ESPN Article Bashing Griffin

[StorminMormon86]

Don't know if anyone has read this yet, but I found it by googling "Robert Griffin" under the news tab.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/97488 ... n-magazine

I must admit that to a degree, I agree with some of what Bryant has said in this article. I find it amazing that everybody and their mother was in love with Griffin last year (people were in mourning after he got injured in the Seahawks game for chrissakes), and how quick the media has turned on him. Unbelievable. I understand some of the kneejerkers in the fanbase who would turn on him but didn't expect the media to turn this quickly.

[SkinsJock]

RG3 just needs to play to his capabilities - we have not seen that yet ..

I have no doubt that he's going to pick up his game and become the greatest QB to ever put on a B&G uniform - ever

[Chris Luva Luva]

This is a humbling lesson for Robert. I think he needed it and will be better for it.

[Deadskins]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

[skinsfan#33]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

I agree 100%. When I got to that part I just stopped trying to pretend that the author was doing anything other than trying to cash in on RG3's struggles this season.

Yes, I'm sure there are some in DC and across the country that will root for him simply because he is back. How else do you explain why you still see tons of #17 Williams jerseys but no #11 Rypien jerseys? Doug started for less than a season for the team while Mark started for five of six seasons and three of those teams went to the playoffs.

[DaSkinz Baby]

Although race plays a lot, and it shouldn't it does. RGIII was the hottest ticket last year, but let's also face facts, RGIII started to drink his own kool aid. He started to become a media diva, he hasn't been sharp, he hasn't shown at all what he did last year. He has spoken about being 100% when clearly he isn't. He is being caught by defensive lineman that last year he would have ran away from. Why is he playing and why is he having to all of a sudden become a Peyton Manning type QB? He isn't able and this offensive line isn't built to be that type of team. RGIII is dangerous having the ability to run, giving the defense the additional task of worrying about him running, they don't respect him running, it is shown he isn't running and even when he does he is SLOW, fact is yes it's great he came back to play, but on the other side of that coin Kirk Cousin gives us the best chance to win when we have to be a drop back and pass team. Let's also not kid ourselves. Other than Pierre we have no receiver that strikes fear. Leonard has shown flashes, Josh and Santana have to me dropped more passes than they have caught and let's not even talk about Robinson, he can barely catch a cold. Fred Davis seems to have lost a step and isn't as open as usual. Teams know RGIII looks for Paulsen and he too has had the drops. We all know that if RGIII has come back and played like he did last year, this article would not have been written or would have glorified RGIII as the greatest thing to come to DC since our 3 SB's. However since RGIII hasn't shown anything to really be excited about he is now looking to be a one year wonder, injury or not. Lastly the media is there to create as much media sensationalism as possible, this is nothing more than a direct shot at doing just that. The question is does RGIII dig down and become great again, or is this a lost season because he and his knee is no where close to where it has been reported to be. Sorry I have seen Conner Barwin catch him, I have seen #79 from Detroit catch him and I saw a couple Raider's catch him, no way last year any of them catch him. At this point Kirk Cousins may be faster than RGIII and that is what is hurting the most, RGIII is no longer a duel threat QB and his skillset isn't being an Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning type drop back passer and this line isn't built to be a pass protection line either. So as damming as that article is, there is truth to it and after 4 games personally I don't see RGIII as I saw him last year and neither does the other 31 teams in the NFL.........

[riggofan]

Although race plays a lot, and it shouldn't it does. RGIII was the hottest ticket last year, but let's also face facts, RGIII started to drink his own kool aid.

barf. GIVE ME A BREAK.

The guy didn't start to drink his own kool-aid. HE TORE HIS ACL.

I love how you also wrote "let's face facts". As if anyone here could ever state FACTUALLY whether RGIII was "drinking his own kool aid". Whatever that is.

[emoses14]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

I agree 100%. When I got to that part I just stopped trying to pretend that the author was doing anything other than trying to cash in on RG3's struggles this season.

Yes, I'm sure there are some in DC and across the country that will root for him simply because he is back. How else do you explain why you still see tons of #17 Williams jerseys but no #11 Rypien jerseys? Doug started for less than a season for the team while Mark started for five of six seasons and three of those teams went to the playoffs.

