The Trouble with RG3

[Chris Luva Luva]

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/06/robert-griffin-washington-redskins-pocket-passer/

Every great NFL quarterback (with the possible exception of Ben Roethlisberger) has a refined pocket presence. Griffin, at this point, does not.

This should be alarming to Washington, because it factors into the amount (and severity) of hits RG3 takes.

A lot of the points brought up in this article have been mentioned by quite a few folks on the board. It's always interesting seeing such analysis because it explains a lot of what we see and gives meaning to it. We're so quick to blame the offensive line when RGIII is being pummeled and are stuck when Shanahan praises the line... Well, this is a good indication why.

[frankcal20]

RG3 this season has missed open receivers and for some either didn't see them or chose to go elsewhere. RG3 last week showed a bit more grit in my opinion. Something we saw last year. Almost playing angry. Didn't look to get hit but looked to avoid hits. What was also nice to see is he got rid of the ball when the play wasn't there and threw the ball away. Something he didn't do vs Denver. It was like he just wouldn't give up on a play and would force it.

It's so easy to forget though that RG3 is only in his 2nd season and while guys like Luck look amazing, Luck isn't coming off an injury and more importantly isn't asked to do as much as RG given they have a more talented roster IMO. Their defense helps them out a lot.

RG3 does need to avoid hits since he's not built like a RB but I do think it's important for him to try to make plays when they are there to be made and move on to the next play if there's nothing there. Sometimes the Defense just has the right call and the offensive play isn't going to work. Don't forget, the defense is making a paycheck too.

[SkinsJock]

.. Halfway through his second season, it’s impossible to call Robert Griffin III anything but an unrefined quarterback. Slowed by his surgically repaired right knee and often playing from behind, he’s learning how to be a drop-back passer the hard way

this is his opinion - RG3 is a 2nd year QB and the 'plan' this season is to make some changes to the way he plays in order to minimize the hits from the way he played last season - this is an ongoing process and RG3 is playing better despite not having a very good pass blocking O line

I think the implication that RG3 is "slowed" by the injury is incorrect - he's indicated that he is not hampered by the brace or by effects from the injury … I think he knows more about his legs and his physical capabilities than this reporter does

RG3 is trying his best to make Kyle's offense work the way that Kyle wants it run - last season they wanted to use plays that he was familiar with and this season they are putting in a slightly different offense

RG3 is a work in progress but he's incredibly bright and very motivated - he'll figure this out

RG3 is a lot better QB at this time than this reporter is implying

[riggofan]

It's so easy to forget though that RG3 is only in his 2nd season and while guys like Luck look amazing, Luck isn't coming off an injury and more importantly isn't asked to do as much as RG given they have a more talented roster IMO. Their defense helps them out a lot.

The Colts aren't in year two of a huge salary cap penalty.

I'm not discounting the criticism of RGIII as a pocket passer, coming from people much more knowledgeable than I will ever be. I just think its probably early to make too many judgements about how good he can be. The guy seems very intelligent on top of his incredible athleticism, so I tend to believe he will improve. And like frankcal pointed out, adding more talent around him over the next year or two should be a big help.

[Kilmer72]

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/11/06/robert-griffin-washington-redskins-pocket-passer/

Every great NFL quarterback (with the possible exception of Ben Roethlisberger) has a refined pocket presence. Griffin, at this point, does not.

This should be alarming to Washington, because it factors into the amount (and severity) of hits RG3 takes.

A lot of the points brought up in this article have been mentioned by quite a few folks on the board. It's always interesting seeing such analysis because it explains a lot of what we see and gives meaning to it. We're so quick to blame the offensive line when RGIII is being pummeled and are stuck when Shanahan praises the line... Well, this is a good indication why.

I agree with what you quoted out of that article. The problem is how long would they "Every great NFL quarterback" last behind our offensive pass protection? How great would they look? The amount of hits Robert takes behind the line would lesson if they could block the rush better.

