Scott On Griffin

[OldSchool]

“No, I think [the 2015] season is going to tell a lot,” McCloughan said. “It’s going to tell a lot. We’ll see what happens heading up to the draft and all that stuff, but I don’t think you ever give up on a young quarterback that … took you to the playoffs as a rookie. I really don’t think you do that. Because they’re so hard to find and he’s still young. Give him the benefit of the doubt, he’s been banged up. You can say, ‘Yeah, the grass is greener,’ but who can we go get? If all of a sudden he goes somewhere and starts lighting it up, you know? And Jay’s system, that’s a tough system the first year for to learn, you know? So, I’m very curious to see how his second year goes. Very curious.”

McCloughan stopped short of guaranteeing that Griffin would be on the Redskins’ roster in 2015, but he made it sound as if Griffin will be a part of the team’s plans.

“I just don’t think you give up on a young quarterback until absolutely you have to,” he said.

McCloughan echoed those sentiments during an appearance with Grant Paulsen and Danny Rouhier on 106.7 The Fan a short time later when asked about developing a quarterback like Griffin."

Maybe I cynical but it looks to me that Snyder's new hire is on the reservation.

[SkinsJock]

From all reports Scot's evaluating every single player on the roster & also trying to figure out how to make the best out of what he's got

it's a process - let's see how it goes before we 'decide' how it's going to be

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

On the reservation?
I wouldnt call it cynical- you're just wrong.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but becuase you cant seem to get over the griff hate ill indulge you.

Your boy Cousins is a gutless wonder who is likely colour blind! And our options are whaaat?!
Like our new gm said- he took us to the playoffs, has had some BIG setbacks, is learning a new scheme (nearly a new position from his background)- coupled with poor protection, AND most importantly hes under contract.

Im not making a case to pick up his option, despite my belief in him- merely saying what any smart man should. He is ours. We gave up a ton. Hes flashed the skills and the Grit. There should be an open comp to see how badly these guys want it (Colt not an option for the starter imo). Griff can improve his foot work- can Kirk improve his vision and accuracy? Luckily both will benefit from a better line..

These statements are exaxtly what Scott should say. Not giving up, but definitely sending notice that EVERY stsrting position is eanred... as it should be

[DEHog]

On the reservation?
I wouldnt call it cynical- you're just wrong.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but becuase you cant seem to get over the griff hate ill indulge you.

Your boy Cousins is a gutless wonder who is likely colour blind! And our options are whaaat?!
Like our new gm said- he took us to the playoffs, has had some BIG setbacks, is learning a new scheme (nearly a new position from his background)- coupled with poor protection, AND most importantly hes under contract.

Im not making a case to pick up his option, despite my belief in him- merely saying what any smart man should. He is ours. We gave up a ton. Hes flashed the skills and the Grit. There should be an open comp to see how badly these guys want it (Colt not an option for the starter imo). Griff can improve his foot work- can Kirk improve his vision and accuracy? Luckily both will benefit from a better line..

These statements are exaxtly what Scott should say. Not giving up, but definitely sending notice that EVERY stsrting position is eanred... as it should be

Ask any coach and they'll tell it's much easier to correct Cousins than RG...IMO Cousins will be in the NFL longer than RG...

[oj]

I didn't hear the interview but it sounds wishy-washy to me, very disappointing. He is supposed to evaluate, thats not an evaluation thats wishful thinking.
We've had enough of that.

[Prowl33]

I didn't hear the interview but it sounds wishy-washy to me, very disappointing. He is supposed to evaluate, thats not an evaluation thats wishful thinking.
We've had enough of that.

If you listen to the whole thing youll get a different impression. He was also asked about possibility of drafting a qb and he responded with "All options are open"

About him on griff, i think he remembers tape he saw on him back in 2012 draft and is saying that he has shown he has ability, but also said numerous times he will review the tape.

Scot isn't a guy that bases a lot on what people say or think. He goes by what he sees on film.

[StorminMormon86]

Cut bait. Move on.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

On the reservation?
I wouldnt call it cynical- you're just wrong.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but becuase you cant seem to get over the griff hate ill indulge you.

