The backfield: defensive edition

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Well I think its a decent signing. How about grabbing some help for the secondary?

we DID SIGN a CB....Redskins ‏@Redskins

#Redskins announce the signing of FA CB David Jones, who spent training camp with the team, and waive injured CB Crezdon Butler.
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Damn Crezdon is hurt too? Let's compile a list of hurt and suspended dbs.. its a long one!

Instead of thread jacking, I figured the dbs need a whole thread... And a make over. So let's keep track of them here.

We got Crezdon out ,Jones in...

Merriweather returning soon? Hopefully...

So who is starting?

J. Wilson, D. Hall, at cb
Williams, Doughty?, and Gomes/ Griffin at ss fs and nickel back?

Seeing how everyone is so turrable, why aren't we looking at Byron Westbrook or Barnes?? At least one has to be an upgrade?

Does Chase Minnifield get to come back this year? #doubtit

Injuries/ loses :
Merriweather: return soon?
Bernstein: knee tear season
Minnifield: microfracture- ir for season I think
Crezdon: Hami? Waived
Landry: sent packing to NYJ probably ir soon
Atogwe? Where did he end up? He got healthy at the end of last season
Jackson: Smfh smoked out of the league for a season


Feel free to add anything I've missed Smfh

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Some guy named Jordan Pugh is also on the roster for our safeties.. 5'11". The coaches might think about bringing in any college hoops player that went undrafted last year over 6' with ANY football experience at all at this point

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

According to Shannys presser Meriweather has been w the scout team getting plenty of reps all LAST week. So his return soon is hopeful but undetermined.

Eagles waved OJ Atogwe on Aug 31st

Byron Westbrook is currently an unrestricted FA -eh-

Kevin Barnes (who was seeing time at safety and outside corner in preseason) was traded to Detroit but waved on Sept 18. Kid played better then some who are here now w 2 picks and 26 combined tackles last year.

Phillip Buchanan only played one game last year, after his 4 game suspension, and went to the IR. He is a free agent now.


If we are so desperate in the backfield I say bring some of these guys in to compete at practice. I'd sign OJ and Barnes personally and PS one of the others.. IF after a workout for the team they looked to be in football shape, and healthy. Knowing the system any of these guys should be an upgrade I'd think.

Maybe SkinsJock can forward this thread to MS and the front office, ill contact the agents

[tribeofjudah]

Some guy named Jordan Pugh is also on the roster for our safeties.. 5'11". The coaches might think about bringing in any college hoops player that went undrafted last year over 6' with ANY football experience at all at this point

that's what I'm saying. Let's get several 6ft 4 guys who are quick, fast, strong and know how to cover...........for our backfield

[fetus]

soon enough you will be seeing santana moss and aldrick robinson playing corner

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Brandon merriweather was limited in practice, Cedric Giffin didn't practice
on O:
Trent sat out...
Hanktime full go and Royster limited.
No news on Garçon

[rskin72]

Some guy named Jordan Pugh is also on the roster for our safeties.. 5'11". The coaches might think about bringing in any college hoops player that went undrafted last year over 6' with ANY football experience at all at this point

that's what I'm saying. Let's get several 6ft 4 guys who are quick, fast, strong and know how to cover...........for our backfield

Ah...you mean the Seattle secondary, basiscally....

[Red_One43]

Brandon merriweather was limited in practice, Cedric Giffin didn't practice
on O:
Trent sat out...
Hanktime full go and Royster limited.
No news on Garçon

Garcon says that he is feeling better but won't say if he will be ready to play Sunday. It sounds like he won't according to what I heard on ESPN 980 Sports Reporters.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Brandon merriweather was limited in practice, Cedric Giffin didn't practice
on O:
Trent sat out...
Hanktime full go and Royster limited.
No news on Garçon

Garcon says that he is feeling better but won't say if he will be ready to play Sunday. It sounds like he won't according to what I heard on ESPN 980 Sports Reporters.

