I Hate Michael Vick

[Smithian]

http://www.examiner.com/pet-rescue-in-l ... id-to-dogs

For some reason I can have nothing but pure hate for someone who viciously tortured innocent dogs.

Kick some butt this Sunday, Redskins.

[spenser]

http://www.examiner.com/pet-rescue-in-los-angeles/michael-vick-released-time-to-remember-what-vick-actually-did-to-dogs

For some reason I can have nothing but pure hate for someone who viciously tortured innocent dogs.

Kick some butt this Sunday, Redskins.

Totally agree. What a total and utter piece of crap. I love how after a few good games last year and a new huge contract you can see the Diva coming back out in him too. What a turd.

[KazooSkinsFan]

For some reason I can have nothing but pure hate for someone who viciously tortured innocent dogs

It's called "moral clarity" and you are absolutely right

[MDSKINSFAN]

Me too. I don't buy the whole "changed man" thing either. Every now and then the punk shines through.

[ATX_Skins]

I give him the benefit of the doubt. He was convicted and served his time. I do not care for him, but that is because he is an Eagle.

Let's not forget what Stallworth did...

[SkinsJock]

I am a dog owner and hated what he did - Michael Vick, the man, is not playing this week

everyone's entitled to their opinions - Michael Vick is a changed man

I'm satisfied that Tony Dungy is convinced that he's a different person


Michael Vick the QB is a very different QB than he used to be - this guy can make plays from anywhere at any time

hopefully we do not give him many minutes on the field this week

[KazooSkinsFan]

everyone's entitled to their opinions - Michael Vick is a changed man

How do you know that?

What he did is so completely morally depraved I thought his being fixed was wayyyyy to easy. I think he's sorry he went to prison, sorry he lost millions of dollars, sorry to have had his name dragged through the press. But that he's sorry for what he did I see no evidence.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Treat people with the same level of level of forgiveness that you'd like to be show...

[KazooSkinsFan]

Treat people with the same level of level of forgiveness that you'd like to be show...

Forgiveness starts with being actually sorry for what you did and I don't expect that mistakes I made come without consequences.

Though a platitude fixes all that, right Chris?

[Hooligan]

I'm sure he's a changed man in that he's a little more humble after being forced to spend time behind bars. Other than that, I think that if he weren't arrested, he'd still be doing what he was doing.

I hope he blows out a knee, and I don't wish things like that on many people. He doesn't deserve a career where he gets stinking rich by playing a game.

[Chris Luva Luva]

I don't expect that mistakes I made come without consequences.

Nobody expects for someone to act in the way that I described, it's not normal because most people are entirely too selfish. It takes a level of selflessness that most people refuse to exhibit. It's a difficult thing to do but it's one of the best feelings in the world to give.

I've at times shown that trait and I've been extremely humbled and thankful to those who have shown it to me.

[markshark84]

I give him the benefit of the doubt. He was convicted and served his time. I do not care for him, but that is because he is an Eagle.

Let's not forget what Stallworth did...

Really??? You can't compare what Stallworth did to Vick. Totally different circumstances. Stallworth's was a one time thing and even admitted to drinking at the scene (totally dumb move, but honest). The dog fighting, on the other hand, occured multiple times over the course of multiple (some say close to 7) years. Vick's actions were premeditated in that he had time to contemplate what he was doing and the consequences of his actions -- and continued to do it. He killed and used the dogs lives as a form of entertainment and revenue with full knowledge of the outcome.

And honestly, the dog fighting isn't even the worst of it for Vick. Personally, I think that Vick (aka Ron Mexico) knowingly giving woman non-treatable STDs is just as bad. There are also the marijuana charges.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't expect that mistakes I made come without consequences.

Nobody expects for someone to act in the way that I described, it's not normal because most people are entirely too selfish. It takes a level of selflessness that most people refuse to exhibit. It's a difficult thing to do but it's one of the best feelings in the world to give.

I've at times shown that trait and I've been extremely humbled and thankful to those who have shown it to me.