Your boy Cousins is a gutless wonder who is likely colour blind! And our options are whaaat?!
Like our new gm said- he took us to the playoffs, has had some BIG setbacks, is learning a new scheme (nearly a new position from his background)- coupled with poor protection, AND most importantly hes under contract.

Im not making a case to pick up his option, despite my belief in him- merely saying what any smart man should. He is ours. We gave up a ton. Hes flashed the skills and the Grit. There should be an open comp to see how badly these guys want it (Colt not an option for the starter imo). Griff can improve his foot work- can Kirk improve his vision and accuracy? Luckily both will benefit from a better line..

These statements are exaxtly what Scott should say. Not giving up, but definitely sending notice that EVERY stsrting position is eanred... as it should be

Ask any coach and they'll tell it's much easier to correct Cousins than RG...IMO Cousins will be in the NFL longer than RG...

Lol ask Art briles! Haha seriously tho-
Whats Kirks record as a starter??? 1/8?? Turn over ratio?? I know he led the league with one and a 1/4 less games then any other qb until benched for the third stringer. :/
Broken any records?

I know the vast majority of our Redskins nation is done with Robert, and any excuses. I get that. 2012 mightve been all we get for all those picks, and for me- it was worth it.

The point is exactly what Scott has confirmed- you dont give up on a young qb who has already been THE guy. ROY over Luck and Wilson and Tanny- that happened! He has hit adversity but hasnt been broken, which is HUGE imo. His will power is inspiring to me, but more then anything we have nothing to GAIN by dropping him- so why be the Skins of the past and make a dumb move in haste just for it to blow up in our faces and have another probowler- on the wrong team

[OldSchool]

On the reservation?
I wouldnt call it cynical- you're just wrong.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but becuase you cant seem to get over the griff hate ill indulge you.

Your boy Cousins is a gutless wonder who is likely colour blind! And our options are whaaat?!
Like our new gm said- he took us to the playoffs, has had some BIG setbacks, is learning a new scheme (nearly a new position from his background)- coupled with poor protection, AND most importantly hes under contract.

Im not making a case to pick up his option, despite my belief in him- merely saying what any smart man should. He is ours. We gave up a ton. Hes flashed the skills and the Grit. There should be an open comp to see how badly these guys want it (Colt not an option for the starter imo). Griff can improve his foot work- can Kirk improve his vision and accuracy? Luckily both will benefit from a better line..

These statements are exaxtly what Scott should say. Not giving up, but definitely sending notice that EVERY stsrting position is eanred... as it should be

What a bunch of bunk. First, I was never a Griffin hater merely a critic there is a HUGE difference. I saw and pointed out a couple of years ago the serious flaws even Griffin's strongest supporters like Skinsjock seem to acknowledge now. I've been harshly critical of his performances and the Skins strategy of using 4 high picks and building the team around a college option QB that obviously can't read defenses quickly enough to function in the pocket. I have also criticized his narcissistic behavior, this doesn't make me a hater of this young man.

With respect to Cousins, I was his biggest booster on this board and clamored for him to play but after his last interception fest I started a thread entitled "I was wrong about Cousins." At this point I question if he can make it as a starter. He seems to have the quick mind for it and a good enough arm, but he needs to cut his interceptions probably by a third or maybe a half to be effective enough to be an NFL starter. Can he do it? I don't know, I don't know why he is throwing so many. Is it footwork, hurrying the process to much and getting fooled, sending tells to the defenders or a combination of things but unless he can get better he's a backup. I agree with a previous poster that Cousins appears be more fixable than Griffin.

What I want to see in 2015 is a competition between the 3 QBs on the roster for the job for the season. I don't want another season wasted on Griffin if Gruden doesn't believe he isn't the best of the 3 just because Snyder was foolish enough to spend 3 first and 1 second round pick for him. That ship sailed a long time ago and the Skins devoted 3 seasons to Griffin and to my eyes he looks the worst of the 3. Haven't seen enough of McCoy to really know what the guy has and with Cousins I see a lot to like but unless they can figure out why he throws so many picks and help him get that under control he's a liability also. Griffin needs to think much faster on the field and some other things but unless he shows some potential to speed up the thought process he's useless.