Ya there are some conflicting reports on the Twitter space...

I wouldn't count on him playing, and maybe not even until the gnats. No need to risk injury

[Irn-Bru]

Brandon merriweather was limited in practice, Cedric Giffin didn't practice
on O:
Trent sat out...
Hanktime full go and Royster limited.
No news on Garçon

Garcon says that he is feeling better but won't say if he will be ready to play Sunday. It sounds like he won't according to what I heard on ESPN 980 Sports Reporters.

Ya there are some conflicting reports on the Twitter space...

I wouldn't count on him playing, and maybe not even until the gnats. No need to risk injury

Is it risking injury to Garcon to have him play? My understanding was that it is basically a matter of pain management, and that he doesn't have extra risk of doing further damage.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Garcon says that he is feeling better but won't say if he will be ready to play Sunday. It sounds like he won't according to what I heard on ESPN 980 Sports Reporters.

Ya there are some conflicting reports on the Twitter space...

I wouldn't count on him playing, and maybe not even until the gnats. No need to risk injury

Is it risking injury to Garcon to have him play? My understanding was that it is basically a matter of pain management, and that he doesn't have extra risk of doing further damage.

Ya I hear ya, but to be fair...
if he let it heal longer, it wouldn't hurt as much- right?

[the poster]

we DID SIGN a CB....Redskins ‏@Redskins

#Redskins announce the signing of FA CB David Jones, who spent training camp with the team, and waive injured CB Crezdon Butler.
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Damn Crezdon is hurt too? Let's compile a list of hurt and suspended dbs.. its a long one!

Instead of thread jacking, I figured the dbs need a whole thread... And a make over. So let's keep track of them here.

We got Crezdon out ,Jones in...

Merriweather returning soon? Hopefully...

So who is starting?

J. Wilson, D. Hall, at cb
Williams, Doughty?, and Gomes/ Griffin at ss fs and nickel back?

Seeing how everyone is so turrable, why aren't we looking at Byron Westbrook or Barnes?? At least one has to be an upgrade?

Does Chase Minnifield get to come back this year? #doubtit

Injuries/ loses :
Merriweather: return soon?
Bernstein: knee tear season
Minnifield: microfracture- ir for season I think
Crezdon: Hami? Waived
Landry: sent packing to NYJ probably ir soon
Atogwe? Where did he end up? He got healthy at the end of last season
Jackson: Smfh smoked out of the league for a season


Feel free to add anything I've missed Smfh

they had champ Bailey, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor and laron Landry and lost them all. now they have a bunch of question marks. that's all that needs to be said. the answers to their secondary problems are not currently on their roster.

[Deadskins]

.


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[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I still can't help but wonder about Atogwe.. he started coming alive the last quarter of last season Hamstrings take time but by week 8 he should be 2 legit to quit!

[RayNAustin]

I believe the defensive problems are as much technique and strategy as of lack of talent or ability. And I believe it is reflective of the perception that the acknowledged medium talent of our DBs necessitates less aggressive techniques that are backfiring big time.

Soft zone coverage can be very effective if you generate good pressure with 4 pass rushers, but the moment that number increases to 5 or 6 rushers, and particularly if the offense picks up those rushers effectively, that leaves too many large gaps in the zone which good QBs and receivers will exploit badly, and it doesn't prevent big plays like zone coverage is designed to do. And that is what I think is happening to the Redskins defense. They're being too conservative, thinking that the talent available demands that philosophy. They're trying to protect these guys, and based on the yards, points, and number of big plays being given up .. it's obviously not working. The loss of Carriker and Rak, and Williams being MIA, is magnifying that problem.

I hope they stop, and rethink the strategy, and let these guys play more aggressive defense ... more press man coverage, and leave the free safety to play some center field action. This defense has got to play up, and challenge and disrupt these receiver's release off the line, and make those routs more time consuming to complete, which will in turn force the QB to hold the ball a bit longer allowing the pass rush to get there. Yes, that will put more pressure on the corners, and the risk of big plays, but can things really be worse than they are now? I don't think so.

