WRs Next Year

[riggofan]

I've been hearing and reading a lot about Jackson and Garcon this week. Both are free agents in 2017, and the team has some expensive decisions to make. I've kind of had my mind made up on this most of the season, but I'm not so sure now, especially with what's gone on with Docston.

Who do you like the team to bring back (or not) and why?

[riggofan]

Here's the WaPost Insider take on it today:

Who should the Redskins retain, Pierre Garcon or DeSean Jackson?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/foo ... n-jackson/

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Pierre, he makes the tough catches and is a good teammate... likely can be had at a discount t to DJack.. With all this "Philly flirting with Djax" going on I say good riddance! We've won many games with him out- because he misses a LOT of games.

He's a one trick pony; speed. However he is not durable, and that speed will fade in these next couple years as he gets older. Then, to top it off, we don't even use him properly, enough. If we aren't gonna take multiple shots a game and let him open up the D, what's the point?

I'd also add that he is a Teddy bear in blocking plays... a liability and often will take plays off, or jog the route instead of Max effort. Peace!

Crowder, Garçon, Doctson, and Reed+ Davis is still a solid corp. Add Grant/Ross/ Harris (really been hoping to see more Harris in the redzone, he is our biggest wr, that's healthy) and a speedy Rook to battle it out for the last spot....

If Djax was smart he'd stay loyal to the team that didn't cut him and take a team friendly deal to help us take the next step next year... but he wont

[DEHog]

At this point I trust Scot in getting us players, so unless either one of them wants to play for close to a vet minimum (which I doubt) I’d say neither. I’m from the school of thought that it’s better to get rid of a player a year early than a year too late.

[riggofan]

At this point I trust Scot in getting us players, so unless either one of them wants to play for close to a vet minimum (which I doubt) I’d say neither. I’m from the school of thought that it’s better to get rid of a player a year early than a year too late.

Interesting. I don't see either of those guys taking vet minimum.

If you let them both get away, don't you think we'll have to pay considerable $$ for a top guy to replace at least one of them?

I've heard Terrelle Pryor's name thrown out there as a suggested target. Younger guy like you mentioned.

[riggofan]

Pierre, he makes the tough catches and is a good teammate... likely can be had at a discount t to DJack..

See, I've been with you on this all year. I just like Garcon. Does his job, makes an impact, still looks like he has it.

I've heard the argument though that DJax as a legit deep threat has made things open up a lot for all of those shorter passes to guys like Garcon and Reed. Any thought on that?

[Deadskins]

Pierre, he makes the tough catches and is a good teammate... likely can be had at a discount t to DJack..

See, I've been with you on this all year. I just like Garcon. Does his job, makes an impact, still looks like he has it.

I've heard the argument though that DJax as a legit deep threat has made things open up a lot for all of those shorter passes to guys like Garcon and Reed. Any thought on that?

That's what that Post article said. He also makes the point that D Jax offers something the Redskins don't otherwise have. But I'm with DE that it's better to part a year early than a year late. And Garcon has played great for this team. I like him better as a player and teammate than Jackson.

[DEHog]

At this point I trust Scot in getting us players, so unless either one of them wants to play for close to a vet minimum (which I doubt) I’d say neither. I’m from the school of thought that it’s better to get rid of a player a year early than a year too late.

Interesting. I don't see either of those guys taking vet minimum.

If you let them both get away, don't you think we'll have to pay considerable $$ for a top guy to replace at least one of them?

I've heard Terrelle Pryor's name thrown out there as a suggested target. Younger guy like you mentioned.

The key is having a healty Jordan Reed, like the Pats with Gronk he opens things up. I just think in our system you don't need big name WR's, that money needs to be spent elsewhere. I like what I see in Crowder, Doctson, Harris and Reed as a start.

[SkinsJock]

I don't see these guys paying a lot of money for anyone - the primary focus is BPA through the draft and young free agents that will not cost a lot to find out if they can be coached up

If Garcon or Jackson (or both) can get a good payday elsewhere, more power to them - this applies to everyone that is more interested in a huge payday (which they thoroughly deserve) than having financial security and being a part of this franchise

[markshark84]

I think this is a difficult question. From an age perspective, they will both be 31 next season. WRs are generally full contributors (before age begins to get them) until they are about 33. So, if you resign one or both, you do it for a contract that is essentially 2 years and is cap friendly to cut them thereafter.

With that out of the way, Garcon has been more of a consistent player while DJack has been more of our downfield threat. DJack has been less consistent with regards to injuries, but he is still relatively healthy when you compare him to Reed (who is basically guaranteed to be out 5 games/year). When you look at stats, it is pretty obvious that Garcon is a larger contributor --- but how will that change when Doctson is healthy? Doctson will essentially serve a similar role to Garcon. DJack's contributions are outside sheer passcatching and TDs --- he stretches the field and makes things easier on our WRs (and QB) as a result. He also hasn't been an off-field distraction as he was in PHI.

My one thing I have noticed with Garcon is that his YAC isn't as good as it was 2 years ago. I remember in 2012-2013 when he caught a quick slant he was off and a serious threat to take it to the house. Now, not so much. This year, he'll catch it, then do this weird back step combined with a stiff arm that gets him nowhere. I think this has something to do with age, personally. He's just not as explosive as he used to be.

