VENTING ... Why the Redskins and RG3 frustrate me

[HogHeaven1983]

Ownership complaints:

First of all, I am guessing that Snyder wants a winner, but is just clueless how to set up the building blocks to do it. He's still a too meddlesome and involved, wanting to have "fun" with his toy (sadly at the fan's expense). There are a few things he could have done 15 years ago and didn't. Maybe some day he will mature enough and become a good owner, but I am thinking that might be another 20 years away. First, since there is no salary cap on a scouting department, he could have built the most kick@ss scouting dept in the NFL -- every time he could get wind of a great NFL talent scout on some of the year-in, year-out NFL winners, he could have lured them away with huge contract salaries. Shoot rather than building a 100 million dollar team of old over the hill free agents in 1999, he could have been building a devastatingly great scouting department that could have found gems like Tom Brady in the 6th round, Richard Sherman in the 4th round, Russell Wilson in the 3rd round, etc. If you draft great, you will always have a winning team with tons of talent. Free Agency is a joke and no team should ever sign a high priced free agent ... not that you can't find some decent players in free agency, however they are typically either at their prime or past their prime and will be more prone to injuries -- plus paying them tens of millions throws your teams salary cap out of whack and can cause dissension amongst the rank and file players. Yes, occasionally you find a good free agent like DeSean Jackson -- but remember we could have drafted him ourselves (instead of Devin Thomas). The other thing Snyder could have done is made Fed Ex Field the premier stadium in the NFL. If the infrastructure wasn't there build a new stadium. They can design stadiums now with great acoustics that enhance crowd noise (like the Seahawks stadium). Another point is the field itself ... at Fed Ex it's the worst in the NFL. Is it a coincidence that RG3 tore himself up each time at Fed Ex? The field is just a mess and there is just no excuse. If you need to go with that new rubber pellet turf, do it. Finally, the ticket prices are just too out of whack. How much money does Snyder think he needs anyway? He's already a gazillionaire. The ticket prices are so high that he has trouble selling tickets to skins fans which is why there are ALWAYS huge numbers of the opposing teams fans at Fed Ex. Half the time our home field advantage is a disadvantage. I pine away for the old days at RFK where the rafters shook with chants of we want Dallas. Those days are gone. Finally he needs to just find some good coaches and stick with them for the long haul and not be changing them every couple of years. The best teams have stability. The Redskins will always suck as long as we have this revolving door. Honestly there are some great and charismatic ex Redskins players that I think might have it in them to be great coaches. Remember how Mike Ditka used to be a TE and turned into a great coach. You might laugh at me but I think Doc Walker might have that drive and charisma and knowledge that I think could turn him into a hall of fame NFL coach. How about hiring Brian Mitchell for Special Teams coach -- he knows what he's doing and doesn't sugar coat things. How about Chris ey for receivers coach or offensive coordinator -- he is one of the smartest ex football players I've every heard ... Anyone hear his weekly grading reports? Geez he knows his x's and o's. I am not saying these are all perfect solutions or if they would even take the job, but I think I would rather watch the skins play with some of these fiery and charismatic and brainy ex ballplayers calling the shots. Certainly they would be better than the likes of Spurrier and Zorn.

The enigma of RG3 :

First of all, I really hope this guy gets his sht together as we gave up so much for him. But dang, why can't he improve his mechanics? He footwork is awful and he just has some terrible habits. That last play against Minn was so awkward -- he just looked like a tangled gumby toy and all he could muster was a dead duck flutter at the feet of Garcon. Geez he could have run for the first down (or was he so exhausted (for some reason ... is he that out of shape?)) ... he did awkwardly collapse after throwing that flutterball. He has done tons of other things before that that have really annoyed me and has told me that he's very immature and a bit delusional, but I will let that slide for now for another post. RG3, this is your 3rd year in the NFL and it's time you actually spent time on your mechanics. Please! Honestly if I was GM of the skins, I would not pick up his option next year -- IMHO he's a lost cause and I would look for another QB in the first round of next years draft. But that's just me .... I am SURE I will have a lot of people on this board jump down my throat with this whole post. But just had to get this off my chest

