WashPost: Postons = No Winslow?

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:41 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dy ... ge=printer

Winslow's Choice of Agent Leaves Redskins Wary

By Mark Maske
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, April 7, 2004; 2:20 PM

University of Miami tight end Kellen Winslow isn't off the Washington Redskins' draft board. But he's very close, now that he apparently has decided to hire the Poston brothers to represent him.

People in NFL front offices use a made-up word -- "signability'' -- when they list the factors that go into deciding at this time of the year whether to draft a player. What a team official means when he uses that word in regard to a potential draftee is: Is he represented by an agent that we feel we can cut a deal with in July to get the kid into training camp on time, without a bitter contract dispute that makes him hate us and a long holdout that ruins his rookie season?

And when it comes to agents Carl and Kevin Poston, the Redskins and some other clubs seem to be leaning strongly toward simply steering clear of their clients.

The Redskins and linebacker LaVar Arrington are in a grievance procedure about $6.5 million that Arrington says the team promised him but didn't include in the $68 million contract extension that he signed in December. He's represented by the Postons.

Cornerback Ty Law is in an increasingly acrimonious dispute with the New England Patriots over negotiations to rework his contract. Law has called Patriots Coach Bill Belichick a liar and has said that he does not want to play for the team any longer. He perhaps could meet the same fate as former teammate Lawyer Milloy, the safety who was released by Belichick just before last season started after refusing to accept a pay cut. Law and Milloy are represented by the Postons.

Left tackle Orlando Pace was named the St. Louis Rams' franchise player in February to limit his mobility on the free agent market after he and the team were unable to agree to a long-term contract. He rejected an offer by the Rams that reportedly included a $13 million signing bonus, and was seeking a deal that reportedly would have included a $27 million signing bonus He is represented by the Postons. Pace instructed Carl Poston to lower his contract demands in hopes of reaching an agreement with the Rams when franchise players and their teams are permitted by NFL rules to reopen negotiations on long-term contracts in July.

Linebacker Ian Gold is perhaps the best player still available on the unrestricted free agent market. He is still available, according to a few teams, because his asking price has been too high, especially coming off a torn knee ligament. His options are narrowing now because clubs are focusing on the upcoming draft and their available cash and salary cap space are dwindling after most of the marquee free agents signed contracts as part of a March rush. Gold is represented by the Postons.

Many of the Postons' clients swear by them. Arrington and Law each called them the best agents in the NFL. The Postons work hard to get every last cent for their clients, and some of their players call them father figures.

But as far as some NFL teams are concerned, the Postons have crossed the line from being tough negotiators to being unnecessary headaches.

Executives from several NFL clubs now believe that the first four players off the board on draft day will be Mississippi quarterback Eli Manning, wide receivers Roy Williams of Texas and Larry Fitzgerald of Pittsburgh and Iowa left tackle Robert Gallery. If so, that would leave the Redskins, who have the fifth overall draft choice on April 24, deciding whether to trade down or select Winslow, Miami safety Sean Taylor or Oklahoma defensive tackle Tommie Harris.

Many scouts believe that Winslow is a transcendent talent who could be the most gifted player available in the draft. The Redskins need a tight end. But they had hoped that Winslow would hire Drew Rosenhaus or Eugene Parker, agents with whom they have had much better experiences. Winslow reportedly has made his selection of the Postons official by filing the necessary paperwork with the NFL Players Association.

Does that mean there's no chance that the Redskins will select Winslow? No. But certainly the chances are greatly diminished.

Some executives around the league say that the Poston factor should matter less with Winslow because negotiations for rookie contracts are far less combative than negotiations for veteran contracts. Rookie deals, they say, generally fit into slots based upon when the player is drafted. They say that any team interested in Winslow could, while on the draft-day clock, secure a handshake agreement on rough contract parameters.

But those arguments probably will have little sway with the Redskins. They thought they had such a handshake deal with the Postons when they drafted Arrington in April 2000, only to watch Arrington hold out from the early stages of training camp that summer when negotiations turned nasty. Some in the organization remain convinced that Taylor would be the best choice anyway, even without considering "signability'' issues. He is a ball-hawking safety who might change a club's defense the way that Roy Williams changed the Dallas Cowboys' defense.

