Realistic expectations thread

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:45 am

I just don't buy the -gaga parade- that is going on...Shanahan and Allen are a Fantastic team to right the ship but will they get the full control promised and WILL THEY BE AROUND long enough to implement it.

Fans are Gaga that Snyder wasn't at the Podium..Great ..he was sitting in the first Row...WOW

Shanahan is inheriting a drastically inferior situation to Gibbs...This team has more holes and bad contracts than I can count. THIS IS GONNA TAKE TIME FELLAS ..as Fans can we bare it? Will Snyder as an owner Bare it?
8-8 7-9 is very real next year...that's nothing to be excited about

To me were the best Fans in the world . I've seen us hurt so much from DS. Let's keep the helium to a minimium so in case this pops the burst won't be heard in Amsterdam.

Shanny needs to spend the FULL 5 years for this Franchise to change its colors permanently . This not about this off season Etc. Its a about long term philosphical change for DS and Skins....Its way to early to tell if it will happens. Marty Failed Gibbs was somewhat successfull but then DS crushed it.

Will Shanny be succesful ? And even if he is succesfull once he leaves does DS implode it?

So many variables not enough trust on my part. Snyder hasn't earned it.

I'm a happy man today for my Skins ...it a step in the right direction but a lot has to change for this Franchise to be year in year out Contender.

We have the right front office team now but we will never have the right owner. For that I stay realistic and tempered. ..

Hail!

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:53 am

I hear ay...but you gotta give Danny credit..only he could pull a rabbit out of he hat like this and get Skins fan fired up after a season like this. That being said I think the mood of the average fan is now ...show us. You're he has to give him time and the fact that he gave him a 5 year 35 mil suggests he will...because while I know he had a ton of money I can't se him letting Shanahan go before at least 4 years...He all in on this one if Shanahan doesn't get it done than what??

cleg · Post by **cleg** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:55 am

I agree with the original post but I cannot help but be excited. I have never bought into the idea that a person cannot change - that because in 2001 (almost a decade ago) a mid-30's Danny fired Marty that he will absolutely do the same thing now. I don't buy into the statments that the Redskins will never win with Danny as the owner. Do you think Yankee fans said that in the 1980s about Steinbrenner?

I'm all in. Yes, I could handle 8-8, 7-9 next year as well.

roybus14 · Post by **roybus14** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:00 am

Everyone is excited and should be but also cautious because of the past 10+ years.

I think that Shanahan can 'right' the ship but it's going to take Snyder just signing checks and him (Shanahan) and Bruce to make the right decisions at all levels.

If I were Shanahan I'd do this:

1. Talk with the current coaches to get a feel for what's going on and the players.

2. Then gather a staff that is on the same page as me. A staff that not only can coach but are stickler's for discipline. This current roster needs that beyond bad.

3. Once I gather that staff, I'd start my evaluation process of this current roster. Studying film, talking to the players, etc.

4. Once the eval of players is done, begin to process of weeding out those who are not going to fit in.

5. Leave the cap stuff for Bruce to worry about and begin using my scouts and collaborating with Bruce on finding replacements for the 'weeded' out players; begin looking at our "real" needs and start preparing for the draft and free agency.

6. Call Dan Snyder once a week to update him as to what is going on and get him to cut a check if necessary.

7. After the draft, start the real work of getting ready for training camp in Carlye, Pa. and prepping for the upcoming season...

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:01 am

cleg wrote:I agree with the original post but I cannot help but be excited. I have never bought into the idea that a person cannot change - that because in 2001 (almost a decade ago) a mid-30's Danny fired Marty that he will absolutely do the same thing now. I don't buy into the statments that the Redskins will never win with Danny as the owner. Do you think Yankee fans said that in the 1980s about Steinbrenner?

I'm all in. Yes, I could handle 8-8, 7-9 next year as well.

I have always maintained that he'd win...what I didn't want was for him to do it HIS way...I'm so hoping Shanahan and Bruce get it done so it will show him that this is the way to do it...not let the ownwer for TTiT

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:15 am

DS did great with Allen and Shanny Hirings and obviously with the Cerrato firing agreed.

But we the fans kinda forced his hand or this could have gotten Super Ugly. So did he change or did he make a good Business/Marketing decision based on the enviroment his franchise was mired in?

Its not like Snyder had an ephinany here. He basically had no choice but make some heavy changes to get fan support back.