What I meant but on the reservation is I fear that Snyder wants another season devoted to Griffin and going along with that folly might be the price employees pay to work for Snyder. Hopefully that isn't the case this season. For 3 seasons that has been the case here and I'm sick of it.

[DEHog]

On the reservation?
I wouldnt call it cynical- you're just wrong.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but becuase you cant seem to get over the griff hate ill indulge you.

Your boy Cousins is a gutless wonder who is likely colour blind! And our options are whaaat?!
Like our new gm said- he took us to the playoffs, has had some BIG setbacks, is learning a new scheme (nearly a new position from his background)- coupled with poor protection, AND most importantly hes under contract.

Im not making a case to pick up his option, despite my belief in him- merely saying what any smart man should. He is ours. We gave up a ton. Hes flashed the skills and the Grit. There should be an open comp to see how badly these guys want it (Colt not an option for the starter imo). Griff can improve his foot work- can Kirk improve his vision and accuracy? Luckily both will benefit from a better line..

These statements are exaxtly what Scott should say. Not giving up, but definitely sending notice that EVERY stsrting position is eanred... as it should be

Ask any coach and they'll tell it's much easier to correct Cousins than RG...IMO Cousins will be in the NFL longer than RG...

Lol ask Art briles! Haha seriously tho-
Whats Kirks record as a starter??? 1/8?? Turn over ratio?? I know he led the league with one and a 1/4 less games then any other qb until benched for the third stringer. :/
Broken any records?

I know the vast majority of our Redskins nation is done with Robert, and any excuses. I get that. 2012 mightve been all we get for all those picks, and for me- it was worth it.

The point is exactly what Scott has confirmed- you dont give up on a young qb who has already been THE guy. ROY over Luck and Wilson and Tanny- that happened! He has hit adversity but hasnt been broken, which is HUGE imo. His will power is inspiring to me, but more then anything we have nothing to GAIN by dropping him- so why be the Skins of the past and make a dumb move in haste just for it to blow up in our faces and have another probowler- on the wrong team

Hard to judge a QB’s around here on win/loss record when you’ve have 3-13 and 4-12 back to back seasons. Wasn’t RG benched for the “third stringer” as well? I’m not saying I’m done with Robert because of what we gave up for him, we should see next year through…however that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a open competition at QB. 2102 seems like years ago, yes RG was very good running his college offense where his first read was usually open. By all reports RG doesn’t want to run that offense anymore…how’s that working out. He has zero pocket presence, so many times where’s there’s a pocket to step up in, he doesn’t. Doesn’t slide or roll….he usually takes off running in an unorthodox manner that ends with him taking some of the worst hits I’ve seen on QB. He just doesn’t know how to protect himself. He is terrible with his read progressions. Please doesn’t use Luck and Wilson in the same sentence as RG…yes he was ROY…who would you rather have right now??
If he blows up on another team then that’s our fault for not developing him…including next year, he’s been giving more than a fair chance. I think the strongest indictment of RG is that a coach, who you know was brought here to fix him, gave up on him in less than half of season!!
As for Cousins it’s interesting that you make an argument for RG to not give up on a young QB, but condemn Cousins after 9 games?? Kirk has a turnover issues, something that looking at film can fix, many young QB go through it, I think Gruden would have allow him to play through it if it wasn’t for the owner?? Honestly who looked the best this year running Gruden’s offense??

