Somebody else from ESPN that thinks....

daddywatson · Post by **daddywatson** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:12 pm

Haven't seen this posted yet and since we're all digging pretty hard right now to find some/any news we can. Thought this was kinda cool.

Fact or Fiction: The additions of Owens and Kearse should secure a fourth straight division title for the Eagles.

Mark Schlereth
FACT
The Eagles had one major problem on offense last season and that was a lack of a big-time receiver. Terrell Owens is going to open this offense up and give QB Donovan McNabb the receiving threat he's lacked throughout his career. Defensively, Jevon Kearse gives excellent defensive coordinator Jim Johnson another tool to work with to stop the Eagles up and coming divisional foes. There's no doubt that the Eagles can get it done again this season.
Merril Hoge
FICTION
Washington is still a better team than Philadelphia and will win the division. Too much is being made of Philadelphia's acquisitions when they didn't do as well as the Redskins. It's Clinton Portis' move to Washington that's going to decide this division, not Owens and Kearse's.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1832621

Nice to see one of Fat Lenny's co-workers disagree with him. :lol:

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:36 pm

Still better?

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:41 pm

yeah. didn't you know that 5-11 is WAY better than 12-4?!? what's the matter with you?

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:46 pm

Oh, what a difference a year makes. I remember Hoge bashing us last offseason. He said that we were unorganized in our pursuit of free agents. They had Vinny Cerrato on the show (when it was called NFL Tonight or something like that) and he invited Hoge to come to a practice and see how practices were run. I don't know whether Hoge actually went but Vinny defended us pretty well.

skinfaninla20 · Post by **skinfaninla20** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:48 pm

Yes still better, I believed we had a better team the last few years, they just didn't live up to their potential. Remember the Miami game, the Chicago game, the game against the Saints, Tampa Bay even Buffalo? We had them, but just gave up to early. I had never been so frustrated before

daddywatson · Post by **daddywatson** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:57 pm

Even Schlereth backed us some last year. But even he rode the Eagles bandwagon pretty well. Oh and GF... Look closer into the article. I believe he's talking about this years teams. Comparatively speaking. But if you do want to look back the last couple of years, that's ok. Even then we had the better roster, IMO. Our teams problems stemmed mostly from bad coaching and schemes. Did I happen to mention bad coaching??

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:03 pm

i remeber hoge saying on nfl matchup last year that the skins would never go anywhere under spurrier. and that was before the season started. good prediction. i guess he doesn't want to get left behind by the gibbs bandwagon

wonker · Post by **wonker** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:16 pm

ESPN needed someone to offer the "fiction" or else it would have to be called "fact."

I think we're kidding ourselves if we think we're at Philly's level this year. We need to give Joe one year to get all the proverbial ducks in a row.

They are loaded, but they are getting old (DT, OL). We'll have our day soon.

HTTR

wonker

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:27 pm

I think that you can make the statement that the Redskins have more talent than the Eagles, but you certainly can't say that the Redskins are better. We have a very talented team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball, but haven't lived up to our talent for years. Philly has some talented players, but they, like the Patriots, tend to rely on blue collars guys and solid coaching, schemes, and fundementals. It has also helped them that the NFC East has not been very competetive in recent years.

Because the Eagles win games it makes it seem that they have more talented guys than they really do. Likewise, since the Redskins have been losing it makes it seem as though our talent level is less than it really is. That's why our very talented O-Line is constantly maligned in the press. Perception becomes people reality.

Chad

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:43 pm

chaddukes wrote:I think that you can make the statement that the Redskins have more talent than the Eagles, but you certainly can't say that the Redskins are better. We have a very talented team, particularly on the offensive side of the ball, but haven't lived up to our talent for years. Philly has some talented players, but they, like the Patriots, tend to rely on blue collars guys and solid coaching, schemes, and fundementals. It has also helped them that the NFC East has not been very competetive in recent years.

Because the Eagles win games it makes it seem that they have more talented guys than they really do. Likewise, since the Redskins have been losing it makes it seem as though our talent level is less than it really is. That's why our very talented O-Line is constantly maligned in the press. Perception becomes people reality.

Chad

I dont know about the skins having more talent then the eagles.