The Redskins could select Harris, put him alongside free-agent addition Cornelius Griffin at tackle and consider the hole that has existed in the middle of their defensive line plugged. But team officials seem convinced that Brandon Noble will make it all the way back from the career-threatening knee injury that he suffered in a preseason game last year, and he can be paired with Griffin.

There undoubtedly will be some tempting trade offers for the Redskins. Teams will want to trade up for Gallery if he drops out of the top four. Teams might want to trade up for Williams or Fitzgerald if one of them drops. A club might want to get Miami of Ohio quarterback Ben Roethlisberger or Winslow or Harris or Oregon State tailback Steven Jackson if they're available. The Redskins could trade down, get an additional pick or two to go with their league-low three choices and attempt to fill their glaring need for a pass rusher by selecting a defensive end like Kenechi Udeze of USC or Will Smith of Ohio State.

But the most likely outcome remains the Redskins ending up with Taylor, especially now that Winslow has picked his representation.

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:45 pm

Too bad... I really wanted the next Tony Gonzalez on the Redskins.

I heard that Kellen Winslow SENIOR (father and former player of Gibbs at San Diego) asked the Redskins to rate the agents from best to worst (Parker, Postons, Rosenhaus)....and the Redskins told the Winslows that the Postons were their LEAST favorite agents to deal with....SO, the Winslows went ahead and teamed up with the Postons.

Sounds like Kellen Winslow DOES NOT WANT TO BE A REDSKIN! If that is the case, then F him. Lavar will take his head off in a future game.

Jake · Post by **Jake** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:34 pm

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 899&sid=10

Scooped :wink:

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 7:45 pm

C'mon, now. You want those "Can't Get right" agents representing your highest draft pick ?
Umm-ummm. LaVar, as smart as he is, will see the light on that matter as soon as his hurt pride heals.
Not me. I'd want a guy with better taste. The Poston Brothers represent arrogance now. Up theirs.

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:32 pm

Winslow Jr. is an idiot!!!!

How can you select somebody who screwed their client out of 6.5 million bucks?

It sucks that he was born an idiot. He could have done alot for this team. What sucks even more is that he actually wasted the Redskins time when he worked out for them that one day.

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:16 pm

I couldn't be happier that Winslow is getting repped by the Postons. I've wanted Sean Taylor all along, and finally it looks like we're getting him. K2's a good player but Taylor is even better!

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:28 pm

There is no need for Kellen Winslow! We have enough solid TE's that will get the job done! Our offense is going to be amazing! Remember Gibbs offense uses the TE primarily as a blocker! With Brunell/Ramsey, Portis, Coles, Gardner etc our offense will be top5!

RedskinsRule56 · Post by **RedskinsRule56** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 11:29 pm

I feel our D-line still needs a lot of help! I question whether Brandon Noble can come back from injury and get back his potential which was ok to begin with! I really want us to take Kenechi Udeze!

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:03 am

I don't think the Skins ever really wanted K2 the whole agents thing is just smokesreen. We have much more pressing needs then a TE.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:14 am

man, getting sean taylor would be SWEET!

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:29 am

Man you guys are sure down on agents. The Posten brothers are some of the best in the business. Just because they represent your star players and somethings are not going in your favor you guys hate there guts. Humm maybe Danny tried to go back on that 6.5 he was supposed to slip Lavar under the table.

The Winslows know what they are doing they are getting the best people for them, one of the best companies in sports marketing and management.If jr is a bust then oh well he will have some money, but if he is a star he will be SET.

Dayum just too much hate. Where is the love.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 8:36 am

gambit187 wrote:Man you guys are sure down on agents. The Posten brothers are some of the best in the business. Just because they represent your star players and somethings are not going in your favor you guys hate there guts. Humm maybe Danny tried to go back on that 6.5 he was supposed to slip Lavar under the table.

The Winslows know what they are doing they are getting the best people for them, one of the best companies in sports marketing and management.If jr is a bust then oh well he will have some money, but if he is a star he will be SET.

Dayum just too much hate. Where is the love.

i guess you choose not to read the article above that listed like 5 examples why teams in general don't deal with the postons. it doesn't sound like they can get the best for their clients when teams choose to try to sign other players just so they won't have to deal with the postons.

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:15 am

surferskin wrote:
gambit187 wrote:Man you guys are sure down on agents. The Posten brothers are some of the best in the business. Just because they represent your star players and somethings are not going in your favor you guys hate there guts. Humm maybe Danny tried to go back on that 6.5 he was supposed to slip Lavar under the table.