We've played two straight weeks of very poor defense, so I don't see a reason not to change up, and just throw caution to the wind, and get after it. I know what the major source of hesitation is here, but at this point, you just have to be more bold, and let these guys earn their keep, or die trying.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I believe the defensive problems are as much technique and strategy as of lack of talent or ability. And I believe it is reflective of the perception that the acknowledged medium talent of our DBs necessitates less aggressive techniques that are backfiring big time.

Soft zone coverage can be very effective if you generate good pressure with 4 pass rushers, but the moment that number increases to 5 or 6 rushers, and particularly if the offense picks up those rushers effectively, that leaves too many large gaps in the zone which good QBs and receivers will exploit badly, and it doesn't prevent big plays like zone coverage is designed to do. And that is what I think is happening to the Redskins defense. They're being too conservative, thinking that the talent available demands that philosophy. They're trying to protect these guys, and based on the yards, points, and number of big plays being given up .. it's obviously not working. The loss of Carriker and Rak, and Williams being MIA, is magnifying that problem.

I hope they stop, and rethink the strategy, and let these guys play more aggressive defense ... more press man coverage, and leave the free safety to play some center field action. This defense has got to play up, and challenge and disrupt these receiver's release off the line, and make those routs more time consuming to complete, which will in turn force the QB to hold the ball a bit longer allowing the pass rush to get there. Yes, that will put more pressure on the corners, and the risk of big plays, but can things really be worse than they are now? I don't think so.

We've played two straight weeks of very poor defense, so I don't see a reason not to change up, and just throw caution to the wind, and get after it. I know what the major source of hesitation is here, but at this point, you just have to be more bold, and let these guys earn their keep, or die trying.

well put! Great points man, and I hope someone can fwd this to Haz asap!

[Red_One43]

I believe the defensive problems are as much technique and strategy as of lack of talent or ability. And I believe it is reflective of the perception that the acknowledged medium talent of our DBs necessitates less aggressive techniques that are backfiring big time.

Soft zone coverage can be very effective if you generate good pressure with 4 pass rushers, but the moment that number increases to 5 or 6 rushers, and particularly if the offense picks up those rushers effectively, that leaves too many large gaps in the zone which good QBs and receivers will exploit badly, and it doesn't prevent big plays like zone coverage is designed to do. And that is what I think is happening to the Redskins defense. They're being too conservative, thinking that the talent available demands that philosophy. They're trying to protect these guys, and based on the yards, points, and number of big plays being given up .. it's obviously not working. The loss of Carriker and Rak, and Williams being MIA, is magnifying that problem.

I hope they stop, and rethink the strategy, and let these guys play more aggressive defense ... more press man coverage, and leave the free safety to play some center field action. This defense has got to play up, and challenge and disrupt these receiver's release off the line, and make those routs more time consuming to complete, which will in turn force the QB to hold the ball a bit longer allowing the pass rush to get there. Yes, that will put more pressure on the corners, and the risk of big plays, but can things really be worse than they are now? I don't think so.

We've played two straight weeks of very poor defense, so I don't see a reason not to change up, and just throw caution to the wind, and get after it. I know what the major source of hesitation is here, but at this point, you just have to be more bold, and let these guys earn their keep, or die trying.

Well said! But look at Haslet's statements:

“We have to play better technique, No. 1. It’d be good to get guys healthy, get some guys back. But the big thing is to play with technique,” said Haslett, who spoke of communication breakdowns, missed tackles and coverage lapses when listing the reasons for the team’s struggles the last two games. “…We played our butts off in the first game against maybe the best offense that ever played in the National Football League [the New Orleans Saints], so, I know they can do it. We just have to keep working on it.”

Sounds as if Haz is as stubborn as Shanny. "We just have to keep working on it?" Sounds like no major changes to me.