My hope is Bruce Allen stays for 10 years and becomes the football patriach of this Franchise. Shanny is a hired gun/Mercenary if u will..4-5 years TOPS and he's gone..and since it will take at least 2 for us to even DREAM about SB championships..the competitive window is short

Bruce Allen is the key because once Shanahan leaves the continuity part WILL BE CRUCIAL for the competitive Longevity of this Franchise

I know I'm talking about 5 years from now ..but at the end of the day ---THIS IS WHAT WE ALL WANT and post about....year in year out competiveness.

To me Bruce Allen is the key to that equation..he will be the Crucial bridge from Shanny to next coach.....if DS doesn't maintain that

Its business as usual

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:18 am

I disagree that there is a GAGA parade going on - I think there are many of us that want to think things might be different here but I would characterize the feelings as more cautiously optimistic, for the most part

I am very concerned about Snyder but we are a lot better off right now with these 2 guys here and I think they will get a chance at making things better here - I agree that Snyder is a snake and cannot be trusted but I do not think that these 2 guys would have come here without assurances that they would get a chance at making things right - Snyder will give them a chance but he will be right back in charge if it does not work out, that's for sure

I do not think that a 7-9 or 8-8 record are as important in this first year as having a group of players on the field that are playing together as a team - we started out 6-2 in 2007 and while some thought that we were on the right track and that Campbell was coming along great as a QB I personally felt that we should have been 4-4 at best (we were not executing or as dominant as the record indicated, in my opinion) and not only that, it seemed to this stupid Aussie, that Campbell was incredibly slow in reading defenses and executing plays - he's not a very good QB

we are in desparate straits as far as having players and coaches both working together and playing as a team - it is going to take a while for us to acquire an offensive line that can play effectively against the teams in the NFC East, this is the hardest thing to do in the NFL - our defense will be better off with coaches and players on the same page but it is going to take at least 1 year and maybe as many as 3 for us to have the really good QB and offensive line that we need here

I am not as worried about the record this first season - I just want to see some accountability and the beginings of this franchise putting a competitive product on the field each week - I want to see this franchise begin to win the games that we should win and be competitive in every game we play - I'm tired of winning ONLY because the other team played badly, I want a team that wins games because they play the game better than the other team

I am going to wait and see what happens as far as Snyder's meddling is concerned

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:31 am

btw - Cerrato resigned - let's face facts. A lot of things have happened here that Snyder has been working on - with his "yes man" buddy, Cerrato's help.
I think these 2 have been looking at how to manage and massage the situation with this franchise in the best way possible for months

I think that Shanahan was contacted a while ago and most likely said no matter who you get as a HC bring in Bruce Allen as GM - he did not suddenly come in to be the GM here

Snyder is still a snake but I'm cautiously optimistic that these guys will get things on track here

Redskinsfansince81 · Post by **Redskinsfansince81** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:38 am

What are you talking about? We will win the super bowl next year
or Shanahan is out! lol just kidding of course.

I think 8-8 / 7-9 would be a good start. Do we get to play the Lions,
Rams, and Browns next year?

BeeGee · Post by **BeeGee** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:47 am

The defense was there this year. Some tweaking on the offense and some better luck health-wise, and the Skins could be looking at a 10-win team (easily) next year. Of course, I hope I'm absolutely wrong but I see an immediate turn-around under Shanahan before I see something more lengthy.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:57 am

SkinsJock wrote:I disagree that there is a GAGA parade going on - I think there are many of us that want to think things might be different here but I would characterize the feelings as more cautiously optimistic, for the most part.

"For the most part" is the key point.

Many of us are cautiously optimistic but many others will take the snake oil FOREVER. We need to watch carefully to detect interference and meddling by the egomaniac who owns this team.

SKINFAN · Post by **SKINFAN** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:57 am

If we only win 6 games next year, let it be against the NFC east teams. I'd be very happy with that.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:02 am

People honestly think that the fans 'forced Danny's hand? Really? I'm sure that he caught wind of the unhappiness of the fans, but we forced his hand is a little presumptuous.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:03 am

for some reason, RiC wrote:

Many of us are cautiously optimistic but many others will take the snake oil FOREVER. We need to watch carefully to detect interference and meddling by the egomaniac who owns this team.

YEAH BABY! 19-0!!! SNYDER ROCKS!!! WHOOOOOOOO!!!!!