[OldSchool]

[/quote]
Hard to judge a QB’s around here on win/loss record when you’ve have 3-13 and 4-12 back to back seasons. Wasn’t RG benched for the “third stringer” as well? I’m not saying I’m done with Robert because of what we gave up for him, we should see next year through…however that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a open competition at QB. 2102 seems like years ago, yes RG was very good running his college offense where his first read was usually open. By all reports RG doesn’t want to run that offense anymore…how’s that working out. He has zero pocket presence, so many times where’s there’s a pocket to step up in, he doesn’t. Doesn’t slide or roll….he usually takes off running in an unorthodox manner that ends with him taking some of the worst hits I’ve seen on QB. He just doesn’t know how to protect himself. He is terrible with his read progressions. Please doesn’t use Luck and Wilson in the same sentence as RG…yes he was ROY…who would you rather have right now??
If he blows up on another team then that’s our fault for not developing him…including next year, he’s been giving more than a fair chance. I think the strongest indictment of RG is that a coach, who you know was brought here to fix him, gave up on him in less than half of season!!
As for Cousins it’s interesting that you make an argument for RG to not give up on a young QB, but condemn Cousins after 9 games?? Kirk has a turnover issues, something that looking at film can fix, many young QB go through it, I think Gruden would have allow him to play through it if it wasn’t for the owner?? Honestly who looked the best this year running Gruden’s offense??[/quote]

I agree with you Cousins looked better running the Gruden offense than Griffin, but I don't think we saw enough of McCoy to know. Maybe Griffin is Ashburn working away studying films to try to learn how to read defenses and make decisions quicker, if he isn't he lacks the will to succeed and will be out of the league soon.

I just want them to use the draft picks and FA money to improve the defense and OL and have a real QB competition amongst the 3 we have to determine the 2015 starter. Its stupid to take in account acquisition costs at this point the player is worth what they can produce on the field now and no more than that regardless how great and minor the expense of acquisition. Thinking otherwise is just foolish pride.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

No, Robert was benched (after returning from a significant injury [yes again]) for the 2nd stringer as Kirk was demoted to street clothes status after stinking it up!
Sorry u dont like Luck Wilson and Rg in the same sentence but facts are facts. If u think every pass was first read- you missed a ton of FUN games man. I'm not saying hes better then luck or anyone, but better (at least that year) then some want to admit.
Rg might've progressed had he not blown his ankle we shall never know. I didnt take it as coach giving up on him (like most did) as much as I took it as coach NOT giving up on the season; and deeming rg3 wasnt where he needed to be- agreed.
ive NEVER said get rid of captain Kirk, nor give up on him, so try not to put words in my mouth bro- ive maintained open comp at camp may the best man win- can you dig that? Cutting either player while on their cheapish rookie contracts, before seeing what theyve done to grow in the off-season, would be premature and ignorant imho.
The owner said bench Kirk for McCoy? Nah that was coach.

Kirks turnover issues are only half as bad as his late game melt down and his complete inability to get over a bad play. He throws an int and implodes. As in golf you have to have zero short term memory and move on and forget the last shot cus its over. Ive seen griff whiff then march back down and make up for it.. as well as final drives for Ws.. Kirk may very well out grow that- same chance Rob has at quiting the happy feet..

With that said, id say Griff looked best in this system vs Philly as he did his part and led us to victory. Kirks game vs the same team was impressive... up until the game was on the line.
Neither are perfect, but turning on either is just not smart business at this point- ya dig?

[DarthMonk]

I didn't hear the interview but it sounds wishy-washy to me, very disappointing. He is supposed to evaluate, thats not an evaluation thats wishful thinking.
We've had enough of that.

He has spent the last year watching college tape not Redskin tape.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I actually agree with that last part Oldskewl...
cutting ties or not should not be indicative on cost- a turd is a turn no matter what u paid for it.
We need to build our trenches, get better on the Defensive side of the ball, and alleviate the qbs role a little bit and see if either. Of these boys can hack it with less pressure (literally). I think both will be vastly better with another off-season and true comp. If we add some big pieces (literally again; I mean huge)! I think we will have some interesting battles in pre-season- I think itll be a matter of who closes the skill gaps better. I have my money on Griff improving in an improved pocket over Kirk developing the gritty will power he lacks. However, if he has more time and in turn makes less mistakes, and the D can hold- he might not need that gritt as much- so who knows

[SkinsJock]

btw - the new GM's first name is Scot ... might as well get that part right - nothing else makes much sense ....