Double post. Please disregard.

[emoses14]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

I agree 100%. When I got to that part I just stopped trying to pretend that the author was doing anything other than trying to cash in on RG3's struggles this season.

Yes, I'm sure there are some in DC and across the country that will root for him simply because he is back. How else do you explain why you still see tons of #17 Williams jerseys but no #11 Rypien jerseys? Doug started for less than a season for the team while Mark started for five of six seasons and three of those teams went to the playoffs.

Stop. Right. There. I'm fine if you want to pretend as though there is something wrong with a race of people being fan's of Griffin's solely because he's black. I'm not going to get into why that's just too cute for words, cause it isn't the point here.

However, since Doug was the very first black quarterback to play in, let alone dominate in, a Superbowl, you are being purposefully obtuse not to understand the significance of that event and therefor the prevalence of his jersey over Rypien's. I'm sorry that hurts your color blind feelings. I don't even disagree with the point that Rypien was a better QB for the skins for a longer period of time, but that, again, has nothing to do with it Though it ain't world's better now, that was a vastly different time with respect to the perception of a black qb's ability to play, let alone at a high level, let alone in the pinnacle game of the sport. Now, if you happen to be that special snowflake who just doesn't see color, that's awesome for you. I'd like to be the first to welcome you to the rest of America that doesn't quite operate the same way.

You explain why people wear William's Jersey more than Rypien's because his achievements in the Burgundy and Gold were more salient to more people than Rypien's not just because he was black, but because he was black at that time, on that stage, in that America, in this country, got hurt and THEN blew every possible hope and dream for quality of performance out of the water. If you can't understand that, well I don't know what to tell you.

[StorminMormon86]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

[DaSkinz Baby]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

Overrated? I don't think he was ever overrated. Especially for the time he played, the racial issue he dealt with from the belief that black man weren't smart enough to play QB as well as the racism shown to him by Jay Schroeder his own team mate. I tend to think the most overrated QB we ever had was Trent Green, do you know how many times I have heard that had JKC not died and we were able to keep him this team would have never declined the way it did. That to me is overrated........

[emoses14]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

Jay Schroeder
Gus Frerotte
Heath Shuler
Mark Brunell
Donovan McNabb
Patrick Ramsey
Shane Mathews (i know he wasn't highly rated, but the fact that he was even rated at all, and started makes him more overrated)
Rex Grossman

Your argument is invalid.

[Deadskins]

My point wasn't really so much about RGIII being black, as much as the author stating that he was positioned to be some racial bridge to bring DC together, and not having made any socially significant speeches or taken any action along those lines. What a crock! He was brought in to be the QB for the Redskins, not to solve some social issues. The Redskins are one of the things, if not the only thing, that brings DC together. It has absolutley nothing to do with his race, nor should it. And why the hell should anyone expect him to make/take "socially significant" speeches/action?

[StorminMormon86]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

Jay Schroeder
Gus Frerotte
Heath Shuler
Mark Brunell
Donovan McNabb
Patrick Ramsey
Shane Mathews (i know he wasn't highly rated, but the fact that he was even rated at all, and started makes him more overrated)
Rex Grossman

Your argument is invalid.

BS.

None of those QBs you listed are talked about today as one of the Skins greats. Williams had one excellent game that just so happened to be the Superbowl.

[markshark84]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

I agree 100%. When I got to that part I just stopped trying to pretend that the author was doing anything other than trying to cash in on RG3's struggles this season.

Yes, I'm sure there are some in DC and across the country that will root for him simply because he is back. How else do you explain why you still see tons of #17 Williams jerseys but no #11 Rypien jerseys? Doug started for less than a season for the team while Mark started for five of six seasons and three of those teams went to the playoffs.

Stop. Right. There. I'm fine if you want to pretend as though there is something wrong with a race of people being fan's of Griffin's solely because he's black. I'm not going to get into why that's just too cute for words, cause it isn't the point here.