There are different levels of doing things. He was systematically over a long period of time incredibly cruel to intelligent, living beings. I just personally find it hard to believe he got over complete moral depravity that quickly and easily. Have you done anything nearly to that degree? I don't want to do to him what he did to his dogs, but I have a hard time thinking that a mea culpa and moving on has solved anything in his character and I don't think he belongs in the NFL getting rich and not dealing with the enormously horrible things he did.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Have you done anything nearly to that degree?

That's totally subjective, someone I've hurt may tell you that I have... I understand where you're coming from. However, you see cases where a person can forgive the person that murdered a loved one. It's....unfathomable sometimes but it's a beautiful thing.

[ATX_Skins]

"There is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." - Hemingway

The reason for not hunting animals.

[emoses14]

I don't expect that mistakes I made come without consequences.

Nobody expects for someone to act in the way that I described, it's not normal because most people are entirely too selfish. It takes a level of selflessness that most people refuse to exhibit. It's a difficult thing to do but it's one of the best feelings in the world to give.

I've at times shown that trait and I've been extremely humbled and thankful to those who have shown it to me.

There are different levels of doing things. He was systematically over a long period of time incredibly cruel to intelligent, living beings. I just personally find it hard to believe he got over complete moral depravity that quickly and easily. Have you done anything nearly to that degree? I don't want to do to him what he did to his dogs, but I have a hard time thinking that a mea culpa and moving on has solved anything in his character and I don't think he belongs in the NFL getting rich and not dealing with the enormously horrible things he did.

Absolutely agree with your first sentence and his transgression was extreme. Also, is there a difference in your mind between Vick's "complete moral depravity" and the degree of moral depravity of an actual pre-meditated murderer or a serial murderer? In any event, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else (supporter or detractor) believes is a reasonable amount of time for contrition, reflection and self absolution.

And to be honest, Mike Vick doesn't need to convince the rest of the world that he's a changed man, he only needs to be honest with himself. If he has changed and is sorry and can look himself in the mirror and know it to be true, to hell with anyone else, moronic dog lovers, PETA members, and moron supporters who blindly follow him included.

Now, where I have a problem is with the highlighted sentence. What does earning a living have to do with his cruel treatment of dogs? Unless his career happens to be in pet grooming or running a kennel, they are completely unrelated. Since he's served his sentence and is in compliance with both his parole and bankruptcy plan, he has the exact same right to earn a living as anyone else. Given that Philly has chosen to hire and pay him, this normative determination that he doesn't "belong" in the NFL sounds petty, since very clearly he does belong.

Nevermind that you assume he's not, or is incapable of, simultaneously dealing with the enormously horrible things he did (note the lack of quotations, because I don't think there's any room to disagree with that, really) while collecting his paycheck, based on . . . what exactly? I've read and listened to folks write off his lobbying for stiffer penalties for those who spectate at dog fights and his anti-dog fighting work with the Humane Society (neither of which is a condition of his parole or is he getting paid for) and any other positive thing he's done or tried to do as solely a "PR" move; but I ask, precisely what is it he needs to do to pay his debt to public opinion, you know, other than the one he's already paid to society? So what IF he is only doing these things as a PR move? Hell that has to be evidence of dealing with his transgressions to some degree, right?

Or is this just simply the case of a human man, who bred, was entertained by fights to the death starring and killed, dogs, who will never be forgiven no matter what penalty he pays, acts of advocacy, contrition and charity he performs, or how much time passes? Is it really the case that his actions with BAd Newz Kennel preclude him from ever changing, making a living "playing a game", surviving one of the most brutal sports without "blowing out a knee," or whatever other pound of flesh "we" believe he ought to give "us"?

[emoses14]

Sorry, double post.

Thanks ATX for the heads up.

[ATX_Skins]

I absolutely agree with your first post but your second was rather extreme

[Irn-Bru]

The smugness the Eagles going into this season was unbearable. And while their pathetic losses have certainly humbled them, they haven't been humbled enough.

