The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Joe G. · Post by **Joe G.** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:17 am

Why does everyone say Brunell is going to start easily. I mean USA today, Espn, and networks like that. Didn't they hear Joe Gibbs say just because I pay someone more doesn't mean there going to start. Or he said it was open competition. I guess not.

floridaskinsfan · Post by **floridaskinsfan** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:24 am

I believe it is an open competition, but I also think Ramsey would have to be much better than Brunell to win the starting job. That is okay, it was pointed out earlier today or yesterday-Brunell will probably be hurt and Ramsey will come in often this year. Maybe the O-line will not let that happen.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:24 am

to quote myself in an earlier post.....

BringThePain! wrote:I'm sorry.... I know it's an open competition.... but it's really Brunell's job to lose..... I can't see Patrick beating Brunell in camp.... There both learning a new system..... They both have great arms and there both fundementally pretty good.... Brunell's got more experience and is a proven winner...... so he has the advantage.... he would have to screw up pretty bad in my opinion to not get the first crack at the starting job..... it's his to lose.....

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:28 am

You can add Darnerien McCants to that list...he thinks Brunell will be the starter too.

I think Brunell will be the starter...BUT, i WANT Ramsey to lead the team from game 1 through January.

If Brunell wins the job then it is very likely that Ramsey will play at some point in the season...but what would happen when Brunell is ready to come back? That is going to be the crazy part, not the pre-season competition.

Trust in Gibbs though, he will make the right decision and you have to admit that Brunell can read a defense a lot quicker than Ramsey...Brunell has seen it ALL over the years. But then again, Ramsey is a smart, dedicated dude w/ a rifle arm.

Glad we have them both.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:36 am

History says the guy that makes the most has to start because of free agency/ Salary Cap Impact thats what ESPN USAToday and everyone else THINKS but look at the Steelers their backups make more than the starter

What they all forget is Joe Gibbs hasnt coached in the Salary Cap era and jugding from what I hear Joe Gibbs thinks the Salary Cap is for limiting the amount of money that can a TEAM be spent on PLAYERS and Coaching is for determining who is the best PLAYERS to be on the feild for the TEAM

So I won't be surprised if Brunell is the starter and I won't be surprised if PRam is the starter

I know whoever is the starter will be the one that proffs himself to Joe. Gibbs hasn't worked with either QB in the past, but Joe's past work with QBs lets me overlook the comments of ESPN USAToday and everyone else who says MarkB/PRam WILL be the starter THEY DONT KNOW none of us do

I do Know our backup will be better than some of the starters on other teams in the NFL

skinsfan1 · Post by **skinsfan1** » Fri May 21, 2004 11:42 am

oafusp check your pm

Skin Diesel · Post by **Skin Diesel** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:07 pm

What a great debate to have, Brunell vs. Ramsey. Either guy will do very well as long as our running game is solid. Just be glad we're not Dolphin fans, who are debating whether it'll be Jay Fiedler or A.J. Feely. How awful would that be? That team is in big trouble (o.k., forget about our game against the 'Phins and last year, when Fiedler looked like Dan Marino. That was Spurrier and not Gibbs). Anyway, I agree with most of you who say that both Brunell and Ramsey will probably both see some time this year. Don't expect any major injuries to Brunell, however, as he has had more than enough time to rest up and heal any old wounds. And let's all be glad that we've got two guys that would win a starting job on over half of the other NFL teams.

Joe G. · Post by **Joe G.** » Fri May 21, 2004 12:48 pm

I do trust in Gibbs that is why I think Ramsey will start. I am not mad at Gibbs its everyone saying that Brunell is going to start and ignoring Gibbs saying its open competition.

welch · Post by **welch** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:41 pm

Experience says that Gibbs will start whoever is best, regardless of the contract. He has dealt with agents; he has dealt with big contracts. He doesn't care.

Example: Jay Schroeder was the big star young gun QB, making about $1 million, led them to the NFC championship in '86 (a 12-4 regular season, two losses to the Giants, who won the NFC, and then SB 21). Doug Williams had started at Tampa, before signing for the USFL. Beathard/Gibbs and Cooke signed Williams for $450,000...very high for a backup QB, but a lot less than Jay. And Jay was the QB of the future.

So: who started 22? Who led the Skins to 5 TD's in the second quarter?

biznitchn · Post by **biznitchn** » Fri May 21, 2004 1:45 pm

heres an idea play them both rotate them in or whoever is better at the time...or use different packages or each game the best qb for the job scrambling ability or pocket qb maybe maybe not but fun to think about like someone said we have two great qbs and pretty good depth as a whole that will help us when we beat the patriots in the superbowl

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:01 pm

biznitchn wrote:heres an idea play them both rotate them in or whoever is better at the time...

Sounds like Steve Spurrier's Fun n Gun

Matthews, Wuerfull, Ramsey
Ramsey, Wuerfull, Matthews,
Wuerfull, Mathews, Ramsey, Gardner

skinswin · Post by **skinswin** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:35 pm

Ramsey was doing a pretty good job last season when he got hurt, the job should be his to loose. He will be a much better QB if they just go with him. Brunell is great to have there for ramsey to listen to but that is it. Ramsey is the future not Brunell.

