Another Couincidence

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:06 pm

C'fieldSkin wrote:I didn't say that it was indicative of their character, I'm just saying that claiming religion is bad overall as some seem to be doing is an untrue statement. I'm not naive enough to think that saying something makes someone a good person. I realize that it isn't relevant to the entire thread, but I was responding to c'villehog's statements reguarding Hitler and his use of religion.

Where did I say religion was bad overall?

I said it's not indicative of a person's character. No one has successfully refuted that statement, because they know it's true! It's not about religion, it's about people. People are selfish jerks, and some people will say anything to get what they want.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:07 pm

cvillehog wrote:Listen, clearly this is hard for you to grasp: someone's stated religious convictions says nothing about their character, good or bad. You said that this guy said he reads the bible, therefore he is clearly a man of great character. I said there is no way to draw that conclusion. I never said we shouldn't have drafted him. I never said he was a bad person. So, leave the strawman at home, and think objectively for a moment.

I agree cvillehog. As a matter of fact, let's just go ahead and preemptively arrest him for DUI, wife beating, and fine him for showing up late to the Super Bowl after a late night tryst with a prostitute.

After all, there is absolutely NO WAY he's saying the truth, and the coaches were certainly duped by a good con artist. :roll:

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:10 pm

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:
cvillehog wrote:Listen, clearly this is hard for you to grasp: someone's stated religious convictions says nothing about their character, good or bad. You said that this guy said he reads the bible, therefore he is clearly a man of great character. I said there is no way to draw that conclusion. I never said we shouldn't have drafted him. I never said he was a bad person. So, leave the strawman at home, and think objectively for a moment.

I agree cvillehog. As a matter of fact, let's just go ahead and preemptively arrest him for DUI, wife beating, and fine him for showing up late to the Super Bowl after a late night tryst with a prostitute.

After all, there is absolutely NO WAY he's saying the truth, and the coaches were certainly duped by a good con artist.

What are you talking about?

The statement at the beginning of this thread was that someone saying they are religious is a great indicator of that person having good character.

That is obsurd!

Have you ever heard this riddle before?

You stand at a fork in the road. Next to each of the two forks, there stands a guard. You know the following things: 1. One path leads to Paradise, the other to Death. From where you stand, you cannot distinguish between the two paths. Worse, once you start down a path, you cannot turn back. 2. One of the two guards always tells the truth. The other guard always lies. Unfortunately, it is impossible for you to distinguish between the two guards.
You have permission to ask one guard one question to ascertain which path leads to Paradise. Remember that you do not know which guard you're asking -- the truth-teller or the liar -- and that this single question determines whether you live or die. The question is: What one question asked of one guard guarantees that you are led onto the path to Paradise, regardless of which guard you happen to ask?

BernieSki · Post by **BernieSki** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:14 pm

Religion is just one tool that Joe Gibbs uses to separate players. He wants a player that he can count on through the good and bad times. One that is a good example on and off the field. He feels that his odds of getting that kind of player is better when a person has religion.

C'fieldSkin · Post by **C'fieldSkin** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:20 pm

cvillehog wrote:Where did I say religion was bad overall?

I didn't mean to imply that you said that. I was responding to your response to my statement that Hitler was in fact an atheist.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:20 pm

The bottom line is, there are exceptions to every rule but in general most people find character in those who take the time to consider a higher power and then go on to give themselves over to to an idea that we are servants to a greater good. Now you don't have to be religous to recognize an inherent good trait among those who are GENUINELY religous.

Cvillehog - if your only argument is that because someone says they are something, does not make it true, than I say, NO S#IT SHERLOCK :roll:

Some of us are guessing that its true in the case of the drafted Redskins because it is something Joe Gibbs believes in and he probably did more than read there press bio.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:24 pm

BernieSki wrote:Religion is just one tool that Joe Gibbs uses to separate players. He wants a player that he can count on through the good and bad times. One that is a good example on and off the field. He feels that his odds of getting that kind of player is better when a person has religion.

