Defense Plays Well, but Offense Plays Poorly and Vice Versa

[Red_One43]

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

It seems that on one side of the ball, we do well, but the other side does not. We lack the complete game.

What is causing it?

Also include in this dicussion the phenomenum of the playing to the level of the opponent? Is this really happening?

The Atlanta game has this element as well. Our D could not stop the Rams out the gate, but hold the 4-0, high potent Falcon O scoreless for nearly two quarters. The D rose to the level of the comp.

Are our players really dogging it against the likes of the Rams, Bengals and second half of the Bucs?

Keep in mind, these phenomenums have translated through two coaching staffs, Zorn and Shanahan, so we aren't talking about the occasional let down that happens to all teams.

[Red_One43]

The bottomline for me, this is all coaching. I understand the problems Zorn had: a meddling FO and trying to do too many things: HC and OC.

That produced a circus.

It appears that Mike vs Kyle is producing a subtle circus that is not so subtle with the performance on the field.

Haz is Haz. Three years was supposed to be the charm. All the starters except Williams have at least two years.

Can't blame it on personnel or injuries. Look at the Rams! No less than three injured O linemen.

This is squarely on the coaches and the fix is squarely on the coaches.

The formula for success is already here:

-Edge in the turnover battle.
-Top ranked offense.
-Top ranked running game.
-Defense has scored 3 TDs aleady.
-A defense that went toe to toe with a 4-0, high potent offense with one offense tied behind its back.

But changes in the way the coaches do business is a must to become consistent winners.

Mike and Kyle - Kyle does not play Mike football - there must a be some change in the way these two do business.
Haz - Would the Atlanta game plan have worked against the Rams? Rushing 4 produced Fletch's INT in the ram game. Haz seems to go back to his old ways (blitz crazy) against teams he feels are weak.

[KazooSkinsFan]

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?

Play calling

[CanesSkins26]

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?

Also include in this dicussion the phenomenum of the playing to the level of the opponent? Is this really happening?

The Atlanta game has this element as well. Our D could not stop the Rams out the gate, but hold the 4-0, high potent Falcon O scoreless for nearly two quarters.

Are our players really dogging it against the likes of the Rams, Bengals and second half of the Bucs?

Keep in mind, these phenomenums have translated through two coacning staffs, Zorn and Shanahan, so we aren't talking about the occasional let down that happens to all teams.

This is what mediocre teams do. Our roster still has plenty of holes and lacks depth at many positions, and these types of up and down, and inconsistent performances are what we should expect until more upgrades to the roster are made.

[Red_One43]

^I agree that that is what medicore teams do.

Here's something to ponder.

The Skins have filled a lot of holes since 2010. The roster has improved since then. Are you seeing much difference in our coaching since 2010?

[aswas71788]

I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.

Dude, we scored 40, 28, 38 and 24 points before this one. That wasn't playing well? Please...

[Red_One43]

I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.

I changed the title to "Defense Plays Well, but Offense Plays Poorly and Vice Versa."

I also made a couple of edits. Hope that that adds more clarity.

I am saying that the O played well in the Ram and Bengal losses and the D played poorly.

In the Atlanta loss, the D played well and the O played poorly. The offense played well in those games. But with one point to be made, the O only scored 3 points in the second half of the the Bucs game. Was it coaching (conservative play calling) or poor offensive play?

In the win against the Saints and Bucs, we didn't get a complete game by the D and had to hang on for dear life in both games.

[Red_One43]

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?

Play calling

I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.

[KazooSkinsFan]

The Atlanta game was another classic example of this phenomenum.

What is causing it?

Play calling

I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.

Agreed, but I meant on defense too. Haslett in my view doesn't adapt well when his game plan isn't working. This week, he had a good game plan. Ultimately I think they just got tired. But it seems like when the game plan isn't working, he just keeps calling the same plays.

[Bob 0119]

It was happening before Zorn. I remember it happening way back under Gibbs

Used to drive me crazy and is still my reason for thinking Greg Williams was over-rated as DC.

[Red_One43]

Play calling

I agree that it was play calling. How many times did we see the running game working last year and we never get into a rhythm to compliment it.

It seems like when we get a lead or the D is doing well, Kyle can't call plays well.

Agreed, but I meant on defense too. Haslett in my view doesn't adapt well when his game plan isn't working. This week, he had a good game plan. Ultimately I think they just got tired. But it seems like when the game plan isn't working, he just keeps calling the same plays.

I am with you on defense as well. It seems when the offense takes the lead, Haz starts blitzing again because the lead gives him a cushion.
I am thinking this happened against the Bucs. I haven't seen the game again, but when there is one on one coverage for the deep routes, it usually means Haz is blitzing again.

I just don't believe it is the players not getting up for the games. I believe it is the coaching game plan. This has been going on even under Gibbs II as Bob pointed out in his post above.

The difference in Gibbs is He made adjustments such as the 2005 season when we were 5-6. Gibbs decided to run the ball down the next 5 opponents throats. The players rallied behind him and that team played beyond it's talent and darn near beat Seattle if a certain DB hangs onto a ball.

[Red_One43]

It was happening before Zorn. I remember it happening way back under Gibbs

Used to drive me crazy and is still my reason for thinking Greg Williams was over-rated as DC.