THE RAM · Post by **THE RAM** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:50 pm

I totally agree with skinswin, THE RAM is THE RAM and it´s his job to lose, I´ve never seen a QB with so much potential losing his job. GO THE RAM

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri May 21, 2004 2:54 pm

THE RAM wrote:I totally agree with skinswin, THE RAM is THE RAM and it´s his job to lose, I´ve never seen a QB with so much potential losing his job. GO THE RAM

Compadre, ¿que es lo que dices? The Ram is under a whloe new regime. He gets mad props for the hits he took, but other than that, he's only been a starter for 3/4 of a year. He's hardly cemented himself in the position.

Mark is a seasoned veteran, and a threat -- especially in Madden. :wink:

THE RAM · Post by **THE RAM** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:50 pm

Mark is a seasoned veteran

That´s exactly was I say, he´s not a threat, he´s a veteran with two injured knees, although he got hurt last season he lost his starting job against a rookie.
Ramsey is not a rookie, he is a young and a good QB with a lot of potential.
1983 Joe Theisman was not a scrambler but a good passer
1987 Doug Williams very precisive but not a srambler.
1991 Mark Rypien strong arm but not a scrambler.

Joe needs to give Ramsey a good chance of playing, Brunell will be good for a year maybe two and then what, do you think Ramsey will want to stay for another year as a backup?, I don´t think so.
As I mentioned before, Marino, Montana, Aikman, this qb´s were so succesful becuase they started in their rookie seasons.
Let´s go THE RAM.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:56 pm

THE RAM wrote:... Marino, Montana, Aikman, this qb´s were so succesful becuase they started in their rookie seasons.
Let´s go THE RAM.

Leaf, Blake, Shuler, Manning, Dilfer, Leftwich, Harrington, Carr....

examples of those who struggled early on. PRAM is nice, and very talented, but, hopefully he can get a year under his belt (maybe halfa a year?) of Gibbs' tutelage before leading this team. For now, you want someone who's been where Patrick has yet to go, deep into more than one season.

wandkwitham · Post by **wandkwitham** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:02 pm

Brunell has never thrown for more than 19 TDs in a year. And that was for a team that included Fred Taylor, Boselli and the underrated Jimmy Smith. Also in 2002, and to some extent 2001 the Jags offense struggled mightily. Granted the talent level around him dropped off somewhat in those two years, I still dont think its a good omen. I don't understand why Gibbs so overpaid for him. He has the clearcut edge on being the starter since he was Gibbs's choice to bring in and Ramsey was someone else's guy. Ramsey will really have to outperform him to win the job.

A minor point - I always thought of Thiesman as a scrambler - didnt he return punts? We know he couldnt kick them - but return them yes.

REDEEMEDSKIN · Post by **REDEEMEDSKIN** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:08 pm

Yes, we definitely overpaid for Brunell, and I believe Joe admitted having jumped too quickly at Brunell, when Kurt Warner was gonna be available. Now, can you imagine Brunell's experience matched with the great talent we have on offense? PRAM is good, but holds on to the ball to long, I think Brunell has already learned to get rid of the ball. He'll remain healthy because of that, and will play the entire year.

Theismann returned punts? That was definitely before my day. Interesting.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:09 pm

I don't understand why Gibbs so overpaid for him.

I believe his contract his backloaded and has a length of 7 years I believe. He will most likely retire way before he becomes a cap problem.

Gibbs is a brilliant coach. He will simply start the better player. If he truely is the pro-redskin fanatic he seems to be, then he'll do whats best for the team and not for one mans ego.

box8276 · Post by **box8276** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:11 pm

of course PRam is gonna start, Brunell was signed just in case Pram gets hurt......and for motivational purposes. Every great player had someone pushing him.....put a chip on PRam's shoulder and WATCH OUT!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:56 pm

Tim Hassleback IMO could be a very good QB given the oppurtunity to develop. I hope he gets a chance someday either with us or with another team, I'd hate to see his abilities ignored and eventually lost.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:04 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Tim Hassleback IMO could be a very good QB given the oppurtunity to develop. I hope he gets a chance someday either with us or with another team, I'd hate to see his abilities ignored and eventually lost.

did you see the same TH i saw last year? the same one who can't throw the ball over fifteen yards without it looking like a wounded duck? the same TH that had a 0.0 passer rating vs the pukes at HOME? i liked him at first, because of the effort, but after watching games over and over, everytime he throws the ball long i cringe and hope for a skins reciever to come down with it. the guy doesn't have an nfl arm. hell, after he did so well after the miami game i was so desperate i said patrick who. but after reality set in, it was another mistake of the spurrier era. i hope that hamden beats him out for third string. as a former DB, i'm sure you do like him, nothing but easy bait.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:21 pm

as a former DB, i'm sure you do like him, nothing but easy bait.

Hey, hey, shhhhh, don't tell anyone.

LOL. Im not saying he's better than Ramsey but that he'd make someone a decent QB. I...I'm glad that we have him as a backup, I wouldn't feel totally horrible if he had to go in. I haven't seen Hamden play much over in Europe but he seems decent also. I guess I said that because I know all of these guys have goals and dreams and I'd like to see them all achieve them or at least have a chance to.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:35 pm

i just don't think timmy has the arm it takes to be an nfl QB. i like his heart, but the physical attributes just aren't there.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Fri May 21, 2004 9:42 pm

Who cares who starts ?
I just want to win.