I would hope he is scouting based on talent. At any rate, that is besides the point.

The statement was "Religion is a good indication of character."

On which I called BS. You can't automatically assume someone has good character because they claim to be religious (Deion Sanders anyone?), or vice versa. So, unless you are telling me I'm a bad person because I have no use for religion, I fail to see what your point is.

Let me ask you this, does your thesis apply to all religions and denominations? Or, do you have to be the "right" religion?

Would a Muslim or a Mormon count? What about a Seventh Day Adventist? Or is it only protestant christianity that "counts"? If the quotation said that he reads the Torah daily, would you all be coming out excited about his character?

Morals and character aren't the sole dominion of christianity or any other religion.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:29 pm

fleetus wrote:Cvillehog - if your only argument is that because someone says they are something, does not make it true, than I say, NO S#IT SHERLOCK

No, fleetus, that is not my point. My point is that religion is not a good indicator of character, what's so hard to understand about that? Being religious does make someone a bad person. Being religious doesn't make someone a good person. Being irreligious doesn't make someone a bad person. Being irreligious doesn't make someone a good person.

A person's actions are the window into his or her character, not their professed faith.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:29 pm

cvillehog wrote:Would a Muslim or a Mormon count?

Like Gibbs would even get a sniff of a Mormon player before Andy Reid snatched him up. :lol:

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:32 pm

You're really trying to stretch your point, aren't you? If you're really interested in sticking to the original point and not go off on some personal belief of yours thean why would it be hard to accept that Gibbs uses religion as a judge of character and that he probably researches these players a little harder than whether it is written in their bio or not? Gibbs is a christian and may or may not be familiar with the Torah or Koran and what they represent. But Joe Gibbs knows the Bible and if a prospect claims to be a devout Christian, then I imagine Joe can dissect those traits prett well in a one on one interview. So leave the Hitler and Bin Laden stuff for some other forum. This is a Redskins football site, thanks.

BernieSki · Post by **BernieSki** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:34 pm

cvillehog - You bring up Dieon Sander. First point I do not care for Dieon Sanders, but he is a good point. Bring up one instance where he has done something on or off the field to get into trouble? The only thing I can think of is being one of if not the best DB ever.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:36 pm

BernieSki wrote:cvillehog - You bring up Dieon Sander. First point I do not care for Dieon Sanders, but he is a good point. Bring up one instance where he has done something on or off the field to get into trouble? The only thing I can think of is being one of if not the best DB ever.

He is jerk.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:37 pm

Oh geez, can we not go there? Deion did do things off the field, although I believe that was before he became deeply religous. BUT, this discussion is about a who Joe Gibbs just drafted not Deion.

skins81 · Post by **skins81** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:37 pm

I've never seen someone get so upset over the notion that there could be positive character traits associated with being religious.

It seems like someone needs to mention it once, and it's like pulling the string on C'ville so we can listen to him talk.

The notion that being religious can sometimes lead to a virtuous life is not that absurd.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:37 pm

fleetus wrote:Oh geez, can we not go there? Deion did do things off the field, although I believe that was before he became deeply religous. BUT, this discussion is about a who Joe Gibbs just drafted not Deion.

No, fleetus, this thread is about whether religious beliefs are a "good indicator of character."

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:39 pm

skins81 wrote:The notion that being religious can sometimes lead to a virtuous life is not that absurd.

So, is the notion that being irrelgious can lead to a virtuous life absurd?

Also, this wasn't about "sometimes" being virtuous. The statement was "religion is a good indicator of character."

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:48 pm

So yopu can't understand that Joe Gibbs, a devout Christian, would use his knowledge of that subject to judge the character of players who are also devout christians?

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:56 pm

fleetus wrote:So yopu can't understand that Joe Gibbs, a devout Christian, would use his knowledge of that subject to judge the character of players who are also devout christians?

That is beside the point, fella. Once again, the statement made was that "religion is a good indicator of character."