:rock:

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:10 am

A long range vision of this team (as long as things go well in the short term), would be Mike Shannahan stepping down as coach in 4-5 years, and Kyle Shannahan taking over. Mike would stay on a VP of football ops with Allen as GM. Kyle would then take over the reigns as a fairly young head coach, and we ride on like that for another 10 years. That's what I'm seeing here. Shanny is grooming his son to be the next football coach of the Washington Redskins. No way he goes anywhere else...the money will not match what Snyder will pay for him to stay, and his dad is his boss.

With that said, and with a cakewake schedule, we're 8-8 or 9-7 next year. We have the D to keep us in games, and the 8 or so games we lost by 6 points or less just needed better coaching to get over the hump.

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:13 am

Presumptous? Not really. Attendance down concessions down. Bad publicity way UP! ...he's an owner of a Business...Fan support is VITAL..this isn't rocket science

And based upon reactions from Fans , explayers and National news outlets things were getting ugly..way ugly...did u see the last 6 minutes of the Giant game @ FED EX....a SEA OF BLUE!!! All Giant fans in the stands remained...Message sent LOUD AND CLEAR!

Snyder had better chance of selling us a bag of magic peanuts that cure cancer than selling us Vinny Cerrato Jim Zorn or any other no named coach

This man made his money in Marketing...he's very adepth at it. He knew he needed to show change was coming and put a a coach and GM with Great resumee's in front of us
GM- Check. HOF Coach-- Check.
Keep himself off the podium-----Check

He's listening....it doesn't mean he's changing

Just yet anyway

crazyhorse1 · Post by **crazyhorse1** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:22 am

BeeGee wrote:The defense was there this year. Some tweaking on the offense and some better luck health-wise, and the Skins could be looking at a 10-win team (easily) next year. Of course, I hope I'm absolutely wrong but I see an immediate turn-around under Shanahan before I see something more lengthy.

I see an immediate turn around if we grab Okung at 4, the best O lineman available at round 2, go after O linemen in lower rounds, and then pick up outstanding FA's who are O lineman. If Okung is available (and he probably will be) and passed up for a QB, I predict disaster. It will mean more of the same. We need a linebacker (an FA) to put Orakpo's hand on the ground and a stud beside Haynesworth (an Fa), but, otherwise, must shore up the OL to the exclusion of other things.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:48 am

VetSkinsFan wrote:People honestly think that the fans 'forced Danny's hand? Really? I'm sure that he caught wind of the unhappiness of the fans, but we forced his hand is a little presumptuous.

I agree with you the voices of fans like you and me, and a lot of many other people, do not mean a thing to him.

No, the fans did not force him to do anything. The loss of revenue, the potential higher loss of revenue this year and the increased failing attendance to games did.

Minority owners (and one or two others whom shall remain unnamed here) whom he respects whispered a few words of much needed wisdom in his ear too. So, it was a combination of factors.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:57 am

Redskin in Canada wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:People honestly think that the fans 'forced Danny's hand? Really? I'm sure that he caught wind of the unhappiness of the fans, but we forced his hand is a little presumptuous.

I agree with you the voices of fans like you and me, and a lot of many other people, do not mean a thing to him.

No, the fans did not force him to do anything. The loss of revenue, the potential higher loss of revenue this year and the increased failing attendance to games did.

Minority owners (and one or two others whom shall remain unnamed here) whom he respects whispered a few words of much needed wisdom in his ear too. So, it was a combination of factors.

I'm not suggesting we had no influence whatsoever, but to say we forced his hand is silly IMO. I also don't think that loss of revenue for concessions was that significant in the big scheme of things. Yeah, the stadium wasn't packed full of 92k Redskins fans, but there were still 50k or 60k plus even at the worst point, and those people were still eating and drinking. They were at least when i was at the Rams game.

MEZZSKIN · Post by **MEZZSKIN** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:19 pm

Every aspect of Business is measured and without A DOUBT DS had double digit perecentage losses in BOTH attendance and Concessions....Those are bad numbers in the business world

Nevermind all the Big Money Redskin dinner and functions in the off season which have fell short of whatever expectations ..

I guarantee U the REDSKIN SHOP on Redskins.com was WAY DOWN on its projected numbers ...etc etc..I can go on and on

When I say the Fans forced his hand I mean in his Pocket ...not on fansites and Blogs

He had absolutely no choice but to make this kind a change NONE ZERO...

He had to present to the Fanbase a HUGE change with some heavy hands at the wheels...it was a must from a Business and Marketing perpestive...

Are season ticket holders more inclined to renew their tickets Today as opposed to two weeks ago?