there's an awful lot of doom and gloom speculating going on and this guy hasn't even been on the staff for a week ...

it's going to take a while for this kid to be able to help this franchise and we should at least give him a little 'credit'

I think from what we've heard and read this kid will do a decent job here and how hard will it be to do better than what we've had ...

the only worry or concern that I have has nothing to do with Scot prior to now - Dan Snyder has to stay out of the way
we all know that Dan likes to 'help' and I'm sure if he does offer, Scot will 'listen' - that is NOT a good thing

that's all - this kid will help the franchise and Jay if they (Dan & Bruce) let him do his thing

I'm willing to bet that he's very aware of what an opportunity this is for him and I'm sure he'll take advantage of that




I also think that at first he's got a pretty open mind about all the players that are here and will give everyone a shot at staying

it will be interesting to see how the players respond to this 'open competition' for starting status here

Every player's status is going to be based on what 'value' they are to this franchise going forward - THAT's ALL

[Prowl33]

If we are going to get really serious on this Griffin and Captain Kirk topic then let me weigh in with this.

Griffin will never give us, or any team, what they need to succeed. Lets say he plays like he did in 2012 again. Makes decent reads, throws with confidence and accuracy, and runs like a gazelle. The man is built for speed, he is tall, skinny, and like 0 fat. Every hit he takes rocks his world. You will never take the over competitiveness out of him, he will always scramble to make a play bevause thats his instincts, and he WILL get hurt again and again... career ending or not doesnt matter.

A QB will never ever get in a rythym and become elite without staying in the game. Every injury he takes to his legs will take away the primary advantage he has. Linemen need the same qb to start so they learn his cadence and tendencies in the pocket, knowing where he will be without looking. Receivers need a qb that knows how they run their routes and knows their speed. You cannot change that numerous times every year as Robert gets banged up and misses games here and there.

Cousins should be explored more. You know what he looked like? A newly starting QB who couldnt find his groove because he always has a defense in his face. Where robert and colt took the sacks, cousins threw the ball instead and threw int's. So give the man more time, and he will throw less. The rest can be coached with him given repetition and familiarity with his team mates and the system.

Not a lot separates an int from a reception, but for the other 2 if youre on your ass, youre on your ass. Give me the guy that can get the ball out and just needs to make better decisions on a whim.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

When did mcfly sell you the almanac?
Id love to tear apart your post, but have stuff to do.. in Kirks case theres a huge difference in an int and reception, seeing how he hits the wrong team square in the chest so often.
The debate goes both ways- if Kirk can evolve so can Griff and vice versa. I dont get why thats so complicated. I ride with griff.. he got a W this year, Kirk? He looked like *sh$t*. I didnt forget. While Griff had his fair share of doodoo, he was less poopoo then Kirk.

Again, i look forward to the competition come camp- and the tited ol drum gets beaten until then

[Countertrey]

Cousins should be explored more. You know what he looked like? A newly starting QB who couldnt find his groove because he always has a defense in his face. Where robert and colt took the sacks, cousins threw the ball instead and threw int's. So give the man more time, and he will throw less. The rest can be coached with him given repetition and familiarity with his team mates and the system.

Not a lot separates an int from a reception, but for the other 2 if youre on your ass, youre on your ass. Give me the guy that can get the ball out and just needs to make better decisions on a whim.

This cannot go unchallenged... I don't dispute that Cousins has plenty of upside... and can be coached up to be successful... but blaming a lack of time (for the majority of his picks) is simply bunk.

The vast majority of his picks had nothing to do with pressure... but with simply not completing the read. They were bad choices, regardless of the circumstance. He saw a flash of an open receiver, and failed to see what the defense was doing... and turned over the ball as a result... repeatedly.

Griffin's instinct is to run. Cousins instinct is Gunslinger. Both can be coached to some extent... but both come with their own vulnerabilities and risks.

Cousins will, likely, ALWAYS throw too many picks. With some quarterbacks, you simply endure, because they score lots of points (Farve, Brees)... but, mostly, gunslingers simply disappear from rosters (Grossman).