Not, "Joe Gibbs thinks religion is a good indicator of character."

I'm sorry if you were offended, but it is possible to be irreligious and have good characater and to be religious and be a jerk. This is just the way it is. Human nature. Whatever you want to call it.

This thread falls into the same category as another one where people were saying because we drafted someone who had been in the National Guard that there would be no contract holdouts, etc. Well, i have news for you, there is a certain RB in Denver that had been a Marine, and he held out of camp at least once.

Once again, it is a man's actions that expose his character, not his religious affiliation.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:05 pm

That same RB also kept his mouth shut when he was asked to not be the featured back anymore, even though he probably deserved to, and instead become a blocking FB! The contract holdout came when they went back on a promise that he would get another shot at starting RB.

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:09 pm

fleetus wrote:That same RB also kept his mouth shut when he was asked to not be the featured back anymore, even though he probably deserved to, and instead become a blocking FB! The contract holdout came when they went back on a promise that he would get another shot at starting RB.

I never said the holdout was without reason, but it did happen. The point is, most holdouts happen because they are the player's sole bargaining mechanism.

To say a military veteran will never hold out, or that a christian will have no character issues is simply incorrect, and based on false assumptions.

fleetus · Post by **fleetus** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:12 pm

Anyway, I've wasted way too much time on a pointless thread. Someone did say "Religion is a good indication of character". So you're right in regards to what that one person said. =D>

I think the whole discussion came about because some of us think Gibbs really made an effort to draft character guys. Guys who have a history of working hard, playing in more than one role, playing unselfishly etc. In that vein, I think we would like to give credit to Joe for doing his homework and purposely trying to improve this teams quality. :celebrate:

cvillehog · Post by **cvillehog** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 3:15 pm

fleetus wrote:Anyway, I've wasted way too much time on a pointless thread. Someone did say "Religion is a good indication of character". So you're right in regards to what that one person said.

Clearly.

fleetus wrote:I think the whole discussion came about because some of us think Gibbs really made an effort to draft character guys. Guys who have a history of working hard, playing in more than one role, playing unselfishly etc. In that vein, I think we would like to give credit to Joe for doing his homework and purposely trying to improve this teams quality.

Well, it is good to see someone give Gibbs some kind of "props" at all here lately.

But, I would think doing his homework would be the minimum we would expect from him.

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu May 05, 2005 2:16 pm

Hog Heaven wrote:Religion is a good indication of character

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? The crusades?
A guy named Bin Laden? Abu Ghraib and George Bush? Jimmy Jones? Jimmy Swaggert? Tammy Faye? The Nazi army? Pat Robertson's gold deals in Africa with mass murderer, Charles Taylor? Ronald Reagan's Contras, the Pilgrim's treatment of the Indians, Martin Luther's wars, Priests and their preoccupaion with little boys, Ralph Reeds' latest scandal.
Should I continue?
Why don't you take your nonsense out and look at it honestly once in a while.

Manchester_Redskin · Post by **Manchester_Redskin** » Tue May 10, 2005 3:13 am

crazyhorse1 wrote:
Hog Heaven wrote:Religion is a good indication of character

Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition? The crusades?
A guy named Bin Laden? Abu Ghraib and George Bush? Jimmy Jones? Jimmy Swaggert? Tammy Faye? The Nazi army? Pat Robertson's gold deals in Africa with mass murderer, Charles Taylor? Ronald Reagan's Contras, the Pilgrim's treatment of the Indians, Martin Luther's wars, Priests and their preoccupaion with little boys, Ralph Reeds' latest scandal.
Should I continue?
Why don't you take your nonsense out and look at it honestly once in a while.

Amen brother!

FanofallthatisGibbs · Post by **FanofallthatisGibbs** » Wed May 11, 2005 9:58 am

Whoa! And I thought this was a football board... Notice that the liberal anti-religious establishments types keep this unrelated thread going...

Maybe a bit of an inferiority complex 'cause we got God on our side???

Peace Out Brothers! Let's get back to football!