The Browns will edge us out for RG3

[Prowl33]

The Browns are really in control of this, if they want him, they will get him, and if they don't want him, then we will, it's that simple.

Look at this from the Rams perspective, not the Redskins for just a second. I have my franchise QB in Sam Bradford and I am trying to build a great team around him. If I trade with the Browns, I can pick Blackmon at #4, and I also can potentially get another late 1st round pick, I can pick up an extra 2nd round this year as well, or if not that an extra early 3rd and maybe a 2nd next year. When we talk about picks next year, I am more likely to get better picks out of the Browns next year than I am the Skins.

As someone that is trying to turn over my organization right now, it's too hard to turn down 2 #1's in the same draft year to get the ball rolling immediatly.

So, again, if the Browns want him, they will get him, if they don't then we will. I see the browns as wanting RG3 more than us, they NEED an electrifying player and if they don't get one, their organization will continue to stay in the *sh$t*, where as although I agree we would be a lot better off with RG3, if we do not get him, we can still build around other QB's in the draft.

[RayNAustin]

The Browns are really in control of this, if they want him, they will get him, and if they don't want him, then we will, it's that simple.

Look at this from the Rams perspective, not the Redskins for just a second. I have my franchise QB in Sam Bradford and I am trying to build a great team around him. If I trade with the Browns, I can pick Blackmon at #4, and I also can potentially get another late 1st round pick, I can pick up an extra 2nd round this year as well, or if not that an extra early 3rd and maybe a 2nd next year. When we talk about picks next year, I am more likely to get better picks out of the Browns next year than I am the Skins.

As someone that is trying to turn over my organization right now, it's too hard to turn down 2 #1's in the same draft year to get the ball rolling immediatly.

So, again, if the Browns want him, they will get him, if they don't then we will. I see the browns as wanting RG3 more than us, they NEED an electrifying player and if they don't get one, their organization will continue to stay in the *sh$t*, where as although I agree we would be a lot better off with RG3, if we do not get him, we can still build around other QB's in the draft.

This really isn't true at all .... what the Redskins have already been reported to have on offer is significantly more than two first round picks this year.

You have to look at the point values .... that's how these offers are compared with each other. That's not to say that the Rams wouldn't take less overall value for more up front value in this year's draft, but that would be a bit short sighted of them, unless there were some compelling reason, such as two players that they absolutely want to grab this year in the 1st rd.

[frankcal20]

I'm pretty sure we could put this in one of the many threads we have going but I agree 100%. I am a fan of getting the team ready for the 1 player. It's not like there won't be another "projected franchise QB" in next years draft and the year after. There's a guy or two every year. I also feel like next years draft has a better selection of QB's. The #1 QB I want this year is Luck because you know what you're going to get with him. He's played in shotgun and under center. He's played in a pro-style offense his career under a hell of a current NFL coach who's a ball buster. We know he's smart (so is RG3) and it's not like he's unathletic. Hell, his stats mirrored Cam Newton's for God sake. I say if we're going to make an offer, give it to Indy for the same. Get Luck and be a BIG winner in the draft or hold pat, use all our picks this year to fill area's of need JUST like we did last year and then have a team ready for a QB next year. We can do it. Just have to remain patient and stay the course.

[riggofan]

Seems like your thread title should be called "the browns CAN edge us out for RGIII" not "the browns WILL edge us out for RGIII".

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this point has been driven into the ground in a couple threads already. Two #1 this year beats #1 this year and #1 next year. We have to pony up a little more if we want to get past Cleveland.

Frankcal, I know what you're saying about waiting until next year, but do you really think Shanahan can go into his third year without some kind of plan for QB? It just doesn't seem realistic to me given his results so far. I think whether it is RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, etc; he has to get a QB this year.

I guess the only wildcard in all of this is if we somehow get Peyton Manning.

[SouthLondonRedskin]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shanny bought time for himself last year by telling Dan the man that they'll trade down and upgrade across the board last year and sort out a QB this year.