They are on their way, though. Just like the Cowboys — the media-proclaimed and self-proclaimed favorites to have the first ever home Super Bowl — had only one win at this time last year, and went to 1-7 before winning their next one. That's the level of embarrassment and shame the Eagles were risking, and asking for, by allowing and engaging in "dream team" talk.

Maybe they won't go to 1-7, but I really won't care so long as they are 1-5 a week from today. They deserve another heel in the neck and to be taken out of serious contention this year.

Please Skins, deliver!

[SkinsJock]

I want the eagles to lose more than I want the Redskins to win - I love the fact that the eagles franchise & fans are facing a massive crisis


sorry Kaz - Michael Vick is NOT the same person that he was - he's also a better QB than he was



we need to beat the eagles - the best way for that to happen is to limit Vick's time on the field

really feeling & expressing 'hate' for players is a waste of time - have at it

I say that I 'hate' the pukes but I really don't - I just don't like losing to the giants, the pukes & the eagles

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

I don't know Vick personally of course but the twisted mind that would enjoy the crap he took part in is a SICK sick individual. Itd take years of counseling if that. Changed man? How? By doing and saying what the lawyer he eventually paid tells him to? I can't hate the man certainly the crime- I do however not care for him and talk of his previous past time funtime disgusts me. On the field ya he is good, but as a person I wouldn't even try to get an autograph.
I happen to own a very expensive Pitbull (Razors edge Pitt crossed w American bulldog from over seas) and his actions stretch faaaaar beyond the lives of the dogs he didn't give two ishts about... Being a pitty owner I have fought the cliche stereotypical rap they get people like Vick further slander the breed and owners alike. I don't need to get in to how good of a dog mine is with kids other dogs cats etc etc I am a responsible owner and people like Vick make breeding if not illegal extremely tedious and expensive.
So ya I feel ya Chris forgiving is extremely powerful- he doesn't have to answer to me so I don't need to give him my forgiveness.. Can't say he worth my hate but I will say I feel bad for a guy with such gifts and total lack of morality integrity humanity etc etc etc. I don't support vick and although I myself wouldn't feed him to a pack of wolves I also won't bat a lash at him if he gets his knee Joe Theismanned

[KazooSkinsFan]

sorry Kaz - Michael Vick is NOT the same person that he was

You know because sorry he's not?

[KazooSkinsFan]

is there a difference in your mind between Vick's "complete moral depravity" and the degree of moral depravity of an actual pre-meditated murderer or a serial murderer?

Those are all serious crimes, but I don't understand the relevance of ranking them

In any event, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else (supporter or detractor) believes is a reasonable amount of time for contrition, reflection and self absolution

Actually it makes all the difference what I think since what I said was my opinion

Now, where I have a problem is with the highlighted sentence. What does earning a living have to do with his cruel treatment of dogs?

My sentence doesn't say that, so I don't understand the relevance of the question

Unless his career happens to be in pet grooming or running a kennel, they are completely unrelated

This completely misses the point, but the NFL is an entertainment business. The people involved absolutely make all the difference.

As for the rest of your rant, wow, Government said the punishment fit the crime, who am I to question government? The Eagles hired him, who am I to have an opinion about that? Got it,

[SkinsJock]

sorry Kaz - Michael Vick is NOT the same person that he was

You know because sorry he's not?

You may or may not remember how mad I was at what Vick did - I refused to hear any attempts to downplay his atrocities

Vick is playing in the NFL because Goodell and Dungy are satisfied that he is not the same person - that's not excusing anything but I'm ok with it

I have no problem with people not forgiving him for what he did

I do not like Vick but he's a VERY dangerous QB

thankfully, we're getting him at a time that the players around him are not playing well together AT ALL

HOPEFULLY our offense does not give their offense much time on the field

The Redskins defense will be OK - my concern is with Grossman and Kyle's play calling - run the ball & take time off the clock

[emoses14]

is there a difference in your mind between Vick's "complete moral depravity" and the degree of moral depravity of an actual pre-meditated murderer or a serial murderer?