However, since Doug was the very first black quarterback to play in, let alone dominate in, a Superbowl, you are being purposefully obtuse not to understand the significance of that event and therefor the prevalence of his jersey over Rypien's. I'm sorry that hurts your color blind feelings. I don't even disagree with the point that Rypien was a better QB for the skins for a longer period of time, but that, again, has nothing to do with it Though it ain't world's better now, that was a vastly different time with respect to the perception of a black qb's ability to play, let alone at a high level, let alone in the pinnacle game of the sport. Now, if you happen to be that special snowflake who just doesn't see color, that's awesome for you. I'd like to be the first to welcome you to the rest of America that doesn't quite operate the same way.

You explain why people wear William's Jersey more than Rypien's because his achievements in the Burgundy and Gold were more salient to more people than Rypien's not just because he was black, but because he was black at that time, on that stage, in that America, in this country, got hurt and THEN blew every possible hope and dream for quality of performance out of the water. If you can't understand that, well I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with most of this. What Williams achieved as a black QB during the '87 season is bigger than just football given the time. In typing, it is very difficult to put into words. #17 did something culturally significant, the football equivalent of Obama being elected as president. Blacks now had a SB winning QB to identify with and, IMHO, is one of the reasons we are seeing more black QBs thrive today.

The reason you see more #17s and less #11s is because of the impact he had on the game; having a SB winning black QB is something ONLY washington can own. People don't only buy jerseys of players because they are statistically good --- they buy jerseys of people they can identify with. That is why you see a lot more white fans with #91s than #59s in the stands on sundays and more black fans with #17 over #11.

The only thing I disagree with is that you believe there is still a "perception" that a black QB can't play or that they aren't given the proper chances to succeed. That is incorrect. During the days of #17, for some time he was the only starting black QB in the league, was grossly underpaid, and under-recruited in college. That is not the case today. Not even close --- and #17s contributions have something to do with this.

[Deadskins]

During the days of #17, for some time he was the only starting black QB in the league

Warren Moon? Randal Cunningham?

[emoses14]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

Jay Schroeder
Gus Frerotte
Heath Shuler
Mark Brunell
Donovan McNabb
Patrick Ramsey
Shane Mathews (i know he wasn't highly rated, but the fact that he was even rated at all, and started makes him more overrated)
Rex Grossman

Your argument is invalid.

BS.

None of those QBs you listed are talked about today as one of the Skins greats. Williams had one excellent game that just so happened to be the Superbowl.

Well, of course they aren't. They shouldn't be. Doug should. No one thinks, but apparently you think they all do, that Doug is ahead of the Sonnys and the Billys, the Joey Ts. But you said he was THE MOST overrated. Each of those players listed above was at worst, regarded as a starter in this league and went on to prove that even that was too high a rating. By itself that makes them more overrated than Doug. ESPECIALLY Jay Schroeder, who was a special piece of garbage.

Because, you see, Doug won playoff games and a superbowl, coming from behind a few times along the way, AS THE SUB, NOT THE STARTER, that year. Hell a backup QB winning the Superbowl alone would make it hard to argue that he is "our most overrated qb" The fact that he broke all the records in that game. Please.

He had one historic game and a handful of excellent ones. Now if he was being talked about for the hall of fame, that would be overrating him.

Still invalid.

[emoses14]

I can see why he would think the way he does, though I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions, but when I got to this:

When he arrived in Washington last year, he was positioned as the racial bridge of a divided city, even though he had yet to say or do anything of great social significance (and still hasn't).

he lost any credibility he had. Why does it always have to be about race? Can't he just be a QB?

I agree 100%. When I got to that part I just stopped trying to pretend that the author was doing anything other than trying to cash in on RG3's struggles this season.

Yes, I'm sure there are some in DC and across the country that will root for him simply because he is back. How else do you explain why you still see tons of #17 Williams jerseys but no #11 Rypien jerseys? Doug started for less than a season for the team while Mark started for five of six seasons and three of those teams went to the playoffs.

Stop. Right. There. I'm fine if you want to pretend as though there is something wrong with a race of people being fan's of Griffin's solely because he's black. I'm not going to get into why that's just too cute for words, cause it isn't the point here.

