Get the big picture, game plan was'nt to win, it was to.....

1fan4ramsey · Post by **1fan4ramsey** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:26 am

.....get Ramsey some valueable playing time that will pay dividends for years to come. Gibbs wanted Ramsey to manage the game, while gaining confidence, moving the offense, and if we would have won, great, but that was'nt the objective of this game. In contrast to Ramsey's experience with Steve Spurrier last season, he will be allowed to develop, week by week, rather than get his brains beaten out immediately. Perhaps defenses will be easier for him to read if he is not concussed. Listen to what Bugel has to say, and it speaks volumes as to haow they want to bring Ramsey along ever so slowly "Patrick is a cold-blooded kid," said Bugel, meaning that he had physical courage in the pocket. "But we wanted to keep this kid clean his first time out. Not get him shellacked, not get him branded. Now he has something to build on. I'd give him a passing grade today. I thought I saw a different football player out there. Every decision was quicker. He made good reads [of the defense] and the ball was in the air fast."

And regarding the timing of the switch to Ramsey, I really think Gibbs wanted to wait until the playoofs were virtually out of reach to avoid the tremendous pressure that comes with trying to lead a team that is hanging on to playoff hopes and is expecting the quarterback to make some spectacular plays to get them there. Gibbs basically has to unteach Ramsey everything Spurrier taught him. Ramsey is basically being treated as a rookie.

So, the rest of the year is going to be used to mold Ramsey into an elite NFL qb. Don't pay attention to the wins and losses now, we're not making the playoffs anyway, just be patient as Gibbs is going to let Ramsey to continue to develop and progress in the coming weeks. Yeah, we lost the game in Philly, but just think if we would have gone with a more aggressive offense game plan and it would'nt have worked and Ramsey would have thrown 3 or 4 pics, his confidence would be ruined.

Growing pains are tough, but necessary, the way he's nursing Ramsey along is the right thing to do, remember, you have to look at the big picture in regards to the state of this team.

Raised2BeARedskin · Post by **Raised2BeARedskin** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am

You hit the nail on the head.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:42 am

No, he didn't. Joe Gibbs would never take that approach to a game. He plays them all to win.
That's putting a nice shine on a horrible loss, to be sure. "Oh, well...we weren't playing to win that game anyway. We just wanted to get Patrick some gametime...you know, to get him ready for next year."
Uh-uh. Sorry, but I ain't buying it.
Not my Joe Jackson Gibbs. No way.

Raised2BeARedskin · Post by **Raised2BeARedskin** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:48 am

Let's be realistic here...I'm sure we would all love to beat the Eagles. Ramsey hasn't played in over a year in a regular season game, the amount of pressure on him was ridiculous. Our O-line was going up against one of the best pass rush defenses in the league. The refs were biased and the fans were unbelievable loud. To put Ramsey in on that mix and expect him to throw like a Peyton Jr is unrealistic. You are asking too much. We will be ready in round 2.

Scottskins · Post by **Scottskins** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:06 am

I think it's a mix of both sides. I think Gibbs game planned to be the most beneficial for Ramsey without getting him beat up OR picked off more than a couple times. That being said, Joe still tried to win this game. The problem was that our OLine couldn't get Portis going, which was mandatory for us to have a shot at winning...

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:24 am

Scottskins wrote:I think it's a mix of both sides. I think Gibbs game planned to be the most beneficial for Ramsey without getting him beat up OR picked off more than a couple times. That being said, Joe still tried to win this game. The problem was that our OLine couldn't get Portis going, which was mandatory for us to have a shot at winning...

Right on. And there is no relief on sight. At least I do not see who can help our OL.

jdmills23 · Post by **jdmills23** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:12 am

1F4R is exactly right. I know that no coach is going to come out and say that we are preparing for next season. What kind of crowd would that bring to the game? I don't care if we win every game or no games from here to the end of the season as long as we continue to progress.

redskinz4ever · Post by **redskinz4ever** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:39 am

oh .... joe gibbs does not coach to win games,man that's a new one on me !!!

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:55 am

Joe Gibbs certainly gamplanned to win this game. He always tries to win every game. I would be upset if he didn't. As much as it might have been unrealistic to expect a win in Philly, we still tried and kept the game close for 52 minutes.

Winning breeds a winning attitude, losing breeds further losses. Gibbs knows this. Thats why he isn't going to concede any games down the stretch. If we have a strong finish this year and actually win a division game or two, then the team will feel much more confident coming into next season.

Chad

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:38 am

Get the big picture, game plan was'nt to win, it was to.....

.....get Ramsey some valueable playing time

Wrong! You Play To Win The Game! Hello!