[SkinsJock]

It's so easy to forget though that RG3 is only in his 2nd season and while guys like Luck look amazing, Luck isn't coming off an injury and more importantly isn't asked to do as much as RG given they have a more talented roster IMO. Their defense helps them out a lot.

The Colts aren't in year two of a huge salary cap penalty.

I'm not discounting the criticism of RGIII as a pocket passer, coming from people much more knowledgeable than I will ever be. I just think its probably early to make too many judgements about how good he can be. The guy seems very intelligent on top of his incredible athleticism, so I tend to believe he will improve. And like frankcal pointed out, adding more talent around him over the next year or two should be a big help.

+1 - RG3 definitely has some work to do - to imply that he's not making progress or that he does not look all that promising is a little premature IMO

there are a number of reasons to be excited about RG3 and there are a number of things that he needs to work on

let's not be too hasty to downgrade this kid

[Countertrey]

Here's the deal... Luck was in a pro-style system. He is a very intelligent player who arrived with a pretty full set of pocket skills.
Bob comes from a spread offense, where he was asked to use his athleticism to extend pass plays, and to contribute to the running game. He was never asked to work from a pocket. Now, Bob is also a pretty darned intelligent young man. He has been asked to learn pocket passing skills ON THE FLY... DURING THE SEASON. We are seeing growing pains, not because of his lack of skills... but because HE IS COMMITTED to develop new skills. He persists in the pocket, even when his comfort level is low, because of his discipline, and his understanding that this is important to his development, and it is what his coaches are asking him to do. OF COURSE, Luck is ahead in this area. He had a HUGE head start in the pocket game. The comparison is dumb. Bob, in fact DOES have a fairly strong pocket awareness... to see a QB with a true lack of pocket awareness, see Jason Campbell in B&G. Bob has, on occasion, been unaware of the doom approaching from behind... but, usually, he get's rid of the ball... and, lessons have been learned from early season disasters. Campbell, I recall, almost NEVER sensed the dark presence approaching...

[Kilmer72]

Here's the deal... Luck was in a pro-style system. He is a very intelligent player who arrived with a pretty full set of pocket skills.
Bob comes from a spread offense, where he was asked to use his athleticism to extend pass plays, and to contribute to the running game. He was never asked to work from a pocket. Now, Bob is also a pretty darned intelligent young man. He has been asked to learn pocket passing skills ON THE FLY... DURING THE SEASON. We are seeing growing pains, not because of his lack of skills... but because HE IS COMMITTED to develop new skills. He persists in the pocket, even when his comfort level is low, because of his discipline, and his understanding that this is important to his development, and it is what his coaches are asking him to do. OF COURSE, Luck is ahead in this area. He had a HUGE head start in the pocket game. The comparison is dumb. Bob, in fact DOES have a fairly strong pocket awareness... to see a QB with a true lack of pocket awareness, see Jason Campbell in B&G. Bob has, on occasion, been unaware of the doom approaching from behind... but, usually, he get's rid of the ball... and, lessons have been learned from early season disasters. Campbell, I recall, almost NEVER sensed the dark presence approaching...

EXACTLY!!!

These sports writers and ex QBs fail to remember that he was never expected to look more polished than Luck. Like you also said, Robert has on occasion been unaware. I also think a lot of blame should go to pass protection as well.

[SkinsJock]

the pass protection was terrible in the game tonight … If Mike is intimating that this O line is OK, he's wrong

Robert Griffin III was amazing considering the non existent protection and Kyle's stupid play calling

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

and

as we have seen … there's some work to do

[StorminMormon86]

the pass protection was terrible in the game tonight … If Mike is intimating that this O line is OK, he's wrong

Robert Griffin III was amazing considering the non existent protection and Kyle's stupid play calling

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

and

as we have seen … there's some work to do

Pass protection was good in the first half. And Kyle called a decent game, IMO. We need to give credit to the Vikings D.