Those are all serious crimes, but I don't understand the relevance of ranking them

Its not an issue of ranking them. The relevance has to do with your absolute statement that he was completely morally depraved. I am trying to figure out what your degree of differentiation is, because I don't view what he did as being COMPLETELY morally depraved. Or put another way, I don't view Michael Vick and a murderer or a serial murderer as the same, and I would be far more inclined to refer to the latter 2 as "completely morally depraved". His attrocious actions do not mean he has no morality at all. So, a simple yes or no, perhaps with a little explanation if you felt so inclined, to the question would have told me whether you actually believed the absoluteness of your statement, or if upon reflection, you didn't mean it to that degree.

In any event, it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else (supporter or detractor) believes is a reasonable amount of time for contrition, reflection and self absolution

Actually it makes all the difference what I think since what I said was my opinion

Ok, fine. Don't engage the larger point in the following paragraph that true forgiveness or absolution comes from within, regardless of what anyone's opinion is. Instead focus on the simple, though absolutely true point, that yes, what you think does matter to your opinion. I'll do it a different way. Kaz, do you think that the real measure of contrition and the ability to overcome moral shortcomings is best determined by what those of us without any personal interaction with the man think or what is actually in that man's heart?

Now, where I have a problem is with the highlighted sentence. What does earning a living have to do with his cruel treatment of dogs?

My sentence doesn't say that, so I don't understand the relevance of the question

Yes it does. You say he doesn't belong in the NFL getting rich. His profession is Football, and the NFL is where the best are. Unless I misread the tone of your sentence, I'm fairly sure you didn't mean he does belong in the NFL, but not getting rich. Nor do I think you meant that he ought to be in the CFL, either getting rich or not getting rich. If you did, then my bad; please disregard that paragraph and skip to the next one.

Unless his career happens to be in pet grooming or running a kennel, they are completely unrelated

This completely misses the point, but the NFL is an entertainment business. The people involved absolutely make all the difference.

Kaz, the point behind my two examples was that in those business the people involved, and more to the point the customers, make a difference when dealing with an absolute abuser of dogs . There's a direct 1:1 relationship. So, in that instance, I think your point (the one I didn't miss)that he doesn't belong in his chosen profession getting rich would be right on. In the entertainment business of the NFL, that isn't the case. There the job requirements are many but 2 main ones, as to whether someone ought to be there, are, production on the field and contribution or detraction from the bottom line . There is also the chaser of the morality clause, which is presumably based on a reasonable person standard of some sort. The kind of reasonable person standard that allows for transgression, punishment, redemption and reinstatement. Vick couldn't survive in his profession if he wasn't any good, didn't put butts in the seats or was so "completely morally depraved" that the NFL couldn't in good conscience readmit him. Its not that your opinion is wrong just because of the NFL or Eagles' policy, its that since they are operating with a lot more information on the man than you and I are, their determination has got to carry at least a modicum more weight than ours.

As for the rest of your rant, wow, Government said the punishment fit the crime, who am I to question government? The Eagles hired him, who am I to have an opinion about that? Got it,

I never said that because the government and a jury of his peers sentenced and convicted him, respectively, you should simply accept that. Nor did I even imply that, so, no, you didn't get it. Interesting that you pulled that out of my "rant". But that straw man doesn't exist in anything I said. I asked a number of questions, some sarcastically, that essentially boil down to "What more do you believe he owes, recognizing that he has already paid a price mandated by the only entity stepping up with an idea of what punishment and retribution ought to look like, or must do to satisfy popular public opinion? Or is there nothing he can do?" Since you opened this door re: government, my response is, rather than the typical arms crossed, foot stomping, contrarian position SIMPLY BECAUSE the government was involved in the punishment he's paid, how about exercising that opinion of yours to answer the question of what more you'd like to see from the man. Easy to naysay, harder to problem solve.