The Winslows know what they are doing they are getting the best people for them, one of the best companies in sports marketing and management.If jr is a bust then oh well he will have some money, but if he is a star he will be SET.

Dayum just too much hate. Where is the love.

i guess you choose not to read the article above that listed like 5 examples why teams in general don't deal with the postons. it doesn't sound like they can get the best for their clients when teams choose to try to sign other players just so they won't have to deal with the postons.

Hummm i read the article from Bias Mark Maske. Lets see this is what i got.

1. Milloy and Law represented by the Postons. Milloy got screwed and Law is hearing the same things that were told to Milloy being told to him. So he wants to make sure he gets his. I see the crap happen to people in corporate America day in day out, they just dont have the common sense or hustler mentality to know when they being played. The Postens do so they advice there clients in there best interest.

2. Rams dont wanna give all that money to Pace but he deserves it, but they will gladly pay all that money to those 3 QB's they have. Someone has to protect them.

Here is a quote from the article.

"Many of the Postons' clients swear by them. Arrington and Law each called them the best agents in the NFL. The Postons work hard to get every last cent for their clients, and some of their players call them father figures.

But as far as some NFL teams are concerned, the Postons have crossed the line from being tough negotiators to being unnecessary headaches."

Let me just inform you that contract negotiation is not a friendly thing, its supposed to be tough and stressful. Thats there job is to be a-holes, but then agian I should not scold you, its your job to be a disgruntled fan.

surferskin · Post by **surferskin** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:24 am

question gambit: if the redskin's pass on K2 because of the postons doesn't that cost him since he won't be getting #5 pick money? that hardly sounds like the postons ALWAYS get the best for their clients. and i remember hearing the pace was about to fire the postons because he was hurting his chances of staying a ram and our boy smoot pulled a trump on poston's A..."Poston...YOU'RE FIRED" :lol:

doesn't really sound like they're the best now does it?

skins75 · Post by **skins75** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:26 am

Gambit - You will soon know the meaning of the word "disgruntled fan". I wonder how often you will be on the board after the season starts. I think its pretty obvious that the Postons did not represent Lavars best interest. If they were in such a rush to sign and thats why they did not catch the money missing in his contract...why did it take a month to finally figure it out. Sounds like laziness or just plain bullcrap to me. There are a lot of teams saying this about the Postons not just the Redskins. But you believe whatever you want.

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:40 am

skins75 wrote:Gambit - You will soon know the meaning of the word "disgruntled fan". I wonder how often you will be on the board after the season starts. I think its pretty obvious that the Postons did not represent Lavars best interest. If they were in such a rush to sign and thats why they did not catch the money missing in his contract...why did it take a month to finally figure it out. Sounds like laziness or just plain bullcrap to me. There are a lot of teams saying this about the Postons not just the Redskins. But you believe whatever you want.

Yeah alot of teams have problems with them meaning the MANAGEMENT, have a problems with the Postens, but if you notice alot of their Clients swear by them. So you tell me if you were football player who would you trust more. Management or your AGENT. Mangements job is to get a good product for the cheapest price. Agents job is to get the best price for product.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:56 am

gambit187 wrote:Mangements job is to get a good product for the cheapest price. Agents job is to get the best price for product.

Your right in your explenation of there duties... but it sounds like these guys drive hard bargains and aren't very flexible.....i mean when one of the best O-Linemen in the league in O.Pace ask you to lower the demands... I mean somethings gotta tell you that these guys asking prices usually are more than the players worth..

gambit187 · Post by **gambit187** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:14 am

BringThePain! wrote:
gambit187 wrote:Mangements job is to get a good product for the cheapest price. Agents job is to get the best price for product.

Your right in your explenation of there duties... but it sounds like these guys drive hard bargains and aren't very flexible.....i mean when one of the best O-Linemen in the league in O.Pace ask you to lower the demands... I mean somethings gotta tell you that these guys asking prices usually are more than the players worth..