That would explain the whole Rex v Beck nonsense last year. None of us truly believed our long term QB option was one of those two, but we were intrigued by the contest and hopeful nonetheless.

I dont think Shanny can go into season 3 without a QB either, it just looks so bad on him. As I said before, if we struggle with RG3 he'll get another season at least to build around him, but if we struggle again without a QB in place then public opinion will be against him as people will have no patience left.

Look at Cam Newton. They struggled last year but their fans are pumped because they have an exciting QB, they are losing but are always in the game and scoring points. Therefore they'll back the team and have a bit more patience because they feel they are moving in the right direction.

[frankcal20]

Seems like your thread title should be called "the browns CAN edge us out for RGIII" not "the browns WILL edge us out for RGIII".

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this point has been driven into the ground in a couple threads already. Two #1 this year beats #1 this year and #1 next year. We have to pony up a little more if we want to get past Cleveland.

Frankcal, I know what you're saying about waiting until next year, but do you really think Shanahan can go into his third year without some kind of plan for QB? It just doesn't seem realistic to me given his results so far. I think whether it is RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, etc; he has to get a QB this year.

I guess the only wildcard in all of this is if we somehow get Peyton Manning.

I agree and I fully expect that they have a plan. Their plan may be getting their guy whoever it is this year. But it may also be targeting a free agent or continue to build the team this year and getting a guy next year like they did with Cutler. None of us know. At this point, it's all speculation and how WE would build our team. All I know is we'll all know here VERY soon.

[emoses14]

Seems like your thread title should be called "the browns CAN edge us out for RGIII" not "the browns WILL edge us out for RGIII".

Anyway, I'm pretty sure this point has been driven into the ground in a couple threads already. Two #1 this year beats #1 this year and #1 next year. We have to pony up a little more if we want to get past Cleveland.

Frankcal, I know what you're saying about waiting until next year, but do you really think Shanahan can go into his third year without some kind of plan for QB? It just doesn't seem realistic to me given his results so far. I think whether it is RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, etc; he has to get a QB this year.

I guess the only wildcard in all of this is if we somehow get Peyton Manning.

I agree and I fully expect that they have a plan. Their plan may be getting their guy whoever it is this year. But it may also be targeting a free agent or continue to build the team this year and getting a guy next year like they did with Cutler. None of us know. At this point, it's all speculation and how WE would build our team. All I know is we'll all know here VERY soon.

God dammit, when? This is eventually going to drive me bananas. Thank god for the Georgetown Hoyas, Conference tournaments and the big dance to take my mind off Ashburn until early april.

[Skeletor]

This will start to sort itself out in about 10 days. Who signs Manning? Who signs Flynn?

The Rams have a major poker game going on right now. They want to sell the pick while you have multiple teams needing QBs. If the Browns and Phins sign Manning and Flynn. Well, now the demand for RG3 drops precipitously. Rams would have to deal with the Skins or drop down to Seattle's pick or worse.

That's why the Rams would like to deal the pick now, when demand is highest. It's a high stakes game of chicken.

My guess, however, is that Skins have a plan A, B and C. Plan A may very well be sign Manning, draft Tannehill (or wait till next year for QB). Plan B might be RG3, Plan C might be Tannehill at 6...

Should be one of more exciting two months in Skins' offseason history. and that's saying a lot!!!

[tribeofjudah]

NOT IF ............Shanny and Fish are drinking buddies (which I hope they are)...HAHAHA

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

What if the Browns had a young qb and had needs across the board not just at qb?
O wait they do.
So as cool as it is for them having 2 firsts.. They won't trade them both away if they are at least as smart as me lol

[DarthMonk]

The Browns' 2 1st round picks this year are worth 1800 + 780 = 2580 points which is 20 points under the value of the Rams' pick. Our 1st this year is worth 1600 points. If we pick 16th next year that pick is worth 1000 points. That is how early we have to pick to make our 2 #1s worth more than the Browns' 2 #1s. We really have as much ammo as they do. It will come down to who wants him more.