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:46 am

1fan4ramsey I agree with the individual comments you make about the way Gibbs has been treating Ramsey 100% but you are dead wrong saying that Gibbs wasn't trying to win. I am only going to put this in caps so that people pay attention

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BEAT THE EAGLES IN A TRACK MEET

IMO, this was the best game plan all year. For once we moved the chains. We just didn't execute in the red zone or in most of the second half where the drops and penalties killed us, not the playcalling.

The whole point of a game plan like this is to keep the Philly offense off the field. This game was all about clock control. In the first half we did this brilliantly, I think we had 18mins of possesion or something. Philly only smelled the goal line once when they scored despite a very bad spot that should have forced a field goal and TO was shut out the entire half. On the other hand, we should have scored at least one TD and maybe two but that all comes down to execution. For once our offense helped our defense out.

We took our game plan and forced Philly to play by our rules. We dictated the course of play. If we were going to win this game it would be by grinding it out not airing it out. Again, anyone who thinks they can beat Philly in a track meet is dead wrong unless the happen to be Indy or maybe KC.

This WAS the winning game plan, no two ways about it!!!

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:34 pm

That makes as much sense as the fans who are questioning Gibbs' play calling. Joe is trying everything he can to win with who he has on the field.

The evaluations will come with the film watching but he and the other coaches are definetly not playing or calling plays based on anything but winning.

You cannot properly evaluate players if you don't see how they execute the plays that you think will work.

dnpmakkah · Post by **dnpmakkah** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:23 pm

I agree with the topic creator. Gibbs waited until he felt most of the pressure was off and now he would like to see Ramsey develop.

Of course every coach PLAYS TO WIN THE GAME, but I think the topic creator meant that it wasnt just about winning the game, Gibbs' game plan was very protective of Ramsey. Which, helped keep the game close until the end and also bring Ramsey along slowly.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:19 pm

dnpmakkah wrote:I agree with the topic creator. Gibbs waited until he felt most of the pressure was off and now he would like to see Ramsey develop.

Of course every coach PLAYS TO WIN THE GAME, but I think the topic creator meant that it wasnt just about winning the game, Gibbs' game plan was very protective of Ramsey. Which, helped keep the game close until the end and also bring Ramsey along slowly.

Well then isn't that the same as saying you were trying to win the game by not letting or putting Ramsey in a situation to lose the game. Without a doubt the game plan was only about winning and I think coach Gibbs put Ramsey and the team in the best position to win utilising this game plan. He let Ramsey air it out a few times and he didn't connect but when he ran the more conservative game plan Ramsey looked good and we moved the ball. The deep ball will come, we all know that Ramsey has a great arm but Joe Gibbs nullified Ramsey's weaknesses. Ramsey looked decisive out there and got into a good rhythm of getting the ball out quickly and avoiding getting sacked. IMO, Ramsey took great strides yesterday and that game plan gave us the best chance to win against a team like the Eagles.

ramseychick · Post by **ramseychick** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:21 pm

I agree. Patrick Ramsey will be around for a long time to come. This wea just the re-start of hopefully what will be terrfic NFL quarterback.

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:26 pm

I think he's taking great strides and smoothing out the rough edges. We all know the pure talent he has and I think his performance yesterday was very impressive -- he showed me that he could do the little things that many people doubted he could ever do like feel pressure, get the ball out quick, and avoid bad throws. He's only going to get better with time.

wonker · Post by **wonker** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:18 pm

Ramsey showed me nothing.

A quick out is not an easy throw, it's barely a throw. Cade McNown could throw the screen pass.

Ramsey has to prove he can run through his checks, hit the deep out. Keep corners confused.

Not throw a screen pass off a two step drop.

In my opinion, anyone who looks at Ramsey's performance against Philly as a developmental step is wearing Rose coloured glasses.

HTTR

wonker

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:35 pm

wonker wrote:Ramsey showed me nothing.

Really?

It did show me that he is the best option available. He gives us the best chance to win.

Joe was particularly hard (as his criticisms go) during his interview on Monday about the running game. He expected more of that. He called it "too tentative". In Gibbs-talk that is as open a criticism as you will get.

This does not mean Portis. It also means or OL. Did you notice that Portis was out for quite a while yesterday?

I missed a few long passes. They are always needed to keep them honest when you try to keep control of the clock and the game.

I SINCERELY hope this guy Wilson (rookie) plays great. I hope he can show why he should stay with us. The Steelers defense will be vicious. Ask MacNabb...

1fan4ramsey · Post by **1fan4ramsey** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:45 pm

dnpmakkah wrote:I agree with the topic creator. Gibbs waited until he felt most of the pressure was off and now he would like to see Ramsey develop.