Team Drafting Strategy:

It's crazy to me that Snyder was a fan of the Redskins in the 1980's. Didn't he notice that the reason the Redskins won 3 superbowls in 11 years is the HOGS? They had one of the best most dominating OL in the NFL for a decade. If you have a great OL ... it doesn't matter who your QB, RB, or WR's are ... The skins won with Rypien and Timmy Smith for gosh sakes! The line will open huge holes for any 6th round RB ... and the QB will have 10-15 seconds to find someone open. Yet for some reason the redskins are built backwards for the entire time snyder owned the team. Very few high draft choices spent on OL .... and we love drafting QB's WR's and LBs high. Geez build a great OL and they will control the clock and score points ... keep the ball away from the opposition ... put the other team in a hole and force them to play catchup ... then you force turnovers ... it's a tried and true strategy that worked for a decade under Gibbs. In any case, it's frustrating for an old time fan to watch these same mistakes over and over and over ... year after year.

Enough ranting.

[fabe]

I only have a couple of things to say about this.

1) The Redskins have been playing on grass for 80 years. I would personally be disappointed if we switched to astro-turf, which in turn requires your stadium to be a dome.

2) The reason why there aren't many offensive linemen drafted in the first round is the simple fact that they don't score touchdown/cause turnovers. There's really no winning when drafting with your first pick unless you can land a phenom. If we spent first round picks on linemen, then we would start complaining about not drafting a QB or WR. Hindsight is 20/20. Many teams, such as the Packers, Patriots and Chiefs have so-so offensive lines, yet they're still winning games. That's because their offense focuses on the skill positions.

Linemen aren't what they used to be. They used to be gigantic men who simply out-muscle the guys in front of them. That's not the case anymore. You need agile tackles to stay in front of fast pass-rushers, and you want quick guys who can move outside on screens and such.

[DarthMonk]

I only have a couple of things to say about this.

1) The Redskins have been playing on grass for 80 years. I would personally be disappointed if we switched to astro-turf,

Me too.

which in turn requires your stadium to be a dome.

2) The reason why there aren't many offensive linemen drafted in the first round is the simple fact that they don't score touchdown/cause turnovers.

That might be why WE don't draft them but plenty of other teams do.

There's really no winning when drafting with your first pick unless you can land a phenom. If we spent first round picks on linemen, then we would start complaining about not drafting a QB or WR.

Not if we were winning.

Hindsight is 20/20. Many teams, such as the Packers, Patriots and Chiefs have so-so offensive lines, yet they're still winning games. That's because their offense focuses on the skill positions.

No it's not. It's because they have "phenoms" - Rodgers, Brady/Gronk, Charles - or have better lines than people give them credit for - especially the Pats over the past several years. The Pats also have had some very good defenses and the one they have now does not suck.

Linemen aren't what they used to be. They used to be gigantic men who simply out-muscle the guys in front of them. That's not the case anymore. You need agile tackles to stay in front of pass-rushers, and you want quick guys who can move outside on screens and such.

Lotta truth here. Now they need to be all the things you say AND gigantic.

[fabe]

which in turn requires your stadium to be a dome.

I'm not sure if astro-turf is the rubber pellets that the OP was talking about, but that's what I'm referring to. You can't have that stuff outside. When it rains (which it does a lot here), then you thought it was slippery playing on wet grass? Imagine playing on wet rubber.

2) The reason why there aren't many offensive linemen drafted in the first round is the simple fact that they don't score touchdown/cause turnovers.

That might be why WE don't draft them but plenty of other teams do.

