Kyle needs to go.

[jambo100]

Really poor offensive play calling by Kyle. He has to go. First half of DB the skins looked like the skins. Running the ball smash mouth style. THen in second half, what does he do? Going for home runs. RGIII looked terrible. We got great RBs that are not given the chance to carry the team to wins. I think Helu/Morris are a great combo under utilized. I guess if daddy is HC, you can be a dumb OC and still keep your job. Kyle sucks.

[fredp45]

Don't worry, Kyle will have some lame-ass excuse about why he had to throw bombs and run those 5-7 drop, slow developing plays -- even though his OLine couldn't hold back a good college dline...

Mike will defend it with -- "it's easy to second guess the play calling, blah, blah, blah.." And yes Mike, it is easy to second guess -- and guess what? It sucked!!!! If he truly believes his son did a good job adjusting in the second half, he's blinded by his relationship with Kyle and that isn't healthy for this team.

Seriously, Kyle almost killed our qb.

After the Broncos scored to make it 21-14 that was the time to eat clock, keep Peyton off the field...run the ball, do naked bootlegs, screen passes, hitches, etc...why long passes, or slow developing plays? Even though we had the lead, they had the momentum and we needed another long drive that gave our defense rest, kept Peyton on the bench, shut the fans up, and kept our qb safe.

I'm not sure I agree Kyle needs to be fired, but Mike sure better talk to him about momentum of the game, resting the D, getting some rythm on offense, short plays...an occassional bomb is absolutly good. Protect the franchise player... Did Peyton throw many deep balls? Nope..

God that was painful to watch. That hit on RGIII by that 335lb fat pig made it very clear, our oline is good at run blocking but NOT pass blocking...SO, quick plays, get rid of the ball quickly, run the ball!

[HTTRRG3ALMO]

So...if Kyle goes who's this Knight in Shinning Armor that's taking his place and solving all of our problems?

[SkinsJock]

So...if Kyle goes who's this Knight in Shinning Armor that's taking his place and solving all of our problems?

there must be a number of OCs that can better utilize the players we have

Players like Griffin, Morris, Garcon and Reed deserve better

[DarthMonk]

I think Kyle is a very creative offensive mind. He bases his game plans on the weaknesses of a defense. His schemes create big holes and get guys wide open. I think he's mostly a good play caller. If we executed better we would be saying he is an awesome play caller.

I don't know how great a motivator he is.

I think overall, Kyle is a top notch O.C.

[SkinsJock]

I think Kyle is a very creative offensive mind. He bases his game plans on the weaknesses of a defense. His schemes create big holes and get guys wide open. I think he's mostly a good play caller. If we executed better we would be saying he is an awesome play caller.

I don't know how great a motivator he is. I think overall, Kyle is a top notch O.C.

maybe he needs to base his game planning on the strengths of his players

look - Kyle is a really good OC - he's just not doing very well so far this season …

Kyle did well for the Texans - now he's got a better QB, a better RB, a better TE and some really good guys that can catch the short, intermediate and long passes

why is this offense not producing more …. maybe because the OC is game planning for the defense he's going to face rather than basing it on the offensive weapons that he has

[DarthMonk]

I think Kyle is a very creative offensive mind. He bases his game plans on the weaknesses of a defense[/color][/b]. His schemes create big holes and get guys wide open. I think he's mostly a good play caller. If we executed better we would be saying he is an awesome play caller.

I don't know how great a motivator he is. I think overall, Kyle is a top notch O.C.

maybe he needs to base his game planning on the strengths of his players

look - Kyle is a really good OC - he's just not doing very well so far this season …

Kyle did well for the Texans - now he's got a better QB, a better RB, a better TE and some really good guys that can catch the short, intermediate and long passes

why is this offense not producing more …. maybe because the OC is game planning for the defense he's going to face rather than basing it on the offensive weapons that he has

Actually, that is the point. He does not simply ask "What do we do well?" He asks "Where can we hurt them with what we do well?" Then we create large holes in the run game and get guys wide open against mal-positioned defenders.

