Immigration!

[HEROHAMO]

First off I realize this is a controversial subject. However, I do believe that immigration
policys must be reformed. I just offer my opinion. This is in no way a be all end all solution. I just offer a few ideas on how I think we can start to chip away at the current
problems.
I love this Country and all the different kinds of races, foods, women etc...



The problem how I see it.

A growing population and not enough jobs to support all these people. There are more people
then jobs! The U.S.A cannot afford to take in any more people. Right now we simply cannot
afford it. We have illegal immigrants who cross the border every day. We also have Visa over stayers, students who come here then quit school and get a job.

When an illegal immigrant takes a job that a citizen could have had? When we already have a
job shortage? It will cause many citizens to turn to government assistance. It takes a number of taxpayers to pay for one welfare recipient. So even though the illegal immigrant
is consuming goods, paying taxes it does not make up the difference taxpayers are paying for the one citizen on government assistance. All the while the Government has a growing deficit, a border in which illegals continue to cross and a job market that is growing slower then the growing population! Yikes!


How do we solve this problem?

My view on how we can start.


Ok, many sources report about twenty million illegal immigrants throughout the United States.
We first have to secure the borders.We have to minimize the growing number as much as possible.

So I like the idea of a Wall. I want a Massive series of walls for the Northern Border and Southern Border. These Walls will run all across the Northern Border and Southern Border.

Example, wall A of the Southern Border will stand 50 ft, 10ft in width, 1,969 miles in length.
wall B of the Southern Border will be parallel to wall A built a Mile apart from each other with the same dimensions. In between wall A and B shall be a 100 foot deep man made river. EVery 100 miles of what I call the great Wall of America there will be a Dam. On top of the walls there will also be solar panels. These dams and solar panels can provide irrigation to
new crops of farmland, provide electricity. New jobs for Dam maintenance.

This massive project will create thousands maybe millions of jobs. It will also cost Billions. This project would be contracted out to many companies or maybe a few large companies.

How do we pay for it?

my version of an immigration bill. I.I. stands for illegal immigrant.

The Great Wall of America Bill by HeroHamo

This Bill is to address the issue of illegal immigration in the United States.This Bill shall be in effect 1/31/10--12/31/15

1.Any I.I. who has committed a felony in the United States shall be deported.
2.A probationary naturalization period of five years shall be provided for an I.I. who can
show five years of either work history or schooling in the United States.
3. IF at any time during the probationary period a felony is committed the I.I. shall be deported immidiatley never to return.
4.The I.I. will pay 5 percent extra in income taxes throughout the probationary period.
5.If the I.I. becomes a citizen he or she shall still pay an extra 5 percent in income taxes for ten years thereafter citizenship.
6.Any social security withholdings earned by the I.I. before this bill comes into law will go into the great wall of America fund to help pay for the wall.
7. During the period of this Bill any I.I. who can show proof of five years of work history or schooling shall be given a green card.
8.Any Company or Corporation who has employed an I.I. previously must now make a charitble contribution to the Great Wall of America Fund.
9. Any I.I. going through the probationary naturalization period shall receive proper work permit, social security card and green card.
10.Any I.I. who wishes to start the probationary period shall pay a fee of 500 dollars to begin with.
11.Any social security withholding's earned by the I.I. before this bill may also go towards
HeroHamos Massive Post Office Style Health care bill.






Ok that is my bill. Have at it. Think I am crazy? Maybe, Maybe not? See if you guys can add to it or make your own bill. LOL! I got to admit this was pretty fun.

[Bob 0119]

First off I realize this is a controversial subject. However, I do believe that immigration
policys must be reformed. I just offer my opinion. This is in no way a be all end all solution. I just offer a few ideas on how I think we can start to chip away at the current
problems.
I love this Country and all the different kinds of races, foods, women etc...



The problem how I see it.

A growing population and not enough jobs to support all these people. There are more people
then jobs! The U.S.A cannot afford to take in any more people. Right now we simply cannot
afford it. We have illegal immigrants who cross the border every day. We also have Visa over stayers, students who come here then quit school and get a job.

When an illegal immigrant takes a job that a citizen could have had? When we already have a
job shortage? It will cause many citizens to turn to government assistance. It takes a number of taxpayers to pay for one welfare recipient. So even though the illegal immigrant
is consuming goods, paying taxes it does not make up the difference taxpayers are paying for the one citizen on government assistance. All the while the Government has a growing deficit, a border in which illegals continue to cross and a job market that is growing slower then the growing population! Yikes!