Yeah, but it's tricky to talk about this. When drafting in the first round, you want the best player available when it's your turn, regardless of position. Case in point is Jadeveon Clowney. The Texans didn't really NEED another pass-rusher, but they knew that they couldn't pass on him because he was clearly the best player to take with the first pick. I'm guessing that the thought process was either take Clowney or trade down. Another thing you factor in is "Will this guy be available in round 2?" When a player is a first round pick, they are held to a higher standard in performance (and you pay them more money). Sure, lots of teams draft offensive linemen in the first round, but there's a lot that goes into that decision. Even if you are desperate for a lineman, if there are no linemen available that are worthy of that first pick, then you pass on them. Like I said, it's tricky to talk about because there's so many factors that play into it.

Sorry for the details. I'm sure you already knew everything that I've said, but it's hard to explain drafting linemen in the first round.

There's really no winning when drafting with your first pick unless you can land a phenom. If we spent first round picks on linemen, then we would start complaining about not drafting a QB or WR.

Not if we were winning.

Obviously, but how many games are you going to win if you don't score touchdowns/cause turnovers?

Hindsight is 20/20. Many teams, such as the Packers, Patriots and Chiefs have so-so offensive lines, yet they're still winning games. That's because their offense focuses on the skill positions.

No it's not. It's because they have "phenoms" - Rodgers, Brady/Gronk, Charles - or have better lines than people give them credit for - especially the Pats over the past several years. The Pats also have had some very good defenses and the one they have now does not suck.

Well, in the case of the Packers, their offensive line is pretty shoddy. That's why they can't run the ball consistently, and also why Rodgers has been sacked 20 times (http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... sort/sacks). However, they're winning games and that's because they have built their team around their best player. They have more than enough talent at the receiver position, so they never have a problem throwing the ball downfield. The only flaw is that Rodgers has to move around a lot in order to make those plays. So, what I meant by my statement is that you build around your best players. Yes, those teams have phenoms, which is the reason why the team is successful, but those teams also built around those phenoms, which is the reason why those players are successful.

And yes, drafting linemen is a way to build around your best player, but as I've said it's tricky to talk about drafting linemen in the first round. The team would have to expect a lot from a lineman as opposed to a freaky-athletic receiver that you know can stretch the field.

Linemen aren't what they used to be. They used to be gigantic men who simply out-muscle the guys in front of them. That's not the case anymore. You need agile tackles to stay in front of pass-rushers, and you want quick guys who can move outside on screens and such.

Lotta truth here. Now they need to be all the things you say AND gigantic.

Blame Shanahan for that. He always favored the smaller, quicker linemen because they fit his zone-blocking/PA-Rollout schemes better.

[DarthMonk]

^^^

The Ravens play on the rubber pellet hybrid stuff and it's outdoors. I think most people with it do.

I agree with you completely about picking the Best Player Available.

There's really no winning when drafting with your first pick unless you can land a phenom. If we spent first round picks on linemen, then we would start complaining about not drafting a QB or WR.

Not if we were winning.

Obviously, but how many games are you going to win if you don't score touchdowns/cause turnovers?

This seems confused to me. You seem to be addressing this ...

2) The reason why there aren't many offensive linemen drafted in the first round is the simple fact that they don't score touchdown/cause turnovers.

... while my comment is about whining about picking certain positions.

We focused on skill positions. We suck. We'd be better with Rodgers or Brady. They are phenomenal. The Packers would be worse with Griff.

Rodgers, as I'm sure you'd agree, makes up for his o-line. Jordy Nelson and friends were pedestrian without him last year.

[welch]

Yes, pay for the best scouts and coaches.

In the '50s, George Preston Marshall drafted "skilled" position players. Note the record. In the '80s, the Redskins

- paid big money for scouting
- paid big money for assistant coaches
- did both because there was no free agency, so the team used the money -- among the most lucrative in any sport -- in scouting and coaching.
- made the big jump from a good team that often made the playoffs (Allen / Pardee teams) to a champion after they drafted Mark May (round 1) and Russ Grimm (traded down to get Grimm at round 3). Scouts brought in a C who started for the next 10 or 15 years, and a big tackle that Joe Gibbs, according to legend, thought was a walk-on DT.
- Darrel Green was a late first-rounder, but nobody even noticed Manley, Mann, Grant, the linebackers. When George Allen traded a future first for Dave Butz, the Washington Post laughed.