We are not doing well because we are not executing. We are ignoring wide open guys or missing them when we target them. We are dropping balls when we hit them. I disagree with you on this. No biggie.

#shrug

PS - Play design is not game planning. When an OC DESIGNS plays it makes sense to look at one's own talent. When PUTTING TOGETHER A GAME PLAN, it makes sense to look at opponent weakness in order to choose which plays (that were apparently designed with our talent in mind) to run against that opponent.

Anyone who has watched us since Griff got here should easily see that play design has been adjusted to our strengths. We run stretch with nimble O-Lineman and patient, strong, one-cut runners. We run pistol/read option with RGIII. We send fast guys deep and we run slants and hooks with quick guys, etc. We choose from our playbook when we gameplan. Kyle says he does that based on opponent weakness - which makes sense.

I think Lombardi and Gibbs did it too.

[SkinsJock]

If the game planning and play calling by Kyle are not as effective as they should be, then Kyle needs to make some adjustments

If (as you suggest) he's using schemes that used to work in the past - he needs to come up with plays that work in today's NFL


the offensive issues are not all on poor execution by the players - that is only part of the problem

Kyle has better weapons this season - things are getting better but he's certainly not had a good first half

[SkinsJock]

I think you're right about 1 thing - Kyle thinks that what he's doing is good …

it's OBVIOUSLY NOT

maybe these guys that are 'executing' the plays can overcome this weakness

[SkinsJock]

maybe next week Kyle can get some inspiration from the Gibbs and Lombardi playbook

I hope this kid is not here next season …

[Deadskins]

I hope this kid is not here next season …

Dad would have to be gone for that to happen.

[SkinsJock]

I hope this kid is not here next season …

Dad would have to be gone for that to happen.

well … I hope that does not happen … I guess the good news is that they'll both be here if they get it in gear before the end of the season

there are too many things going wrong here with almost the same players & almost the same staff (actually probably a better group) as the team that won the NFC East

these guys are not getting the most out of their staff and the players as they should be

[courier2003]

From the very beginning, I never agreed with this "family affair" coaching staff. Have you ever heard of the term "nepotism?" It has created too many complications. If the Redskins were playing well and winning games, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but they aren't and it is. Mike would never fire his own son. Who are we kidding? Kyle should have stayed in Houston and kept his Offensive Coordinator job with the Texans. This is why many companies don't allow relatives to work together---favoritism. Kyle can continue to call bad plays and make questionable decisions, but his job is still secure b/c Daddy is the Head Coach. Kyle can do no wrong and Mike will continue to defend him regardless. I have a big problem with that.

[DarthMonk]

From the very beginning, I never agreed with this "family affair" coaching staff. Have you ever heard of the term "nepotism?" It has created too many complications. If the Redskins were playing well and winning games, then it wouldn't be as much of an issue, but they aren't and it is. Mike would never fire his own son. Who are we kidding? Kyle should have stayed in Houston and kept his Offensive Coordinator job with the Texans. This is why many companies don't allow relatives to work together---favoritism. Kyle can continue to call bad plays and make questionable decisions, but his job is still secure b/c Daddy is the Head Coach. Kyle can do no wrong and Mike will continue to defend him regardless. I have a big problem with that.

This is the one and only aspect of Kyle that truly bothers me.

[markshark84]

Are people serious?

Do you guys really think KS is the problem?

If a coordinator needs to go it's Haslett.

For the first 4 games of the year KS was calling plays with a gimpy, unconfident QB who was epically afraid of contact.

This team has been averaging 28 ppg over the past 4 weeks --- and this is still with a limited playbook due to the RGIII injury.

Meanwhile our D is averaging 35 points against per game since the break. That is our problem.

IMHO, the DEF vs. OFF line is 23. If our D holds the opponent to 23, they have done their job. If the offense scores more than 23, they have done theirs. So, IMHO our offense is now holding their end of bargin. Our D is still almost 2 touchdowns short of theirs.