I agree with you on that to some degree my big green buddy, but you know taxes gotta be paid, bills have to be meet, children have to be feed, wive have to be taken care of and vacations have to be taken.......lol

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 10:24 am

gambit187 wrote:I agree with you on that to some degree my big green buddy, but you know taxes gotta be paid, bills have to be meet, children have to be feed, wive have to be taken care of and vacations have to be taken.......lol

Yeah those trips to Maui every 5 weeks can take a bite outta the ole wallet. :lol:

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:39 am

While Winslow Jr. may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, his father had some real input into the decision.

Why would Winslow Jr. go with the Postons? The only reason that I can think of is that he/they doesn't want to go to the Redskins and Gibbs.

While Gibbs is great at utilizing the TE, they often get the "dirty work" and are not really a focal point. I think Winslow Jr. wants to go to a system that would allow him to put up better "numbers".

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 2:43 pm

Remember Gibbs offense uses the TE primarily as a blocker!

Hmph. Tell that to Clint Didier. The fact is, Gibbs uses whatever talents his tight ends have. If they are capable of running a deep post or fly, you'll see them in a dep post or fly. If they can catch in traffic, you'll see them in short patterns. Don't fall into the "Gibb's is all about power running" trap. Gibbs uses the talent he has availible to best advantage. Gibbs would LOVE to have Winslow. But if he's not going to be a Gibbs type player, he'll let him pass to a lower pick... he'll make do with what he has and concentrate on something else. I would think that would be Taylor.

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 11:41 pm

Hey Countertrey, That is a great name and a great post!!!!

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 12:11 am

If we draft Winslow, he will most likely play H-back, not tight end, which may be a reason he doesn't want to be a Redskin...

skinsfaninroanoke · Post by **skinsfaninroanoke** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:01 am

Still, Didier was not a huge pass catcher - not in the way that Winslow's daddy was.

All in all, the Postons stink like last years compost heap. I don't believe that those two are in it just for their clients, and anyone suggesting that must think I am naive as all get out. Those two have caused as many problems for their big name clients as they have solved. There have been interesting developments lately, i.e. the Pace situation where they didn't tell him anything that was going on, the Arrington situation where from my understanding in talking with some people is that they blew it, had a misunderstanding and don't want to accept the responsibility of their inactions. There are several other big name clients who may end up without jobs, or tenuous jobs - 1 year at a time - because of their stances. If one of their clients receives a career ending injury while they are pounding on a team a year at a time, the client is screwed because they won't even be in line for an injury settlement cause all the team has to do is wait for the contract to be up to release them.

If I were in the NFL I would personally want a flat contract amount for a set time with no escalator, especially if I was on a team I supposedly liked. The reason is - if a team likes me, wants me to be there, why not ensure I have a job by not hitting the team with a huge number on my contract 3 years down the line? If I make 2 mil a year flat, with no escalation, wouldn't it be more likely that I would play the entire 5 years PLUS help the team by not killing the cap, maybe ensuring that I get a ring cause we have a good core of players the team can afford?

I mean these contracts sound lovely, but 10-11 million dollars in one year that you will NEVER see doesn't sound as good as 10-12 million, a solid home, a good team and maybe a championship sounds.

Just my two cents there

joebagadonuts · Post by **joebagadonuts** » Fri Apr 09, 2004 9:25 am

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:If I were in the NFL I would personally want a flat contract amount for a set time with no escalator, especially if I was on a team I supposedly liked. The reason is - if a team likes me, wants me to be there, why not ensure I have a job by not hitting the team with a huge number on my contract 3 years down the line? If I make 2 mil a year flat, with no escalation, wouldn't it be more likely that I would play the entire 5 years PLUS help the team by not killing the cap, maybe ensuring that I get a ring cause we have a good core of players the team can afford?

I mean these contracts sound lovely, but 10-11 million dollars in one year that you will NEVER see doesn't sound as good as 10-12 million, a solid home, a good team and maybe a championship sounds.

Just my two cents there

why play for a 'flat' contract when you can have all that money (or most of it) up front? the players are thinking that they have to get the money while they can. if you sign a flat contract, then get career-ending injury a year into the contract, you get just one year of salary. if you've gotten a signing bonus, that money is yours. and if you think that the team is going to take care of you if you get injured with a flat contract, that won't happen. that's why these guys take a chance on getting cut a few years down the road. plus, when they do get cut, they usually get another hefty signing bonus from another team.

it appears as if this is the new reality in the nfl. it just means that you only get to wear the jersey of your favorite player for 3 or 5 years, instead of 10 or 12.