QB :Eagles
RB: Skins, but eagles depth is better
O-line: push
TE: Eagles
WR: Eagles

Dt: eagles
DE: Eagles
LB: Skins
CB:push
SS:Eagles

I think also the eagles have talented people for there system, whereas Gibbs will need this year to evaluate the talent he has for his system. Hope this thread is not Flaming.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:45 pm

You forgot FS and special teams.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:51 pm

it does seem that the eagles have people that "fit" their system. i mean look at trotter. was a monster in philly, but a bum here. and hugh douglas, also a monster in philly, and now a bum in jax. vincent will probably be a bum in buf. philly and new england have by far the best front office and coaching combos in the nfl. they know what they need, and how to make it all work together.
as far as the skins beating philly for the division, it is a possibility, as long as we don't beat ourselves like in years past.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 1:54 pm

hailskins666 wrote:it does seem that the eagles have people that "fit" their system. i mean look at trotter. was a monster in philly, but a bum here.

He was a bumb in Philly too. Monsters do not lead their defense to mediocrity year after year against the run.

wormer · Post by **wormer** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:00 pm

I'm as big a fan of "our lord and savoir" and as big a hater of Philly as anyone, but this is just insane.

For the past 4 seasons Philly has been 11-5, 11-5, 12-4 & 12-4. Made it to the NFC championship game the past 3 years and was in the Divisional playoff the 4th year.

During that same time our beloved Skins have not even been above .500 ONCE!

Come on guys. I don't mind a little homerism but this is going a bit too far.

You can't talk the talk until you walk the walk.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:08 pm

General Failure wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:it does seem that the eagles have people that "fit" their system. i mean look at trotter. was a monster in philly, but a bum here.

He was a bumb in Philly too. Monsters do not lead their defense to mediocrity year after year against the run.

i remember him always blitzing the middle, and killing us. :lol:

i guess i just expected the same thing while he was here, and he never produced.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:12 pm

I have to say that putting us ahead of Philly is ridiculous. They have been consistent winners for quite a while now, while Redskins are just starting what hopefully will be a similar run of excellence.

I'm not convinced, however, that they have better talent than us. Rather than rank the teams by position, I'm going to do it by unit, because I feel that is more useful:

Offense: Redskins

One reciever does not an offense make. There is no doubt that they will be vastly improved with Owens, they lost my arch enemy Duce Staley, and while they will finally have plenty of big play ability with Owens and McNabb, I'm not convinced they have the ability to consistently control games.

I really believe the Redskins have the potential to be a juggernaut on offense. Brunell has been incredibly efficent his entire career, and while his passing yards and touchdown totals have been slowly sliding over the years, his completion percentage and quarterback rating have remained excellent. He has a star in Coles and a group of recievers that goes five deep. Mix that in with a stud tailback in Portis and what should be a vastly improved offensive line, this could honestly be a top-5 offensive team. As long as Portis doesn't get hurt, we are that talented, and that deep.

Defense: Eagles

As much as I like our secondary and linebackers, not to mention Gregg Williams, our defensive line is very weak. So even while the Eagles face problems at corner and middle linebacker, they still have the stronger unit. Keep in mind though, the Redskins will be much better than last year, and while the Eagles might be better than last season after adding Kearse despite losing Vincent and Taylor, still won't be as good as the units from their first two NFC title game runs.

Special Teams: Eagles

As much as I like all the Redskins kickers and return men, David Akers is a stud and the Eagles always find a guy to return kicks. Additionally, the Redskins are notorious for bad coverage play, and I don't think Joe Gibbs is the Special Teams coach, although I'm sure it will be better than in the past.

Coaching: Redskins

Andy Reid is no slouch, but he's not a Hall of Famer either. It may take Gibbs a few weeks to adjust, but he is a top-5 all time coach.

So in conclusion, they are two very talented team. The difference is the Eagles aren't looking at a lot of overhaul this season, which should make them the favorite to win the NFC East again. However, if both these teams get to the Playoffs, with Gibbs settled in nicely and the with the thoughts of "4 straight" in the back of Eagle players' heads, it might be a different story...

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 3:13 pm

Blitzing is all he was ever good for. It's one play you could count on him not being out of position for ... at least for too long.

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:34 pm

gambit187 wrote:I dont know about the skins having more talent then the eagles.