Haz has that blitz happy mentality like Williams. Both coordinators put their DBs out on islands that they can't cover. Remember Walt Harris? He is toast with us. The Niners put him in a Zone and he makes the Pro Bowl. Carlos Rogers claims that the Niner D is simple. They just play football and look at them.

Haz and Williams' schemes are complicated. Players can't play instinctively. To me, Haz and Williams often put the scheme before considering the talents of their players. To me, Williams is a very good DC and Haz a good one and at times, their game plans show it, but to me, they cause their defenses to rollercoaster like we see conistently with the Skins. Greg Blache was another Hard headed DC who did things his way period.

[Deadskins]

I do not agree with you that the offense played well. I did not see it as any better than the defense. Both mediocre at best. Playing like they did yesterday, neither of them will win many games.

Dude, we scored 40, 28, 38 and 24 points before this one. That wasn't playing well? Please...

And don't forget the missed FGs. Could have been 12 more points in there.

[Red_One43]

I think that we have the talent to compete for a wild card berth this year. The Atlanta game showed it. New Orleans may not have a good D, but Monday Night Proved that that O is still potent, so I give the D credit for a good scheme in that game as well.

For those that think that we don't have the talent. Take a look at the Rams. Their O line is decimated and they have lots of holes to fill, but yet, they find themselves at 3-2 and having knocked off a previously undefeated Cardnal team. Two of their wins are against winning teams.

The Skins are better than its 2-3 record.

To me, the up and down play is due to the coaches with their complicated offensive and defensive play-books. So complicated that the D coordinator has no problem each week calling out players, in public, for missed assignments. If this is happening with two and three years of experience in this D. Simplifiy.

The offense is so complicated that Kyle can't get on the same sheet of music with Mike. This was a problem in 2010 and continues to be a problem. Mike said last year, we run the ball, we have been doing for 20 years. Yet, we were running the ball effectively on Sunday, but what happened - could not find the plays to compliment the run game. Saw that all of 2011.

This season is on the coaching game plan or lack of it.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Can't blame the coaches for all the drops rgiiis receivers had in the first half can you?

[Red_One43]

Can't blame the coaches for all the drops rgiiis receivers had in the first half can you?

I am talking about a systematic issue that has been going on for years.
Why against the most potent offenses, our defenses play well and against the lesser talented offenses, our defense plays poorly. Do you blame drops for this?

Do you blame drops for the lack of matching a pass game to compliment the success of your running game?

Those successess against Atlanta - running and keeping the Falcons O to one TD for almost three quarters point to players doing their job.

Are you going to tell me that against the Bengals and Rams, our players didn't come to play? I am confidently saying that our Zero blitz DC got his predictable playbook read on that Wildcat TD. He blamed it on Gomes, but the scheme was flawed from the beginning - Ask Jay Gruden and the rest of the Bengals.


One thing about drops, injuries and player mistakes with assignments - those need to be kept in context of the entire league. Check out pro football focus and you will see other teams have the same problems. Teams like the Rams have the coacning to compensate for it.

The Skins have better talent than the Rams. Then again, the Cowboys, have better talent than the Skins, but look where they are with us.
Coaching makes a difference - ask the Saints.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I think that we have the talent to compete for a wild card berth this year. The Atlanta game showed it. New Orleans may not have a good D, but Monday Night Proved that that O is still potent, so I give the D credit for a good scheme in that game as well.

One thing I like about our team this year is you never feel we can't win. Attitude is a big part of winning.

[SkinsJock]

I think that we have the talent to compete for a wild card berth this year. The Atlanta game showed it. New Orleans may not have a good D, but Monday Night Proved that that O is still potent, so I give the D credit for a good scheme in that game as well.

One thing I like about our team this year is you never feel we can't win. Attitude is a big part of winning.

^^ true dat - this team makes you feel better about watching them play

I do not agree with "we have the talent to compete ..." we do NOT

we are likely a 8 to 10 win franchise - we do NOT have the talent to compete - we have a lot of issues

at the same time ...

this team is not doing badly and every week you have the feeling we could actually win this ...


The Colts beat the Packers - IMO this ONLY happened because they wanted it more

There are many instances when the game is won by the team with more desire on that day

ALL of our coaches and players need to do a better job - missing kicks, dropping passes, missing blocks, bad preparation and bad play calling should be identified and corrected or those responsible should be out of here

this franchise needs to prepare to be a playoff contender and only those that are prepared to be better should be a part of that

[Deadskins]

we are likely a 8 to 10 win franchise - we do NOT have the talent to compete

8 - 10 wins is the very definition of competing.

[cvillehog]

Most teams have this problem. That's why the bell curve is shaped the way it is!

[SkinsJock]

I like the way this team has responded and I'm enjoying watching them play this year - we have some injuries and we have some holes to fill

we are close but ... with what we have and what we will add - next season, this squad will be contending for the playoffs

not saying we cannot be in the playoffs this season but without a really good WR, a decent O line AND D line with depth PLUS a decent secondary, this team is not going to be consistently competitive

I'll agree that the team is "competing" but ....

all of these teams compete each and every week - the Colts are not even close to being a good team but they knocked off the Packers - the stupid, low life, Browns put up 2 TDs early on the Giants

all I'm pointing out is that with RG3 having had a year and having both a decent O line and a true #1 WR plus a defense with a decent secondary - this squad should be really much better