Of course every coach PLAYS TO WIN THE GAME, but I think the topic creator meant that it wasnt just about winning the game, Gibbs' game plan was very protective of Ramsey. Which, helped keep the game close until the end and also bring Ramsey along slowly.

EXACTLY!! What I was trying to say is that developing Ramsey, at this point in his career, might be of equal or greater importance than winning the games. Considering we're out of the playoffs, and I'm sure Gibbs realises that we don't really have the personel to match up with the good teams at this point.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:05 pm

1fan4ramsey wrote:
dnpmakkah wrote:I agree with the topic creator. Gibbs waited until he felt most of the pressure was off and now he would like to see Ramsey develop.

Of course every coach PLAYS TO WIN THE GAME, but I think the topic creator meant that it wasnt just about winning the game, Gibbs' game plan was very protective of Ramsey. Which, helped keep the game close until the end and also bring Ramsey along slowly.

EXACTLY!! What I was trying to say is that developing Ramsey, at this point in his career, might be of equal or greater importance than winning the games. Considering we're out of the playoffs, and I'm sure Gibbs realises that we don't really have the personel to match up with the good teams at this point.

Not only did Gibbs play to win well Gibbs feels that we still have a shot :!:

Joe Gibbs Says Don't Count the Team out Just yet

ASHBURN, Va. (AP) - The head coach of the Washington Redskins says the next six games are the most important part of the season.

Joe Gibbs says it's how you finish ``down the stretch.''

Gibbs comments come in response to those who believe the Redskins' season has been over for weeks. The coach says the team is frustrated with its three-and-seven record and he's taking responsibility for the losses saying in his words -- ``I'm to blame.''

The players, however, don't agree. Tackle Ray Brown says the coaches are NOT the ones committing mistakes on the field. The Redskins face another tough challenge Sunday when they go up against the nine-and-one Pittsburgh Steelers.

Kick-off at Heinz Field in Pittsburgh is at one pm.

http://www.topix.net/nfl/washington-redskins

This is what we need to hear from our coach, but I still feel he is using the rest of this seasom to evaluate the players that he will keep and those that he's not sure about. Now if we can win during this process that will really give us something to look forward to.

wonker wrote:Ramsey showed me nothing.

A quick out is not an easy throw, it's barely a throw. Cade McNown could throw the screen pass.

A quick out is a designed pass or every team in the league wouldn't be using it

McNown might be able to make it but could Brunell :?:

wonker wrote:Ramsey has to prove he can run through his checks, hit the deep out. Keep corners confused.

Not throw a screen pass off a two step drop.

Once Ramsey went through his reads and saw that the deep and intermediate routes were covered he checked off to his 3rd reciever. This is something he would have not done last year. That alone is a plus because in the Gints game he was still forcing these passes and turning the ball over

wonker wrote:In my opinion, anyone who looks at Ramsey's performance against Philly as a developmental step is wearing Rose coloured glasses.

Actually anyone that doesn't see Ramsey's performance as a step in the right direction may want to check their glasses

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:52 pm

dnpmakkah wrote:...but I think the topic creator meant that it wasnt just about winning the game, Gibbs' game plan was very protective of Ramsey. Which, helped keep the game close until the end and also bring Ramsey along slowly.

It's okay. You can call him 1FanforRamsey rather than "creator".
We're all informal like that, around here. :lol:

You both have got it weirdly backwards. Joe overprotects all of his quarterbacks, and always has. The qb, on the other hand, generally rewards Joe with a SB ring for having done so.
Patrick needed a pared-down, vanilla offense to run, since he's not ready to run the gauntlet yet. So, Patrick got what Patrick needed, and he'll be a house afire next week.

Raised2BeARedskin · Post by **Raised2BeARedskin** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:58 pm

Dont forget...Joe Gibbs is the ONLY coach to have three different QB's on the Super Bowl Champion team! I think I trust Joe Gibbs' with his QB decisions. OK OK SURELY not Brunell...but everyone makes mistakes.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:46 am

tcwest10 wrote:Patrick needed a pared-down, vanilla offense to run, since he's not ready to run the gauntlet yet. So, Patrick got what Patrick needed, and he'll be a house afire next week.

And if not next week before the end of the season.....

Just a matter of time

hkHog · Post by **hkHog** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:59 am

Raised2BeARedskin wrote:Dont forget...Joe Gibbs is the ONLY coach to have three different QB's on the Super Bowl Champion team! I think I trust Joe Gibbs' with his QB decisions. OK OK SURELY not Brunell...but everyone makes mistakes.

I just saw today on ESPNews Monday Morning Quarterback that Joe Gibbs and Jay Schraoder (sp) have the highest coach/QB combo winning percentage of all time and they didn't even win a Super Bowl together! Crazy!