The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I hesitated to start this thread but I think it's relevant.

I didn't do so to start a fire or fan any flames and for all I know it will die with few views and no replies.

I've been a Redskin fan for a long time - not as long as some of you but probably longer than most. I'm old enough to remember riots in DC in the '60s. I remember seeing signs like this in my neighborhood.



I remember no black QBs. I remember RFK and the team truly being Washington's. It really wasn't that long ago.

Indy and we are about to choose "the face of the franchise."

I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race.

Washington DC is currently 51% black, 38% white, and 11% other. I am sure if I went downtown right now and asked 1,000 people at random who they'd want as our QB, RGIII would win and one of the main reasons, voiced or not, for many, would be his race.

Indy is currently 69% white, 25% black, and 6% other. I am also sure my random poll there would produce Luck as the winner and that race would be a main reason.

I'm not saying this to stir up controversy. I don't think it's wrong to lean one way or another based on race. I'm a Blackfoot and would have loved to have seen us land Bradford (Cherokee) a few years ago. One of the reasons I would prefer RGIII is I think he'd be a more appropriate "face of the franchise" given the history of this area as I have experienced it.

I'd be interested to hear other thoughts. I'm not going to argue unless it's in self-defense after being outright attacked.

Anybody want to chime in?

DarthMonk

Some of my best friends are Blackfoot.

I think skin color was a major factor when it came to the QB position, but times have changed. People may still think the same but when it comes to their football team they just want to win. Color be damned.

Then again just like with Cam last year the subject will come up.

1niksder wrote:I think skin color was a major factor when it came to the QB position, but times have changed. People may still think the same but when it comes to their football team they just want to win. Color be damned.

Then again just like with Cam last year the subject will come up.

+1

DarthMonk wrote:I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race

I don't see anything that would be different if the races were switched. People think Luck is the next in the Brady/Manning mold and RG3 is the next in the Vick mold. Brady/Manning have 7 super bowl appearances and 4 wins between them. Vick has zero. Vick is also hurt more. But if you look at Vick on the field, wow. I'd take Luck if we have a choice, I'll be thrilled with either and we're guaranteed to get one.

I know what you're saying and I agree that while the percentage is decreasing there are still a lot of people who do consider race. But I think the way to move past race is to stop obsessing about it. It used to be accepted, now you keep it to yourself and take it outside, most people don't want to hear racist comments. We need to stop listening to the race whore's like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as well. And we shouldn't ignore race either.

I don't mean this as a lecture to you and I apologize if it sounds that way. I'm just saying my views on the topic.

The Hogster wrote:Some of my best friends are Blackfoot.

I think Doug Williams is still the only black QB to win a SB, isn't he? He did that as a Redskin. Not sure if that makes a difference, but it seems significant in this discussion for some reason.

Still the only one

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race

I don't see anything that would be different if the races were switched. People think Luck is the next in the Brady/Manning mold and RG3 is the next in the Vick mold. Brady/Manning have 7 super bowl appearances and 4 wins between them. Vick has zero. Vick is also hurt more. But if you look at Vick on the field, wow. I'd take Luck if we have a choice, I'll be thrilled with either and we're guaranteed to get one.

I know what you're saying and I agree that while the percentage is decreasing there are still a lot of people who do consider race. But I think the way to move past race is to stop obsessing about it. It used to be accepted, now you keep it to yourself and take it outside, most people don't want to hear racist comments. We need to stop listening to the race whore's like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as well. And we shouldn't ignore race either.

I don't mean this as a lecture to you and I apologize if it sounds that way. I'm just saying my views on the topic.

+1 The sad thing is its not going to go away untill a black QB wins more than one super bowl. But race had nothing to do with witch one I want.

I think race is only an issue with the fans.

I don't care if the guy is pink, just win games!

ATX_Skins wrote:I think race is only an issue with the fans.

I don't care if the guy is pink, just win games!

In business I always say I care only about one color...green... That's why I'm here. Capitalism is the way to end discrimination in the market. Typical government stupidity is to end discrimination with discrimination and frivolous lawsuits.

Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race

I don't see anything that would be different if the races were switched. People think Luck is the next in the Brady/Manning mold and RG3 is the next in the Vick mold. Brady/Manning have 7 super bowl appearances and 4 wins between them. Vick has zero. Vick is also hurt more. But if you look at Vick on the field, wow. I'd take Luck if we have a choice, I'll be thrilled with either and we're guaranteed to get one.

I know what you're saying and I agree that while the percentage is decreasing there are still a lot of people who do consider race. But I think the way to move past race is to stop obsessing about it. It used to be accepted, now you keep it to yourself and take it outside, most people don't want to hear racist comments. We need to stop listening to the race whore's like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson as well. And we shouldn't ignore race either.

I don't mean this as a lecture to you and I apologize if it sounds that way. I'm just saying my views on the topic.

+1 The sad thing is its not going to go away untill a black QB wins more than one super bowl. But race had nothing to do with witch one I want.

It probably won't go away then either. People on the whole aren' critical thinkers. Some people like to say that only 1 black QB has won the Superbowl, but they ignore the fact that there are relatively few black QBs.

It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades, and for some reason the white ones win and the black ones don't.

Racism sucks!

I'm with you guys, I can care less what their skin colors are... black arm, green arm, purple arm, as long as his form isn't like Tebow's, I'm all for them!

When Jason Campbell showed up, a lot of Washingtonians were hoping he could be the second coming of Doug Williams, for a number of reasons including obviously race and his jersey number.

For (again) a number of reasons, that comparison proved not to be a good one. It'd be cool if RGIII could pick up that legacy and be a black QB for young Redskins fans to admire and look up to. I know a lot of my friends growing up wanted to be #17.