How do we solve this problem?

My view on how we can start.


Ok, many sources report about twenty million illegal immigrants throughout the United States.
We first have to secure the borders.We have to minimize the growing number as much as possible.

So I like the idea of a Wall. I want a Massive series of walls for the Northern Border and Southern Border. These Walls will run all across the Northern Border and Southern Border.

Example, wall A of the Southern Border will stand 50 ft, 10ft in width, 1,969 miles in length.
wall B of the Southern Border will be parallel to wall A built a Mile apart from each other with the same dimensions. In between wall A and B shall be a 100 foot deep man made river. EVery 100 miles of what I call the great Wall of America there will be a Dam. On top of the walls there will also be solar panels. These dams and solar panels can provide irrigation to
new crops of farmland, provide electricity. New jobs for Dam maintenance.

This massive project will create thousands maybe millions of jobs. It will also cost Billions. This project would be contracted out to many companies or maybe a few large companies.

How do we pay for it?

my version of an immigration bill. I.I. stands for illegal immigrant.

The Great Wall of America Bill by HeroHamo

This Bill is to address the issue of illegal immigration in the United States.This Bill shall be in effect 1/31/10--12/31/15

1.Any I.I. who has committed a felony in the United States shall be deported.
2.A probationary naturalization period of five years shall be provided for an I.I. who can
show five years of either work history or schooling in the United States.
3. IF at any time during the probationary period a felony is committed the I.I. shall be deported immidiatley never to return.
4.The I.I. will pay 5 percent extra in income taxes throughout the probationary period.
5.If the I.I. becomes a citizen he or she shall still pay an extra 5 percent in income taxes for ten years thereafter citizenship.
6.Any social security withholdings earned by the I.I. before this bill comes into law will go into the great wall of America fund to help pay for the wall.
7. During the period of this Bill any I.I. who can show proof of five years of work history or schooling shall be given a green card.
8.Any Company or Corporation who has employed an I.I. previously must now make a charitble contribution to the Great Wall of America Fund.
9. Any I.I. going through the probationary naturalization period shall receive proper work permit, social security card and green card.
10.Any I.I. who wishes to start the probationary period shall pay a fee of 500 dollars to begin with.
11.Any social security withholding's earned by the I.I. before this bill may also go towards
HeroHamos Massive Post Office Style Health care bill.






Ok that is my bill. Have at it. Think I am crazy? Maybe, Maybe not? See if you guys can add to it or make your own bill. LOL! I got to admit this was pretty fun.

A wall won't fix the problem. Most illegals come here legally, but as you said, overstay their visa's.

The problem is the federal govt doesn't have enough people to track down and escort these people back out of the country once they are here.

Prince William County in Northern VA ruffled a bunch of feathers when they enacted legislation that Police officers would be checking citizenship status on any arrest or any traffic stop where there was probable cause.

The officers would then report any illegal immigrants to the ICE.

Prince William County was roundly condemmed by both the hispanic community, and each of the surrounding jurisdictions (Fairfax, Arlington, and Alexandria specifically).

There was a time before the law was enacted, you would see large crowds of hispanic males hanging around beside 7-11, and at the hardware stores.

Since then, the numbers have dropped significantly.

The overcrowding in public schools, and at the hospital ER's also dropped dramatically.

Illegal street vendor and taxicab operations have all but disappeared and the unemployment rate in Prince William County is significantly lower than it is in the surrounding jurisdictions.

...but...and you knew there was going to be one...


Fairfax County is finding itself under seige. Public School enrollment has nearly doubled and all of their social programs are seeing dramatic increases in enrollment (not like they weren't already hurting for money).

They have seen a sharp increase in the immigrant population, and are increasing their criticism of Prince William County.

The Fed can't force a state of local jusrisdiction to enact laws in regards to illegal immigrants, but the state and local jurisdiction CAN take that responsibility on themselves.

If they would...Prince William County is living proof that you CAN fix many of the problems with illegal immigration with the existing infastructure.

[VetSkinsFan]

Part of PW's softening stance was financial. ICE, who agreed to pick up the detainnees within 72 hours, took more than 30 days, passing the buck to PW county.