QB :Eagles
RB: Skins, but eagles depth is better
O-line: push
TE: Eagles
WR: Eagles

Dt: eagles
DE: Eagles
LB: Skins
CB:push
SS:Eagles

First off, and this isn't directed at you Gambit, there is a big difference between talent and success. Talent is just one part of what makes a good team. When the Redskins beat the Dallas Cowboys with the Scab's it wasn't because the Scab's were more talented than the Cowboy's. I personally think that the Panthers were more talented than the Patriot's but I knew the patriots would win.

Talent is very subjective and you can't help but have a subjective opinion. But I do think that the Redskins have more talent than the Eagles. Its just that the Eagles have had more solid schemes, fundementals, tenacity, and desire than the Redskins.

******************************************************

Gambit,
As for the Direct comparison based soley on talent I have to disagree with you on a few areas.

I would have to say:
Starting QB: Eagles
QB Depth: Redskins
O-Line: Redskins (Based Solely on talent not on success)
TE: Eagles
WR: Redskins (Coles out performed TO last year, even though I would agree that TO is more talented than Coles. However, the Redskins definetly have more quality depth, including young potential starters in Jacob's and McCants and Veteran leadership in Thrash.)
Starting RB: Redskins
Depth at RB: Eagles

The Redskins offense is far more talented than the Eagles!

Defense

DT: Eagles
DE: Eagles, if Kearse is injured then the DE's aren't nearly as intimidating....still better than the skins though.
LB: Redskins, the eagles have made positive strides in this area.
CB: Redskins...Its tough but I think I have to go with Smoot and Springs here v.s. the two Rookies in Philly.
SS: Eagles
FS: Skins

Eagles Defense is clearly more effective, but I think that is primarily because they have put the focus in the right area...the Line, versus the Redskins efforts at improvimg the LB's. Talent wise I have to give a slight nod to the Eagles. But clearly the Eagles use their talent more effectively.

Overall, the Redskins exhorbinant talent on offense give them an edge over the Eagles who have only a slight edge on Defense.

Chad

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:44 pm

Please sir, tell me the name of this free safety that you think is better than Dawkins.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 4:46 pm

General Failure wrote:Please sir, tell me the name of this free safety that you think is better than Dawkins.

Agreed...

wonker · Post by **wonker** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:15 pm

[quote="Steve Spurrier III"][quote="General Failure"]Please sir, tell me the name of this free safety that you think is better than Dawkins.[/quote]

Agreed...[/quote]

Yeah, I'd like to see this answer too.

Taylor will be a monster in year 3 though. A killer.

HTTR

wonker

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:34 pm

I would have to say:
Starting QB: Eagles
QB Depth: Redskins
O-Line: Redskins (Based Solely on talent not on success)
TE: Eagles
WR: Redskins (Coles out performed TO last year, even though I would agree that TO is more talented than Coles. However, the Redskins definetly have more quality depth, including young potential starters in Jacob's and McCants and Veteran leadership in Thrash.)
Starting RB: Redskins
Depth at RB: Eagles

The Redskins offense is far more talented than the Eagles!

Defense

DT: Eagles
DE: Eagles, if Kearse is injured then the DE's aren't nearly as intimidating....still better than the skins though.
LB: Redskins, the eagles have made positive strides in this area.
CB: Redskins...Its tough but I think I have to go with Smoot and Springs here v.s. the two Rookies in Philly.
SS: Eagles
FS: Skins

Exactly. Both of these teams have weaknesses, and I believe this analysis accurately portrays both teams better than Gambits try.

I believe that next year will be even more interesting once Gibbs gets his system fully in place and knows who to shed and what to look for. This season will be great, but I think next season will be the real treat.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:36 pm

Dawkins, INMO is the best freesafety in the league. We will see how talented he is, when he's playing both CB spots and the SS spot next season :wink:

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:37 pm

I don't like anything that Hoge says anyway, but only because he was so horrible in Tecmo Superbowl.

wait. . .what?

ii7-V7 · Post by **ii7-V7** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 5:37 pm

General Failure wrote:Please sir, tell me the name of this free safety that you think is better than Dawkins.

Well, based purely on raw talent I think that Taylor is better than Dawkins.

Chad

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Somebody else from ESPN that thinks....

Somebody else from ESPN that thinks....

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