However, since Doug was the very first black quarterback to play in, let alone dominate in, a Superbowl, you are being purposefully obtuse not to understand the significance of that event and therefor the prevalence of his jersey over Rypien's. I'm sorry that hurts your color blind feelings. I don't even disagree with the point that Rypien was a better QB for the skins for a longer period of time, but that, again, has nothing to do with it Though it ain't world's better now, that was a vastly different time with respect to the perception of a black qb's ability to play, let alone at a high level, let alone in the pinnacle game of the sport. Now, if you happen to be that special snowflake who just doesn't see color, that's awesome for you. I'd like to be the first to welcome you to the rest of America that doesn't quite operate the same way.

You explain why people wear William's Jersey more than Rypien's because his achievements in the Burgundy and Gold were more salient to more people than Rypien's not just because he was black, but because he was black at that time, on that stage, in that America, in this country, got hurt and THEN blew every possible hope and dream for quality of performance out of the water. If you can't understand that, well I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with most of this. What Williams achieved as a black QB during the '87 season is bigger than just football given the time. In typing, it is very difficult to put into words. #17 did something culturally significant, the football equivalent of Obama being elected as president. Blacks now had a SB winning QB to identify with and, IMHO, is one of the reasons we are seeing more black QBs thrive today.

The reason you see more #17s and less #11s is because of the impact he had on the game; having a SB winning black QB is something ONLY washington can own. People don't only buy jerseys of players because they are statistically good --- they buy jerseys of people they can identify with. That is why you see a lot more white fans with #91s than #59s in the stands on sundays and more black fans with #17 over #11.

The only thing I disagree with is that you believe there is still a "perception" that a black QB can't play or that they aren't given the proper chances to succeed. That is incorrect. During the days of #17, for some time he was the only starting black QB in the league, was grossly underpaid, and under-recruited in college. That is not the case today. Not even close --- and #17s contributions have something to do with this.

Wait. What? I don't think I even implied that. I know I didn't type it. I believe neither of those things. (EDIT: OH, I see where you got that. Sorry. No, the issues now are far more nuanced (usually caged in the phrasing of "just a mobile quarterback" vs. a "pure prototype pocket passer" jargon))

Do I believe that there is only color blind evaluation of (anyone) QBs? Nope. But there clearly has been progress as you point out. I was referring to Griffin only in so far as it shouldn't be that hard to understand (nor viewed as "wrong") why even in better, yet imperfect racial times, a person would more easily identify with someone who looks like them. Hell, you made that same point.

[StorminMormon86]

Williams was 5-9 as a starter. The year the Skins won the Superbowl with him, he started 2 games in the regular season. Both were losses. He is overrated by Skins fans because of that one Superbowl victory. Jay Schroeder (who by all accounts was a douche on a personal level) led the team to a 12-4 record in 86, only to lose in the NFC title game. Then in 87 in the games he started, the Skins went 8-2. I'm not ready to say Schroeder was one of our greats, he's not even close. But look at what he did for those two years. It was a team loaded with talent.

[Deadskins]

Williams was 5-9 as a starter. The year the Skins won the Superbowl with him, he started 2 games in the regular season. Both were losses. He is overrated by Skins fans because of that one Superbowl victory. Jay Schroeder (who by all accounts was a douche on a personal level) led the team to a 12-4 record in 86, only to lose in the NFC title game. Then in 87 in the games he started, the Skins went 8-2. I'm not ready to say Schroeder was one of our greats, he's not even close. But look at what he did for those two years. It was a team loaded with talent.

And we traded him for Jim Lachey. So we even got value for him when he left.

[HEROHAMO]

I don't care about white or black. Williams was our most overrated QB.

The man helped win a SuperBowl. The ultimate prize in NFL football arguably in all of all sports. All Qbs aspire to win the Lambardi Trophy. Doug Williams managed to do it.

Doug Williams did not have the same career stat wise as some of the same QBs playing at the time Elway, Marino, Montana, Moon or Cunningham. Most would agree that those QBs had better careers overall.
You say he is overrated? By whom? Who is overrating him in what respect?

Williams gets the respect because he was the freaking SuperBowl MVP. The Skins were losing that game. Then Williams gets injured and manages to return to the game. Then not only does he come back he has the best Quarter in NFL history at the time scoring 35 points in a quarter.

He performed when the Skins needed him the most in the biggest game on the biggest stage of all sports. How you attach overrated to him? I dont know?