“The rule was, at the time — and I take the blame for that one: we didn’t practice it all week – but [inside linebacker] London [Fletcher] was trying to check to it when they came out in it, and the rule is, the safety has the quarterback. He keeps an eye on him, he doesn’t cover him, just keeps an eye on him. And the corner’s got the wideout, so we just got misaligned.”

In the article has says that he knew the guy could throw, but they didn't practice for it.

But if we get lined up right, that’s OK. They were just taking a shot. If DeAngelo gets on him, we’re fine.”

Does he really believe that D. Hall can cover A. J. Green one-on-one?


LINK

[FanofallthatisGibbs]

It seems like a large part of the problem is assignment football. That is as much on the players as it is the coaches. The more players go down, schemes change to adapt for it and players have to know their new assignments as those schemes and plays are changed.

I dunno, it just feels like both coaches and players are letting each other down. No accountability and that has to change fast.

Relative to most teams, I think the Redskins are actually a pretty good tackling team. However, when we miss, we seem to miss BIG.

[chiefhog44]

I believe the defensive problems are as much technique and strategy as of lack of talent or ability. And I believe it is reflective of the perception that the acknowledged medium talent of our DBs necessitates less aggressive techniques that are backfiring big time.

Soft zone coverage can be very effective if you generate good pressure with 4 pass rushers, but the moment that number increases to 5 or 6 rushers, and particularly if the offense picks up those rushers effectively, that leaves too many large gaps in the zone which good QBs and receivers will exploit badly, and it doesn't prevent big plays like zone coverage is designed to do. And that is what I think is happening to the Redskins defense. They're being too conservative, thinking that the talent available demands that philosophy. They're trying to protect these guys, and based on the yards, points, and number of big plays being given up .. it's obviously not working. The loss of Carriker and Rak, and Williams being MIA, is magnifying that problem.

I hope they stop, and rethink the strategy, and let these guys play more aggressive defense ... more press man coverage, and leave the free safety to play some center field action. This defense has got to play up, and challenge and disrupt these receiver's release off the line, and make those routs more time consuming to complete, which will in turn force the QB to hold the ball a bit longer allowing the pass rush to get there. Yes, that will put more pressure on the corners, and the risk of big plays, but can things really be worse than they are now? I don't think so.

We've played two straight weeks of very poor defense, so I don't see a reason not to change up, and just throw caution to the wind, and get after it. I know what the major source of hesitation is here, but at this point, you just have to be more bold, and let these guys earn their keep, or die trying.

Well said! But look at Haslet's statements:

“We have to play better technique, No. 1. It’d be good to get guys healthy, get some guys back. But the big thing is to play with technique,” said Haslett, who spoke of communication breakdowns, missed tackles and coverage lapses when listing the reasons for the team’s struggles the last two games. “…We played our butts off in the first game against maybe the best offense that ever played in the National Football League [the New Orleans Saints], so, I know they can do it. We just have to keep working on it.”

Sounds as if Haz is as stubborn as Shanny. "We just have to keep working on it?" Sounds like no major changes to me.

“The rule was, at the time — and I take the blame for that one: we didn’t practice it all week – but [inside linebacker] London [Fletcher] was trying to check to it when they came out in it, and the rule is, the safety has the quarterback. He keeps an eye on him, he doesn’t cover him, just keeps an eye on him. And the corner’s got the wideout, so we just got misaligned.”

In the article has says that he knew the guy could throw, but they didn't practice for it.

But if we get lined up right, that’s OK. They were just taking a shot. If DeAngelo gets on him, we’re fine.”

Does he really believe that D. Hall can cover A. J. Green one-on-one?


LINK

I actually think he is right on with the assessment. I feel the same way. We HAVE been playing quite a bit a of single high safety with man press. We're not really getting beat in that coverage, except by missed tackles. Maybe we need to play it exclusively is what RAY is trying to say. I'm not sure that would be the best alternative. I do think you need to mix things up a bit. We got beat in the zone coverages we played because of lack of communication and missed assignments. That's VERY clear on the tape. There were times in the Rams game, Perry Riley was just flat was in the wrong coverage. It looked like he was either playing man on the RB in the flats while the rest of the team was playing zone, or he didn't understand where his zone was. DJ is great when he is playing back as evidenced on a deep ball breakup against the Rams, but struggles closer to the line. I think Meriweather helps us here. Riley will continue to learn.