DarthMonk

The Browns are really in control of this, if they want him, they will get him, and if they don't want him, then we will, it's that simple.

Look at this from the Rams perspective, not the Redskins for just a second. I have my franchise QB in Sam Bradford and I am trying to build a great team around him. If I trade with the Browns, I can pick Blackmon at #4, and I also can potentially get another late 1st round pick, I can pick up an extra 2nd round this year as well, or if not that an extra early 3rd and maybe a 2nd next year. When we talk about picks next year, I am more likely to get better picks out of the Browns next year than I am the Skins.

As someone that is trying to turn over my organization right now, it's too hard to turn down 2 #1's in the same draft year to get the ball rolling immediatly.

So, again, if the Browns want him, they will get him, if they don't then we will. I see the browns as wanting RG3 more than us, they NEED an electrifying player and if they don't get one, their organization will continue to stay in the *sh$t*, where as although I agree we would be a lot better off with RG3, if we do not get him, we can still build around other QB's in the draft.

This really isn't true at all .... what the Redskins have already been reported to have on offer is significantly more than two first round picks this year.

You have to look at the point values .... that's how these offers are compared with each other. That's not to say that the Rams wouldn't take less overall value for more up front value in this year's draft, but that would be a bit short sighted of them, unless there were some compelling reason, such as two players that they absolutely want to grab this year in the 1st rd.

[Skeletor]

except that next year's picks are usually downgraded a round for trades. A 1st round pick next year is equal to a 2nd round pick this year...

Or so I've heard...

[The Hogster]

I think the Skins 2013 1st is just as valuable as the Browns 22nd.

Even if we land RG3, there's a good chance we won't be one of the 10 best teams in the NFL

[DarthMonk]

Could be but here is what I found:

"The popular trade value chart, created by former Dallas Cowboys’ head coach Jimmy Johnson, is somewhat antiquated, but still very useful in determining trade value surrounding NFL draft picks.

A pick in the next year’s draft is tough to value, but most value at the same value as the team’s current year’s pick."

http://www.newerascouting.com/nfl-draft ... lue-chart/

DarthMonk

except that next year's picks are usually downgraded a round for trades. A 1st round pick next year is equal to a 2nd round pick this year...

Or so I've heard...

[tribeofjudah]

BOOO for this thread.....hahaha

[skinsfan#33]

I think the Skins 2013 1st is just as valuable as the Browns 22nd.

Even if we land RG3, there's a good chance we won't be one of the 10 best teams in the NFL

While I would agree with you, most nfl teams wouldn't. Two birds in the hand are better than one in hand and one in the bush, even if that one in the bush is a better bird. They would rather have the picks this year.

Who knows how long a coach will have a job. Most need to win now! Jeff Fisher probably has 3 or 4 years to get the Rams headed in the right direction, so maybe he would be more interested in draft pick spread out over a couple of years.

[1niksder]

Could be but here is what I found:

"The popular trade value chart, created by former Dallas Cowboys’ head coach Jimmy Johnson, is somewhat antiquated, but still very useful in determining trade value surrounding NFL draft picks.

A pick in the next year’s draft is tough to value, but most value at the same value as the team’s current year’s pick."

http://www.newerascouting.com/nfl-draft ... lue-chart/

DarthMonk

except that next year's picks are usually downgraded a round for trades. A 1st round pick next year is equal to a 2nd round pick this year...

Or so I've heard...

I've always heard picks lose a round of value and slotted as the spot as the current year's pick... next year's second would hold the value of the 7th pick in the 3rd round.

Here's a nice read...

He used equal value from year to year and also devalued future picks 25% per year.

There is a thought floating out there that the Jimmy Johnson draft value chart is outdated. It probably is outdated. In fact, I believe every team in the NFL has their own modified Draft Value Chart that is proprietary to their own team. Top Secret stuff.