KS has been successful in Houston and last year in DC. He's nowhere near the problem. It tough to implement any sort of offense if your QB is putting up a <10 QBR every game. His players were failing him in the beginning of the year. KS was unable to use the full playbook. And even with a limited playbook we are putting up enough points to win.

If KS and Haslett were fired this year, KS would get a job in about 2 days. Haslett would likely have to retire or become a positions coach. I think that is most telling.

[Deadskins]

While I agree about Haslett needing to go long before Kyle, I don't agree with a couple of your points. I don't think RGIII was gimpy or epically afraid of contact at the start of the year. He was unconfident, and I think the coaches might have been epically afraid of contact for him, though. Also, I think you are giving the offense credit for a couple of defensive scores, and counting scores against the defense that were the direct result of offensive screw-ups.

[markshark84]

While I agree about Haslett needing to go long before Kyle, I don't agree with a couple of your points. I don't think RGIII was gimpy or epically afraid of contact at the start of the year. He was unconfident, and I think the coaches might have been epically afraid of contact for him, though. Also, I think you are giving the offense credit for a couple of defensive scores, and counting scores against the defense that were the direct result of offensive screw-ups.

My stats deducted points scored by the defense. If you include those, our O would have been averaging over 30 a game. As far as vice versa, even if our offense were giving up a TD a game (which it isn't), an average of 28 points against is still unacceptable. I don't think the D has much of an excuse for anything.

And we'll have to agree to disagree on RGIII. To me, he looked totally immoble and scared.

[DarthMonk]

Are people serious?

Do you guys really think KS is the problem?

If a coordinator needs to go it's Haslett.

For the first 4 games of the year KS was calling plays with a gimpy, unconfident QB who was epically afraid of contact.

This team has been averaging 28 ppg over the past 4 weeks --- and this is still with a limited playbook due to the RGIII injury.

Meanwhile our D is averaging 35 points against per game since the break. That is our problem.

IMHO, the DEF vs. OFF line is 23. If our D holds the opponent to 23, they have done their job. If the offense scores more than 23, they have done theirs. So, IMHO our offense is now holding their end of bargin. Our D is still almost 2 touchdowns short of theirs.

KS has been successful in Houston and last year in DC. He's nowhere near the problem. It tough to implement any sort of offense if your QB is putting up a <10 QBR every game. His players were failing him in the beginning of the year. KS was unable to use the full playbook. And even with a limited playbook we are putting up enough points to win.

If KS and Haslett were fired this year, KS would get a job in about 2 days. Haslett would likely have to retire or become a positions coach. I think that is most telling.

[DarthMonk]

WP 11/17

Instituting a dramatic change

During the 2012 offseason, Mike and Kyle Shanahan studied footage of the read option, which other NFL teams had run effectively. Mike Shanahan reflected on his days inside the wishbone machine at Oklahoma.

“Everything’s a learning experience,” he said.

Washington had drafted Griffin, an electric runner and a promising college passer, with the No. 2 overall pick. Mike Shanahan had won two Super Bowls in Denver using a zone-blocking scheme that relied on power running and an accurate quarterback. It had worked, but now it was part of the past.

“I don’t think you really have much of a choice,” the Washington coach said. “Whatever players that you have, you have to adapt a system to those players.”

Whether it was adjustment or a survival instinct — the Redskins had gone 11-21 in Shanahan’s first two seasons — Washington instituted a dramatic change, leaving only blocking concepts and terminology and emphasizing a zone-read scheme that frequently ran the option.

Kyle Shanahan said he has tailored offenses to his players in each of his six seasons as a coordinator, dating to his time with the Houston Texans. None were as significant as adapting to Griffin’s skills, and none had higher stakes.

Whether it was the right move or not, Kyle Shanahan said stubbornly sticking to a system — and forcing players to fit into it — is “pretty stupid.”

“Coaches aren’t just going to keep running plays that their players aren’t good at unless they want to get fired and suck at everything they do,” he said. “Eventually you’ve got to adjust.”