[cvillehog]

I saw an RT from Boss Hog that said Merriweather is back for Sunday, so that's something.

[riggofan]

Sounds as if Haz is as stubborn as Shanny. "We just have to keep working on it?" Sounds like no major changes to me.

Eh, I don't know if this strikes me as Haz being stubborn. Unless you want him to say, "We need to scrap everything we've worked on for the past three years and do something different." Which, maybe some people do!

I don't know how many of you guys coach football, basketball, soccer, whatever. But if you do, I bet you can sympathize a little bit with Haz on that response. You can tweak formations and lineups, work on specific shortcomings at practice. But sometimes there is no quick fix. You just have the players you have and those guys need to keep working to execute better.

[Red_One43]

Sounds as if Haz is as stubborn as Shanny. "We just have to keep working on it?" Sounds like no major changes to me.

Eh, I don't know if this strikes me as Haz being stubborn. Unless you want him to say, "We need to scrap everything we've worked on for the past three years and do something different." Which, maybe some people do!

I don't know how many of you guys coach football, basketball, soccer, whatever. But if you do, I bet you can sympathize a little bit with Haz on that response. You can tweak formations and lineups, work on specific shortcomings at practice. But sometimes there is no quick fix. You just have the players you have and those guys need to keep working to execute better.

Mix up the coverages. Fletch, after the Rams game, said maybe we need to mix up the coverages more. He seemed at a loss as to why the D gave up so many yards and points. After the Bengals game, he said words to the effect that everybody has to do their jobs better and just before he finished the interview, he said the coaches too.

Now, that is coming from your defensive team leader.

How about practicing for the Wildcat which you know the Bengals do? Haz admitted that they didn't practice for it. You may not have seen him (Sanu) throw the deep one, but at least practice what you claim should have happened.

Again, does Haz really think that D. Hall can cover Green one on one? See his comments quoted in this thread. Green is going to win a high percentage of that match up. When Morris took over as secondary coach, he said that he was going to coach up Hall to his potential as a cover guy. He needs to let Haz know that it takes time.

Finally, match your scheme with the talent and strengths of your players. See Jim Harbough. Carlos summarizing the scheme at San Fran - they let us play football - which means they keep it simple.

I like the Pittsburgh D Scheme, but we do not have that talent yet to pull it off game after the game. Haz will have some more good games like N.O., but Haz has been inconsistent his two years and 3 games here. There is no indication that this trend will change.

For two years, I have made excuses for Haz, but when I look at the Rams game in 2010 and the Rams game in 2012, I see basically the same failed scheme against Bradford. You can't convince me that the players didn't play their hearts out. Sure they made mistakes and have been making mistakes because they aren't allowed to play football - too complicated a scheme often equals too much thinking and not enough instinct.

Not saying Haz should be fired. I am saying, let these guys play football, they have the work ethic, hearts and desire to win ball games.

[the poster]

I believe the defensive problems are as much technique and strategy as of lack of talent or ability. And I believe it is reflective of the perception that the acknowledged medium talent of our DBs necessitates less aggressive techniques that are backfiring big time.

I agree. they have garbage talent in their secondary and they combine it with terrible strategy. and it equals a recipe that redskins fans are all too familiar with: last place.

Perhaps it's time for yet another coaching change. I would say they need to upgrade the talent too but that will be next to impossible as teams don't like letting their top DBS get away in FA, Washington won't have the cap space to attract them anyways, and their top draft picks belong to the st. Louis rams for the forseeable future.

maybe rg3 can play safety too? (why not, it took the team three players to get him)

[Deadskins]

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