Irn-Bru wrote:When Jason Campbell showed up, a lot of Washingtonians were hoping he could be the second coming of Doug Williams, for a number of reasons including obviously race and his jersey number.

For (again) a number of reasons, that comparison proved not to be a good one. It'd be cool if RGIII could pick up that legacy and be a black QB for young Redskins fans to admire and look up to. I know a lot of my friends growing up wanted to be #17.

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:I think race is only an issue with the fans.

I don't care if the guy is pink, just win games!

In business I always say I care only about one color...green... That's why I'm here. Capitalism is the way to end discrimination in the market. Typical government stupidity is to end discrimination with discrimination and frivolous lawsuits.

i agree

+1

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

Why is "racism" the first explanation rather then the last? Is it "racism" that NFL cornerbacks are all black? I'm not saying white wasn't a factor with QB's, but the game has changed and there are a lot of factors. I'm just tired of wow, blacks don't do that, people start with racism. When something is more dominated by whites, that is. If blacks dominate, it's OK. I'm not proposing an alternate theory, just tired of the one size fit's all productive discussion ender.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

Why is "racism" the first explanation rather then the last?

Who said it was? I was just pointing out that Hogster's ruling out racism off hand, might not be justified.

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

I'm not disagreeing with you on this. I do think it has played a part. I do think the role that race has played has eroded over the years. It is still there though. I think it's more of an issue to fans. Otherwise we wouldn't see football people in unison behind RG 3 and even willing to trade up to get him. Also, I like how people are high on his character which says a lot about progress. In all realness, there are a lot of people outside of football who still think a black guy with braids can't be a good guy.

Deadskins wrote:

kaz wrote:Why is "racism" the first explanation rather then the last?

Who said it was? I was just pointing out that Hogster's ruling out racism off hand, might not be justified.

He ruled racism off out of hand? What are you talking about?

Deadskins wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

Why is "racism" the first explanation rather then the last?

Who said it was? I was just pointing out that Hogster's ruling out racism off hand, might not be justified.

Sorry... I don't see where Hogster did that, either... and your attempt to suggest that it could be some grand national high school conspiracy is so contrived as to make your argument silly. Think about it... how many white HS quarterbacks are there in DC? Atlanta? New Orleans? Detroit? Is that a function of racism, or population mix? You could probably search and find a high school coach somewhere who has a suspicious pattern... but, dude, high school coaches want to win as much as college and pro coaches. They will play the kid whom they think gives him the best chance of doing that.

The history of racism in the NFL is clear... as in our society, it's certainly not gone... but it's clearly covert, and represents a loosing philosophy. But, the numbers of black quarterbacks in the NFL is certainly not the result of a current bias towards whites... that's simply a losing proposition... nor is is a function of a lack of opportunites in pre-college sports.

Making an argument for the sake of making an argument is... silly.

Countertrey wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:It's not like there has been 16 white QBs and 16 black QBs in the league every year for the last 3 decades

Couldn't that be because of racism, though? Maybe black kids don't get the chance to play QB at the young levels of the game.

Why is "racism" the first explanation rather then the last?

Who said it was? I was just pointing out that Hogster's ruling out racism off hand, might not be justified.

Sorry... I don't see where Hogster did that, either... and your attempt to suggest that it could be some grand national high school conspiracy is so contrived as to make your argument silly. Think about it... how many white HS quarterbacks are there in DC? Atlanta? New Orleans? Detroit? Is that a function of racism, or population mix? You could probably search and find a high school coach somewhere who has a suspicious pattern... but, dude, high school coaches want to win as much as college and pro coaches. They will play the kid whom they think gives him the best chance of doing that.

The history of racism in the NFL is clear... as in our society, it's certainly not gone... but it's clearly covert, and represents a loosing philosophy. But, the numbers of black quarterbacks in the NFL is certainly not the result of a current bias towards whites... that's simply a losing proposition... nor is is a function of a lack of opportunites in pre-college sports.

Making an argument for the sake of making an argument is... silly.

I'm not doing that. And who said anything about high school? I started playing football at the age of 6. I played Pop Warner right here in Atlanta, (one of those "black" cities to you, I guess). I just think coaches start from when kids are little and put players in the positions that best suit their skills, and that means fast kids play RB, and WR on offense, and the fat, slow kids play the line positions, and not many black kids get to play QB. I'm sure if the team is 90-100% black, then you get black QBs, but as the kids age, their positions kind of get set. I'm not saying the racism is overt, or mean spirited, just that white kids get more opportunities at QB.

To answer the original question, I think the preference for RG3 is down to the type of player he is. He's the more exciting, less conventional QB of the two. If he was white and Luck was black I think he'd still be the preferred option of most skins fans, but I'm sure the fact he is black only makes it that much sweeter to many.

As far as racism in the NFL goes, you only need to look at the introduction of Rooneys Rule to see the impact positive discrimination had on the number of black head coaches.

We simply need to have more black faces in positions of power to dispell ancient institutional racism.

The misguided belief that black people are great athletes but you need a white head to organise things still prevails. Black QBs were a rarity 20 years ago, but that's changing now. We now need to see Superbowl winning black QBs, the next step up from succesful QBs like Cunningham and McNabb. Hopefully RG3 will be just that, and hopefully in a Redskin uniform.

We've had only one black QB win it and only one black head coach (I think!) so that's still a long way off where we should be in 2012.

I believe things are going in the right direction. I look forward to the day that this kind of conversation is redundant regarding any part of society, nevermind football.

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:We've had only one black QB win it and only one black head coach (I think!) so that's still a long way off where we should be in 2012.

SLR, here's a little assist for you. Dungy and Tomlin are the two head black coaches to win Super Bowls.