I continue to believe that Griffin still has lots of upside. I share some of the concerns, but, frankly, I think he will figure it out, given some healthy time, and some snaps behind a competent O-line that affords him the time to let the game slow down.

[Prowl33]

When did mcfly sell you the almanac?
Id love to tear apart your post, but have stuff to do.. in Kirks case theres a huge difference in an int and reception, seeing how he hits the wrong team square in the chest so often.
The debate goes both ways- if Kirk can evolve so can Griff and vice versa. I dont get why thats so complicated. I ride with griff.. he got a W this year, Kirk? He looked like *sh$t*. I didnt forget. While Griff had his fair share of doodoo, he was less poopoo then Kirk.

Again, i look forward to the competition come camp- and the tited ol drum gets beaten until then

The difference in an int and reception is usually ball placenent by a foot or 2, being a split second late on a throw, or missing a player because he was hidden or you were rushed into throwing.

When you are getting sacked you are seconds (emphasis on the plural there"behind the play, especially since captain kirk took half the sacks under the same conditions.

Regardless, griffin will never have time to develop because he will always get hurt, thats how his body is made and how he plays. Kirk atleast can give himself the opportunity along with the players around him... and if it doesnt develop then we have a good GM to find us a new QB.

Not saying their shouldnt be a competition, but just predicting what will happen either way

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

+1 CT
Yaaa.. I like the way u said that better then the way I did..

Sack rate cant be compared fairly considering Griff either didnt have our best lineman (amoung others) or he was banged up. Griffs line was not the same as Kirks, nor was the pass rushers he faced- sf minny hou even tampa bay over cards titans indy jax

[Countertrey]

+1 CT
Yaaa.. I like the way u said that better then the way I did..

Tha's cuz I akchully speak English!

[Prowl33]

I just think even if he has the ability to improve, he doesnt have the durability to improve. Some QBs are just like that, look at Sam Bradford, if he never got injured would he be a lot better than what he has been?

Ultimately im cool with what Scot and Gruden decide

[riggofan]

Sack rate cant be compared fairly considering Griff either didnt have our best lineman (amoung others) or he was banged up. Griffs line was not the same as Kirks, nor was the pass rushers he faced- sf minny hou even tampa bay over cards titans indy jax

What offensive linemen did Kirk have that Griffin didn't? Kirk was playing with Polumbus at RT and Polumbus got benched. Other than that the line was the same. The sack difference between RGIII and Cousins was RIDICULOUS. Even if you want to spot RGIII like ten sacks because he was semi-hurt, the difference is still mind blowing. I don't know what his problem is but Griffin is taking way too many sacks.

All that said, I'm open to all options. If the coaches and GM think they can still work with RGIII and he'll do better with some better players blocking for him, then let's see it. I'm going to support whatever QB they decide gives us the best chance to win.

[SkinsJock]

I love it when posters here 'expose' themselves ...

get over yourselves and try and pretend that you have an ounce of sense about what's really happening here

gotta love it

[Prowl33]

Sack rate cant be compared fairly considering Griff either didnt have our best lineman (amoung others) or he was banged up. Griffs line was not the same as Kirks, nor was the pass rushers he faced- sf minny hou even tampa bay over cards titans indy jax

What offensive linemen did Kirk have that Griffin didn't? Kirk was playing with Polumbus at RT and Polumbus got benched. Other than that the line was the same. The sack difference between RGIII and Cousins was RIDICULOUS. Even if you want to spot RGIII like ten sacks because he was semi-hurt, the difference is still mind blowing. I don't know what his problem is but Griffin is taking way too many sacks.

All that said, I'm open to all options. If the coaches and GM think they can still work with RGIII and he'll do better with some better players blocking for him, then let's see it. I'm going to support whatever QB they decide gives us the best chance to win.

Colts sack rate was almost as bad as Griffins too.

Ultimately, the decision of who starts needs to be made during camp, so we can have a starting QB set through all of preseason and get as many reps as possible before the season starts.