[Chris Luva Luva]

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

[StorminMormon86]

The play calling in last night's game was 37 pass to 36 rush calls. That's balanced. Kyle did not call a bad game. And we need to stop blaming our offensive line every freakin' time we lose a game. The Vikings D deserves some credit. Our line played good in the first half, sucked against the blitz, but I still think they were giving Griffin a decent amount of time. He was making awesome throws under pressure in the first half while he was getting hit, and then missing guys in the 2nd. It's like a switch was turned off that shut our offense down in the 2nd half.

[SkinsJock]

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

I agree that Robert's got a lot of work to do and that there have been a number of 'open' players that he's missed …

I think he'll continue to improve in this offense - IMO - he's better each game

I don't think that Kyle's game planning and play calling are in sync with Robert's adapting from what he did last season

I don't think that we're seeing much from Kyle - I think he's a good play caller but I don't think he's good enough - that's probably just me

[Countertrey]

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

Umm... Chris... Bob was pretty damned accurate last night... you sure you weren't watching a replay of the Philly game? I saw THREE passes last night that really missed the target... and one of them may have been deliberate due to good coverage and a lousy angle. Bob did fine last night... and he did fine last week.

I also think that Kyle called a very nice game last night. He (and Bob) were let down by that sieve known as the Redskins O-line.

Sorry... the only one that has any business in pass pro is Trent.

[StorminMormon86]

Last year - "Griffin is awesome! He single handedly saved our team and our offense!"
This year - "Kyle's play calling sucks! Fire him!"

Funny how no one mentioned Kyle's play calling last year being good when we went on our 7 game win streak. But when we lose? Man oh man.

[riggofan]

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

Umm... Chris... Bob was pretty damned accurate last night... you sure you weren't watching a replay of the Philly game? I saw THREE passes last night that really missed the target... and one of them may have been deliberate due to good coverage and a lousy angle. Bob did fine last night... and he did fine last week.

Yeah I was kind of scratching my head about Chris' comment, had to go back and look at the box score. 24 of 37, 281 yards, 3 TDs and no interceptions?

[Chris Luva Luva]

we are very fortunate to have a QB like this that we can build our offense around

I'm sorry but I can't call his play-calling stupid when the receivers are open and Robert sail the pass over their head. Roberts accuracy was off and has been off for quite a while. Not say Kyle is infallible, he's far from it. But every article, this one included is saying that the receivers are WIDE OPEN, but Robert can't find them. That's NOT Kyles fault. The plays are working as designed, Robert has to grow into being a proper drop-back QB.

Umm... Chris... Bob was pretty damned accurate last night... you sure you weren't watching a replay of the Philly game? I saw THREE passes last night that really missed the target... and one of them may have been deliberate due to good coverage and a lousy angle. Bob did fine last night... and he did fine last week.

I also think that Kyle called a very nice game last night. He (and Bob) were let down by that sieve known as the Redskins O-line.

Sorry... the only one that has any business in pass pro is Trent.

Allow me to explain my train of thought.

I'm not bothered or upset with his accuracy last night. He was pretty decent, he's improving. However, there were a few playes where he sailed a pass and that happens, no big deal. When I made that post, I was thinking of a 1st down pass in the second half. It was playaction, Rob had an open Garcon and he sailed it. Incomplete pass, they eventually go three & out. Folks look at that and say, "well, why didn't we run the ball?! Kyle sucks!". And That's where I take issue. We went thru years of predictable play calling, this kid switches it up. He'll use the run to set up the play-action pass. He'll then in turn, use the play-action to set up the run and the only way that'll come into fruition is if those passes are completed.

So, I wasn't really knocking Robert but just pointing out that the plays are open. The players are there. RGIII isn't finding them, or it's a dropped pass. It's whatever. I think, and this is just my humble opinion on the list of things wrong, play calling is far down the list.