You also have to take Cousins' style into consideration. Cousins is the type of QB that much prefers good/disciplined route-running --- which is why Crowder and Reed have been so successful. I think in this regard, Garcon is stronger, but not by much.

Regardless, it will all come down to $$$. Both would be great resigns ---- if the price is right. We can't pay them close to what they are making now --- because frankly they aren't worth it. You need to sign them to cap friendly deals where you can cut them in a couple years if necessary. I doubt they will be interested in that --- and if they aren't, you have to let them walk. However, I am hopeful that we will be able to resign one or both. As far as personal preference, it is difficult to say. If Doctson plays like a first round pick, then resign DJack. If he isn't, I prefer Garcon. But I don't have a crystal ball....

[riggofan]

And Garcon has played great for this team. I like him better as a player and teammate than Jackson.

Me too. And its a good point about parting with a guy a year early instead of a year late.

What's a realistic age though to expect an elite WR to fall off?

[riggofan]

I just think in our system you don't need big name WR's, that money needs to be spent elsewhere.

I don't think its about big name guys though. Its about two WRs that we know can play and do what is expected in this offense.

I know what you're saying about the "spending money elsewhere" part. My personal preference though would be to spend money to keep our own guys (assuming they're players you want) and focus draft picks on defense if possible.

[riggofan]

I think this is a difficult question. From an age perspective, they will both be 31 next season. WRs are generally full contributors (before age begins to get them) until they are about 33. So, if you resign one or both, you do it for a contract that is essentially 2 years and is cap friendly to cut them thereafter.

Answered my question, thanks.

Do you think its fair to say that Garcon would be more likely to play well beyond 33 though? He hasn't had the injuries like DJax has, and he's not as reliant on speed. I could see him playing later. Remembering Henry Ellard!

[DEHog]

I just think in our system you don't need big name WR's, that money needs to be spent elsewhere.

I don't think its about big name guys though. Its about two WRs that we know can play and do what is expected in this offense.

I know what you're saying about the "spending money elsewhere" part. My personal preference though would be to spend money to keep our own guys (assuming they're players you want) and focus draft picks on defense if possible.

So you consider them as "our guys"?

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I think discussing all the other free agents is also warranted... we can't determine the value of either of we aren't looking at the supply. I know Pryor has been mentioned, although I think he is more of a risk- being his first year as a wide out scares me... but he's been Cleveland's only ray of hope.

But what about a signing a true number 1 and let both our high end #2s walk?

IDK who is available, I think Sammy Watkins? Others?

[SkinsJock]

It's simple - find the best player and just pay him

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Alshon Jeffrey
Doug Baldwin
Anquan Boldin
Kenny Britt
Vincent Jackson

Then there are some people we might be able to get cheaper with little drop off if any, like:

Kenny Stills
Brandon Lafell
Kendall Wright



Not exactly top tier wideouts... being such, the market might drive the prices up on both our soon to be free agents.

Glad I never bought either of their jersey.... fearing they'd be gone soon seems to be much more likely then I had thought.

Here's the 2017 free agent list

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesota-vi ... son-12309/

[oj]

Keep both, bring Doctson along and pick one other rookie up to cut loose Grant & Ross.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

IDK if BOTH is a possibility... but damn, itd be nice to.

Djax has been mentioned for his speed, taking the top off, homering hitter.... but there needs to be some more emphasis on his ball tracking abilities. The bomb he just reeled in from Kirk prime example. Djax had his man beat, and was making his way to the middle field going from right to left... Kirk's throw was a tad short and way right... but Djax was able to get his head around track the ball and make an extremely athletic adjustment to reel in the ball and make the catch. 1 more 60+ yard td and he ties Jerry Rice for all time too.. wow.


ALSO... Garçon has been incredibly consistent, with about as good of hands as we've seen in the B&G. Mr clutch no doubt!
-his off field contributions, is our teams nomination for the Walter Payton award, don't get mentioned either.

How do you choose?

[welch]

Certainly Garcon and maybe Jackson.

Why Garcon? He's the closest the current Redskins have to Art Monk: a big WR, fast enough, good hands, can block. Sir Arthur was the closest the Redskins could find to replace Charley Taylor: big, fast, good hands, ferocious blocker (as well as runner and two-way player in college).

[SkinsJock]

we should keep all of the good players we have - as the saying goes - "you cannot have enough good players"

it's not like we can't afford to pay both

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I doubt we can afford to keep both, sign Kirk.... AND upgrade the Defense at all

[mastdark81]

I doubt we can afford to keep both, sign Kirk.... AND upgrade the Defense at all

Djax is gone most likely. We just dont go to him enough to keep his 10mil salary at age 30+

He is a bonus to have, would try to resign but thats after we sign Kirk and defensive players.

[riggofan]

I doubt we can afford to keep both, sign Kirk.... AND upgrade the Defense at all

Probably not, but I think we could - and maybe should - afford to keep both and sign Kirk. Continue to build up the defense through the draft.

We'd probably be a little bit further ahead of the game if we'd drafted defense #1 this year.

Also, I don't quite see why anyone is anticipating that Garcon or Djax would be getting another $10m/yr contract? I think they can both be paid pretty well, but are 30 year old WRs really getting that kind of money?

[riggofan]

Alshon Jeffrey
Doug Baldwin
Anquan Boldin
Kenny Britt
Vincent Jackson

That's an interesting list. I don't think I'd take any of those guys over Garcon, would you?