically identical to Brunell)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/s ... atsId=4924

And finally, there is a good chance Brunell would have been traded to someone else. San Diego and Miami are two teams that were very interested in Brunell, as I recall...

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:26 pm

surferskin wrote:and it comes down to the cowboys being too cheap and are now headed into another season with big at the qb position. now the redskins have two very capable qb's cuz we didn't wait until burnell was released.

A cOwBoY cant tell me squat after what the did to Emmitt Smith and he was going to take a pay cut :roll:

He just wanted to stay and be a..................

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:42 pm

redskincity wrote:
surferskin wrote:and it comes down to the cowboys being too cheap and are now headed into another season with big at the qb position. now the redskins have two very capable qb's cuz we didn't wait until burnell was released.

A cOwBoY cant tell me squat after what the did to Emmitt Smith and he was going to take a pay cut He just wanted to stay and be a..................

See here is where a fans opinion can come into play you guys say cheap, but i consider it as Jerry Jones learning his lesson. I say he has learned his lesson from overspending, while synder is still learning. Its funny all the so called experts think it was not a good move for the skins to trade a high 3rd pick for Brunell and you all disagree, but when they say something good about the skins you all do back flips. Deep down in all of your hearts you all know that was too high of a pick to give up for a 33 going on 34 past injuried QB, but you guys wont admit it cause u are too much of fans.

I can say Galloway for two #1's was stupid. Drafting Carter that high was crazy, but the Raiders where gonna take him so oh well. So honestly tell me what happens if Brunell gets hurt this year, or what happens in 2 years when he is 36 and decides to retire. The Cap hit is what 5 mill

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:48 pm

gambit187 wrote:The point I am making is that maybe Syder and crooked eye soprano guy Cerratto dont have a good scouting team in place. Also I am sure Gibbs will show change that. The big picture I am trying to get across to you guys is why pay such a high price for a guy that would have been released anyway and has said once he did get released he would have came to the Skins.

Now i could see giving up what you guys gave up for a Couch or Garcia.

Couch is not that great...he's good and if you can't find anyone then I would take him but not otherwise. He just seems to be running around alot. Garcia is not bad, but obviously not worth the money he was wanting. He was no Joe Montana. Your right we should have waited for Brunell to be let go...but what if Miami decided to get into the mix as they were and decided not to waite, or Dallas, or the Giants or Atlanta or Tampa Bay, or the Raiders or Sandiego. All these teams expressed interest. He's hardly washed up if several teams were interested.
Why has this whole debate about who's team has the best players in each position turned into who has the suckiest QB? Lets agree to disagree and point out that the Giants did not make any marvilous moves in free agency so more then likely they will not make a huge impact. Unless their Coach can pull a "Fox" like Carolina did. I find it hard to belive the Eagles will last to much longer. Several of their good players left. They might make the playoffs but not much further. They need someone with more accuracy at QB and they need receivers who can hold onto the ball. Dallas is an up an coming team and will make it to the playoffs simply because they have Parcells. If they can get a great QB then they will be hard to beat, but they still need a running back. The one they have now is to small and is not getting the job done. Get the runner and your talking super bowl. The skins have talent across the board. If Gibbs can get them working as a team which he will...He's just as good as Parcells at motivating players. We will all have to waite and see how the season pans out.

VRIEL1 · Post by **VRIEL1** » Mon Mar 29, 2004 4:53 pm

gambit187 wrote:
redskincity wrote:
surferskin wrote:and it comes down to the cowboys being too cheap and are now headed into another season with big at the qb position. now the redskins have two very capable qb's cuz we didn't wait until burnell was released.

A cOwBoY cant tell me squat after what the did to Emmitt Smith and he was going to take a pay cut He just wanted to stay and be a..................

See here is where a fans opinion can come into play you guys say cheap, but i consider it as Jerry Jones learning his lesson. I say he has learned his lesson from overspending, while synder is still learning. Its funny all the so called experts think it was not a good move for the skins to trade a high 3rd pick for Brunell and you all disagree, but when they say something good about the skins you all do back flips. Deep down in all of your hearts you all know that was too high of a pick to give up for a 33 going on 34 past injuried QB, but you guys wont admit it cause u are too much of fans.

I can say Galloway for two #1's was stupid. Drafting Carter that high was crazy, but the Raiders where gonna take him so oh well. So honestly tell me what happens if Brunell gets hurt this year, or what happens in 2 years when he is 36 and decides to retire. The Cap hit is what 5 mill

Oh my god....your soooo right. What will happen if Quincy goes down?...atleast we have a viable replacement who is tough and can pass long and can thread the needle. what does the cowboys have? oh sorry.