[StorminMormon86]

I agree. The players need to execute the plays called. Kyle called a good, balanced game last night. Griffin missed Garcon down at the goal line. Despite what Mayock was saying, I think Garcon would have scored if the throw was more accurate. Not saying that Griffin is to blame, but WTF happened to our offense in the 2nd half!? 20 unanswered points against a team that only had 44 players active last night. Pathetic.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I agree. The players need to execute the plays called. Kyle called a good, balanced game last night. Griffin missed Garcon down at the goal line. Despite what Mayock was saying, I think Garcon would have scored if the throw was more accurate. Not saying that Griffin is to blame, but WTF happened to our offense in the 2nd half!? 20 unanswered points against a team that only had 44 players active last night. Pathetic.

Well....

- Griffin had Moss in the corner but led him out of bounds...
- Reed dropped a TD. PI or not, it touched his hands.


That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

[riggofan]

Last year - "Griffin is awesome! He single handedly saved our team and our offense!"
This year - "Kyle's play calling sucks! Fire him!"

Funny how no one mentioned Kyle's play calling last year being good when we went on our 7 game win streak. But when we lose? Man oh man.

Nothing new man. Kyle is THE #1 scapegoat for every loss, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I will admit though that my initial reaction after the game last night was that his play calling in the second half wasn't good. I've been reading a lot this morning about how our offensive line was so bad, but they seemed to be doing a great job opening up holes for Morris. I don't know why we insist on having RGIII drop back and try to pass from the pocket when that line clearly can't protect him that way. Am I wrong about that?

I don't know. Maybe they were so concerned about keeping our defense off the field, they got impatient with the play calling in the second half.

[Deadskins]

That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

I agree for the most part, but when the refs are killing our drives with phantom calls, and extending theirs by not calling blatant fouls, it's an uphill battle.

[Chris Luva Luva]

That's why I hate this ref blaming BS. F**k the refs. DO YOUR JOB. The ref can't UN-CATCH the ball for you. Catch it! Make the accurate pass! Take the refs out of the game. If we're relying on the ref, we've already lost.

I agree for the most part, but when the refs are killing our drives with phantom calls, and extending theirs by not calling blatant fouls, it's an uphill battle.

i feel you but we can't control that. i can only do my job and if i'm not doing that, i'm the issue first and foremost. if our players did their jobs, we'd be so far ahead that the refs would be a non-factor.

[StorminMormon86]

Nothing new man. Kyle is THE #1 scapegoat for every loss, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I will admit though that my initial reaction after the game last night was that his play calling in the second half wasn't good. I've been reading a lot this morning about how our offensive line was so bad, but they seemed to be doing a great job opening up holes for Morris. I don't know why we insist on having RGIII drop back and try to pass from the pocket when that line clearly can't protect him that way. Am I wrong about that?

I don't know. Maybe they were so concerned about keeping our defense off the field, they got impatient with the play calling in the second half.

Griffin is going to get murdered if they continue to call plays that keep having him drop back in the pocket and pass. We need more bootlegs and roll outs, throws on the run, etc.

[44diesel]

I understand we're watching the growing pains as RGIII becomes a true pocket passer and I look forward to seeing all the success that lays ahead for Robert. I think he has the smarts and the arm to do so. That being said, what I'd love to see him do more is throw the ball away instead of taking these sacks for 8-10+ yards. We all know about the issues with the Oline and that can be helped to some degree with more roll outs and bootlegs. I also admire RGIII's desire to extend the play and let his receivers get open, but at the end of the day... get rid of the ball. This, IMO, is where passers like RGIII and Peyton Manning differ. Peyton is far from mobile. He doesn't extend plays with his legs but if there's nothing open down the field and that clock goes off in his head, he'll more often chuck the ball out of bounds and live to face another down than take a sack and lose downs AND yards (not to mention the number of fumbles that have occurred this year). Thoughts?

[SkinsJock]

I don't agree that Robert is being coached or encouraged to become a pocket passing QB

I think he's being coached up by Mike & Kyle to become a more rounded QB than what we saw last season

I'm as surprised as anyone that his passing touch has not been as sharp as we saw last season
I also hope he learns to scan the field more - he seems to focus on his primary target a lot

I am looking forward to watching Robert Griffin III establish himself as the best Redskins QB …. ever