There's ur answer

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:28 pm

What is the number 1 goal of any sports franchise???
To sell tickets...if you don't think Dan Snyder did take notice of the fans voice this year you're blind. We had VP's at our tailgate asking us how our gameday experience was going?? You will never convince me the whole tix scandal was DS making sure the SKins didn't get blackout...I can't ever remember (I 'm not old enough) a time the Skins were less relevant then they are now... DS knew and know he was facing blackouts next year which is unheard of in D.C. that is a direct result of the fans.

VetSkinsFan · Post by **VetSkinsFan** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:48 pm

DEHog wrote:What is the number 1 goal of any sports franchise???
To sell tickets...if you don't think Dan Snyder did take notice of the fans voice this year you're blind. We had VP's at our tailgate asking us how our gameday experience was going?? You will never convince me the whole tix scandal was DS making sure the SKins didn't get blackout...I can't ever remember (I 'm not old enough) a time the Skins were less relevant then they are now... DS knew and know he was facing blackouts next year which is unheard of in D.C. that is a direct result of the fans.

DEHog
Being a direct result and forcing his hand are two different levels of the same result. I readily admitted that there was most likely an influence, just not the extreme that is said above.

And Mr MEZZ, is there any credible facts here that you're spouting out or are you just on a soapbox? I'd be interested to see the actual numbers that take in to account the recession we've recently experienced as well.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:52 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
DEHog wrote:What is the number 1 goal of any sports franchise???
To sell tickets...if you don't think Dan Snyder did take notice of the fans voice this year you're blind. We had VP's at our tailgate asking us how our gameday experience was going?? You will never convince me the whole tix scandal was DS making sure the SKins didn't get blackout...I can't ever remember (I 'm not old enough) a time the Skins were less relevant then they are now... DS knew and know he was facing blackouts next year which is unheard of in D.C. that is a direct result of the fans.

DEHog
Being a direct result and forcing his hand are two different levels of the same result. I readily admitted that there was most likely an influence, just not the extreme that is said above.

And Mr MEZZ, is there any credible facts here that you're spouting out or are you just on a soapbox? I'd be interested to see the actual numbers that take in to account the recession we've recently experienced as well.

I see your point Vet but to Mezz' point I know it can never be proven but everything that the fans wanted has happened...right down to Snyder not taking part in the PC are you calling that a coincidence??

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:53 pm

VetSkinsFan wrote:
DEHog wrote:What is the number 1 goal of any sports franchise???
To sell tickets...if you don't think Dan Snyder did take notice of the fans voice this year you're blind. We had VP's at our tailgate asking us how our gameday experience was going?? You will never convince me the whole tix scandal was DS making sure the SKins didn't get blackout...I can't ever remember (I 'm not old enough) a time the Skins were less relevant then they are now... DS knew and know he was facing blackouts next year which is unheard of in D.C. that is a direct result of the fans.

DEHog
Being a direct result and forcing his hand are two different levels of the same result. I readily admitted that there was most likely an influence, just not the extreme that is said above.

And Mr MEZZ, is there any credible facts here that you're spouting out or are you just on a soapbox? I'd be interested to see the actual numbers that take in to account the recession we've recently experienced as well.

I see your point Vet but to Mezz' point I know it can never be proven but everything that the fans wanted has happened...right down to Snyder not taking part in the PC are you calling that a coincidence??

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:23 pm

I really don't think Snyder has been AS involved as he was back in '99-'00 as far as player decisions are concerned. I still believe that Gibbs helped get him to take a more back-seat approach and we've seen evidence of that reported in the media.

When he brought up Vick (at the beginning of the pre-season) is a classic example where it was reported that he (Snyder) brought it up, and his staff (Cerrato and Zorn) shot it down.

News flash, he is always going to be involved at some level, no matter who the coach is. That's just smart business. You get what you INSpect not what you EXpect.

Snyder's best attribute was both hailed by Gibbs and mentioned by Shanahan yesterday. If Allen and Shanahan say they want someone, Dan Snyder will not tell them "no" he will break his back to get them. It didn't always pan out for us during Gibbs 2.0 (Archuletta and Lloyd) but it's that kind of support that GM's and Coaches crave.

My point is, and has been, that Snyder's "meddlesome" behavior is widely exaggerated based off of moves he made nearly 10 years ago. It's media and fans that continue to perpetuate his meddling nature as they feel more comfortable blaming him for failures than coaches and players whom they tend to like more.