[EA7649]

There are some things I liked from this post and some, not so much.

*What I liked was spend your money on a better scouting team, I wish it was as simple as that. But if its possible to always work than definitely do it.

*The stadium is bad esp the turf. He wants a new stadium in 2024 I believe, when the Fed Ex deal is finished. Can he upgrade the turf sure he can I'm not sure he will though. Prices are a little too high, but they are selling and the Redskins are one of the top teams with the most fans. They are selling, so he has no reason to lower the price.

X Give RG3 an option and another chance because he has the skills to succeed. The final 7 games and next season is to show he improved. Plus it won't be drastically high and lets say he turns back into a successful qb again. He shouldn't be asking for a 100 mil contract because of his injury history. Maybe could sign him to a long term deal for a reasonable price. Its not like the skins are a Superbowl contender next season.

X If the Redskins drafted a qb in the 2015 draft he would struggle, for the reasons you didn't realize that you addressed. Spending a more concentrated focus on the oline is more important. I wouldn't be against drafting an under the radar qb in the late rounds for a back up.

Those are the main points you made that caught my eye.

[welch]

There are some things I liked from this post and some, not so much.

*What I liked was spend your money on a better scouting team, I wish it was as simple as that. But if its possible to always work than definitely do it.

*The stadium is bad esp the turf. He wants a new stadium in 2024 I believe, when the Fed Ex deal is finished. Can he upgrade the turf sure he can I'm not sure he will though. Prices are a little too high, but they are selling and the Redskins are one of the top teams with the most fans. They are selling, so he has no reason to lower the price.

X Give RG3 an option and another chance because he has the skills to succeed. The final 7 games and next season is to show he improved. Plus it won't be drastically high and lets say he turns back into a successful qb again. He shouldn't be asking for a 100 mil contract because of his injury history. Maybe could sign him to a long term deal for a reasonable price. Its not like the skins are a Superbowl contender next season.

X If the Redskins drafted a qb in the 2015 draft he would struggle, for the reasons you didn't realize that you addressed. Spending a more concentrated focus on the oline is more important. I wouldn't be against drafting an under the radar qb in the late rounds for a back up.

Those are the main points you made that caught my eye.

Actually, the QB was not "under my radar". I saw the Redskins lose when they had Sonny Jurgensen, among the best QBs ever, throwing to Charley Taylor (HoF), Bobbie Mitchell (HoF), and Jerry Smith (should be HoF). Otto Graham did not care about the OL or defense. Believed that people paid money to see flashy passing. I saw them win with Billy Kilmer, one season when Sonny had a broken arm and another when he had snapped his achilles tendon.

The team already has Griffin. He's OK. Get a modern Jeff Bostic, Joe Jacoby, Mark May, Russ Grimm, add a Mark Sclereth. Then see what happens.

Grant, Manley, and Mann: none were first rounders. Allen traded a first for Dave Butz (Cosell: "Butz doesn't move anyplace he doesn't want to go. Nobody shoves him out of the way"). Except for one LB, the rest were 10th rounders or undrafted free-agents. Green was a first, but drafted after SB 17: last player in the first round. Fans had never heard of him; we wanted Boomer Esiason, very good QB, University of Maryland. (Off-hand, I think the only Redskin first-rounders were a runner in the late '60s, then Art Monk in 1980, and Bobby Wilson about 1990. The only "franchise QB" was Heath Shuler.)

The OL and the DL make everyone else better.

Field surface? Move back to RFK. Add an extra 5,000 or 10,000 seats. Spiff up the food concessions, but get a team so good that nobody wants to wander off. How many people at Jack Kent Cooke Stadium watch the game on the jumbo-tron?