Washington has made less noticeable tweaks this season, some to accommodate Griffin’s healing right knee and opposing defenses’ own changes and others to jump-start a sluggish and mistake-prone offense. Its coaches haven’t yet found the right adjustment to replicate last year’s success.

As a result, Kyle Shanahan said, the experimentation at Redskins Park is ongoing.

“You’d better adjust pretty quick,” he said, “and quit beating your head against the wall trying to run something that’s not working.”

[SkinsJock]

I could not care how great an OC or DC might be somewhere else or if he ever got a job in the NFL again

THAT MEANS SQUAT

all that matters is if they are good while they are working for the Redskins …

Haslett and Kyle are good coordinators - I could care less what happens to them IF they are not here next season

all that matters is that we need to have the OC and DC that ARE here get more out of the offense and defense than we are seeing this season

The defense seems to me to be more of an issue than the offense but Mike would know more about that than I do

the first guy to be out of here is the ST coordinator - Burns

[markshark84]

I could not care how great an OC or DC might be somewhere else or if he ever got a job in the NFL again

THAT MEANS SQUAT

all that matters is if they are good while they are working for the Redskins …

Haslett and Kyle are good coordinators - I could care less what happens to them IF they are not here next season

all that matters is that we need to have the OC and DC that ARE here get more out of the offense and defense than we are seeing this season

The defense seems to me to be more of an issue than the offense but Mike would know more about that than I do

the first guy to be out of here is the ST coordinator - Burns

I never said whether KS or Haslett will be good elsewhere; I said that KS would be hired by another HC in 2 days if fired. There is a big difference. I made the statement to show that HCs see the value KS has provided while Haslett has not.

Also, I disagree that Haslett is a "good coordinator". He is not. And DEF is absolutely our biggest concern. They have been giving up about 28 points a game since week 1 of last season.

[SkinsJock]

^^ that's JUST your opinion …

the ONLY opinion that matters is Mike's - Haslett is doing what Mike wants, the way Mike wants - END of story

Mike has ONLY kept Haslett here because he's a DC that does what Mike wants -
put another way, Mike would not bring in the best available DC, he brought in a DC that would run the defense the way Mike wants it run

so - Haslett is a good DC maybe not in your or my estimation but that does not count for diddly

[markshark84]

^^ that's JUST your opinion …

the ONLY opinion that matters is Mike's - Haslett is doing what Mike wants, the way Mike wants - END of story

Mike has ONLY kept Haslett here because he's a DC that does what Mike wants -
put another way, Mike would not bring in the best available DC, he brought in a DC that would run the defense the way Mike wants it run

so - Haslett is a good DC maybe not in your or my estimation but that does not count for diddly

Yes -- how soon KS or Haslett would acquire another job is absolutely my opinion; but I do believe it is a VERY reasonable one.

As far as Haslett doing what MS wants --- if you mean MS wants Haslett to run the 3-4; then yes, although Haslett has always run a 3-4. However, MS is not calling the defensive plays, making defensive adjustments, etc. That is all Haslett and he is doing a horrible job.

And Haslett is not a good DC based on his product. I don't think that is even disputable. I don't think most people within the NFL would honestly state Haslett is "good" based on his product in washington.

[SkinsJock]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder …

Mike is in charge here - he brought in Kyle & Jim because he felt that they would do a good job AND, most importantly, do it the way Mike wanted it done …
Mike has a lot of influence over both the running game and the defense - Haslett is not doing what he wants, he's doing what Mike wants

this franchise is basically being managed and coached by Mike Shanahan with a lot of help from Bruce, Kyle, Jim and Ken Burns

we have the #1 rushing game in the NFL and all the stats indicate a good offense - yet the O line has only looked good on occasion

our defense has moments of greatness but so many more moments of bad tackling and not being effective at all against some of the worst QBs in the NFL

[fredp45]

Somewhere along this thread someone said, we wouldn't be saying anything bad about Kyle if we were executing the plays...NO *sh$t*.

Isn't that true for every bad OC that gets fired??