Most Skins fans give him respect for the fact that he was great in that SuperBowl. You never hear any Skins fans comparing him to Montana, Brady or Peyton? So I really dont get where you are coming from with this overrated stuff?

[StorminMormon86]

He's lauded by Skins fans as one of OUR great QBs. Never said he was being compared to other greats around the same time. Yes he completely showed up Elway (which is awesome) and destroyed the Broncos D. But he wasn't the reason we were even in that Superbowl. The other players get overlooked from the previous season and the 87 season, and Williams gets all of the credit. Mark Rypien also won a Superbowl and was the MVP. And he led the team to the playoffs three years in a row. He gets nowhere near the amount of credit as Williams in the eyes of Skins fans.

I'm not saying the Williams Superbowl win wasn't historically significant, because it was. But Williams as a player, is nowhere close to about a half a dozen other Skins QBs, and what they did for the team.

[HEROHAMO]

He's lauded by Skins fans as one of OUR great QBs. Never said he was being compared to other greats around the same time. Yes he completely showed up Elway (which is awesome) and destroyed the Broncos D. But he wasn't the reason we were even in that Superbowl. The other players get overlooked from the previous season and the 87 season, and Williams gets all of the credit. Mark Rypien also won a Superbowl and was the MVP. And he led the team to the playoffs three years in a row. He gets nowhere near the amount of credit as Williams in the eyes of Skins fans.

I'm not saying the Williams Superbowl win wasn't historically significant, because it was. But Williams as a player, is nowhere close to about a half a dozen other Skins QBs, and what they did for the team.

Hes lauded as one of the great QBs because he won the freaking SuperBowl and was the MVP in that game.

We have had plenty of polls on this site. Never has Williams been voted above Baugh, Sonny or Theisman.

Rypien and Williams are almost given the same respect. Even though Rypien had the better overall career it was not by much. They both had an incredible SuperBowl win.

[rskin72]

I read the article as well the other day.....and did not agree with many of the points.

First, I do not agree with the conclusion that RGIII has become a media diva. I have read no reports of him slacking off from rehab, from film study, from being a student of the game. Heck, he was even on time for the team picture. And, isn't he a team captain again? So that tells me that the guys in the locker room see the effort and dedication as well.

I classify the article as someone with an ax to grind with RGIII...or maybe it is with a black QB that the author expects to do more than just QB his team on Sundays.......much like that other mediot did last year when he questioned the "blackness" of RGIII.

The biggest divide I see in DC is between the two parties located in the capitol.....

As for our worst QB...god only knows how John Beck cannot be at the top of that long list.

I rooted for #11 and #17 during their respective times at the helm of the Redskins....though I have neither of their Jerseys. I do have my #10 jersey....and rotate that with my #7 and #9 jersey's to wear at the games.

[Kilmer72]

He's lauded by Skins fans as one of OUR great QBs. Never said he was being compared to other greats around the same time. Yes he completely showed up Elway (which is awesome) and destroyed the Broncos D. But he wasn't the reason we were even in that Superbowl. The other players get overlooked from the previous season and the 87 season, and Williams gets all of the credit. Mark Rypien also won a Superbowl and was the MVP. And he led the team to the playoffs three years in a row. He gets nowhere near the amount of credit as Williams in the eyes of Skins fans.

I'm not saying the Williams Superbowl win wasn't historically significant, because it was. But Williams as a player, is nowhere close to about a half a dozen other Skins QBs, and what they did for the team.

Doug Williams actually was great. When you consider he was brought in here as a back up, think of what he had to deal with in Tampa back in those days. Rypien had the Hogs, posse and a talented team,coaches everything. Statistics really don't mean much in this instance.

I remember that game. Doug dug down deep and had one last hurrah left in him and did something no one else ever had. He engineered an umbeliveable amount of points in one quarter. It was like magic, what ever I could think or I wished happen. This was the talent he always was. He came from Tampa, old and beat up. Gibbs was there when Doug was a rookie in Tampa. He knew who Doug was. Instead what we had was Schroeder who looked ok at times or really bad. He had a gun, but he used to fire ankle burners. I'll never forget that picture of him (Schroeder) in the post.

I guess you really have to decide on how great you really think he was. Rypien was tough and could block. Doug has a record that's hard to beat.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Willi ... n_football)