I do believe that these proprietary charts are similar to the Jimmy Johnson in that it when graphed it forms a negative non-linear slope. I have referred to it as the "Skateboard Ramp". Jimmy Johnson's Draft Value Chart.

In fact, I believe, in each Draft, each team grades every player and may modify their draft value chart and create a specific draft value chart for that particular year. The slope could have different levels and places of plateau and steepness year to year as you move down the rounds.

The problem is - you have to trade with another NFL team who grades each player slightly or very differently. Each team has their own draft value chart and won't share it with you. So what do you do? You start the conversation around the Jimmy Johnson chart, a publicly shared version that people can agree on as a baseline for a trade. It may exceed or fall short of the Jimmy Johnson specs, but it forms a baseline to start a conversation. That is why I think it may be still relevant (and the Julio Jones trade says it is).

Some teams may already be looking into this one



Click the Chart for the link that explains the chart values.
IMO: It actually seem to be a better tool.

[chiefhog44]

If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog.

[SkinsJock]

Just what I needed - ANOTHER thread to spray my rhetoric

It's TRUE - the Browns do have the edge but ...


as many have pointed out here in MANY OTHER threads about the same topic


The Redskins are more than willing to give up the picks that many consider way too much

The Browns are NOT willing to give up too much for RGIII

why does this keep getting discussed

The Browns are NOT giving up what it will take and the Redskins will


PLUS


Fisher is going to give the Redskins the last shot at making the deal work

RGIII is going to be in B&G


I'm STILL stiff for Griff

[CanesSkins26]

If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog.

Excellent points. The Rams aren't going to trade down just for the sake of trading down. They need offensive line and wr help. If they don't like Reiff or Martin that could make it difficult for us to make a deal with them. Our best hope is that the Browns sign Flynn or another veteran qb.

[chiefhog44]

If we want him, we will get him, we just have to offer more than the Rams. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about who the Rams would want at the number 6 spot. There is the problem. They would want Kalil, gone to Vikings. They would want Blackmon, gone to the Browns. They would want Claiborne, gone to the Bucs. Now what? I'm guessing they would take Coples. Fisher would love to get a defensive cog.

Excellent points. The Rams aren't going to trade down just for the sake of trading down. They need offensive line and wr help. If they don't like Reiff or Martin that could make it difficult for us to make a deal with them. Our best hope is that the Browns sign Flynn or another veteran qb.

This guy doesn't think the Skins spot is worth it for the Rams and thus will trade with the Browns. I'm getting nervous that we're gonna end up with Tannehill with the 6th pick. The other side of this is there's not much to trade up to the 6th spot for http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/22825103/ ... 6#46591996

[Prowl33]

I didn't even think about that, who do the Ram's want, and if they trade down to #6, will they still get that person, plus, who do they have someone they want in late round 1 they value as important to their team?

You guys keep saying if the skins want RG3, we will get him. I argue if the Browns want RG3 AND the Skin's want RG3, the Browns will get him, therefor they are really driving this bus, they have more to offer than we do, plain and simple, and they have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation.

[tribeofjudah]

Just what I needed - ANOTHER thread to spray my rhetoric

It's TRUE - the Browns do have the edge but ...


as many have pointed out here in MANY OTHER threads about the same topic


The Redskins are more than willing to give up the picks that many consider way too much

The Browns are NOT willing to give up too much for RGIII

why does this keep getting discussed

The Browns are NOT giving up what it will take and the Redskins will


PLUS


Fisher is going to give the Redskins the last shot at making the deal work

RGIII is going to be in B&G


I'm STILL stiff for Griff

MAN CRUSH.....!!!

[Deadskins]

they (the Browns) have a greater need than we do in terms of pure desparation.

They also have Colt McCoy who they drafted in the first round just two years ago. They aren't as desperate at QB as we are.

[elprez19]

They actually drafted McCoy in the third round and i'm sure they would feel good about him as a back up as a third round pick.