[Skinsfan55]

A friend of mine married a Moldovan girl that he met in college. They were just dating at the time, and after the government spent loads of money on her education (and she became a very good consultant for companies) her visa expired and they would not renew it. What the hell sense does that make?

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders. I am good at my job, and I'm not afraid of any competition.

I know, I know, those darn "illegals" are taking all our prized fruit picking jobs from "real" Americans... but the fact is, if someone else is willing to work harder than you and make greater sacrifices for their families then they just flat out deserve the job more... the only problem is when business owners hire immigrants for pennies a day, they should be forced to pay everyone the same wages.

[VetSkinsFan]

A friend of mine married a Moldovan girl that he met in college. They were just dating at the time, and after the government spent loads of money on her education (and she became a very good consultant for companies) her visa expired and they would not renew it. What the hell sense does that make?

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders. I am good at my job, and I'm not afraid of any competition.

I know, I know, those darn "illegals" are taking all our prized fruit picking jobs from "real" Americans... but the fact is, if someone else is willing to work harder than you and make greater sacrifices for their families then they just flat out deserve the job more... the only problem is when business owners hire immigrants for pennies a day, they should be forced to pay everyone the same wages.

If you have no problems with someone disregarding our laws from their initial existance in this country, then there's nothing to talk about. Their first statement, is "I don't care about your laws, I'm going to abide only whne it's convenient for me!" Yup, that's EXACTLY what kind of immigration I want here...b/c they'll shape up once they're here...

[langleyparkjoe]

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders.

Open borders?? No sir, no way

[CanesSkins26]

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders

So you have no problem with overcrowding in schools and hospitals? You have no problem with some teachers having to slow down their teaching of the course materials because they have non-English speakers in the class and need to go at a slower pace for them? You have no problem with the security concerns associated with the holes in our borders (i.e. drug trafficking, human trafficking, potential terrorists being able to sneak into the country)?

[Skinsfan55]

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders

So you have no problem with overcrowding in schools and hospitals? You have no problem with some teachers having to slow down their teaching of the course materials because they have non-English speakers in the class and need to go at a slower pace for them? You have no problem with the security concerns associated with the holes in our borders (i.e. drug trafficking, human trafficking, potential terrorists being able to sneak into the country)?

I am only concerned with things that actually happen, not a bunch of fearmongering nonsense.

[Countertrey]

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders

So you have no problem with overcrowding in schools and hospitals? You have no problem with some teachers having to slow down their teaching of the course materials because they have non-English speakers in the class and need to go at a slower pace for them? You have no problem with the security concerns associated with the holes in our borders (i.e. drug trafficking, human trafficking, potential terrorists being able to sneak into the country)?

I am only concerned with things that actually happen, not a bunch of fearmongering nonsense.

The only way you could continue to believe that those things are not "actually" happening would be living with your eyes covered and your fingers in your ears, going NYAAAAA, NYAAAAAA.

[CanesSkins26]

Anyway, I don't see any problem at all with illegal immigration, we should pretty much have open boarders

So you have no problem with overcrowding in schools and hospitals? You have no problem with some teachers having to slow down their teaching of the course materials because they have non-English speakers in the class and need to go at a slower pace for them? You have no problem with the security concerns associated with the holes in our borders (i.e. drug trafficking, human trafficking, potential terrorists being able to sneak into the country)?

I am only concerned with things that actually happen, not a bunch of fearmongering nonsense.

My ex-girlfriend is a public school teacher in Fairfax County. The education-related problems are very real and I've heard about them firsthand from her and other teachers. You must truly have your head buried in the sand if you think that none of the problems that I mentioned are going on.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I am only concerned with things that actually happen, not a bunch of fearmongering nonsense.

You mean like the World Trade Center being taken down by illegal aliens? Like our already over-crowed jails being full of illegal aliens? Illegal aliens commit a huge portion of our murders and rapes, you mean that sort of thing that actually happens? Do you mean their dragging down our already financially drowning infrastructure by getting welfare and food stamps, going to emergency rooms without insurance and getting in state tuition in our schools? You mean like those things that are actually happening?

[Bob 0119]

The people who come here and stay here legally go through a difficult and often expensive process to be here.

They are proud to be here, and there is no better day than the day they are granted full citizenship. I work at a cab company, and I see it all the time.

They earn their citizenship, and while many of us were born with it, I think we tend to take it for granted.

Many of my drivers are from India and Pakistan.

They bust their humps (no pun intended) to get here and stay here legally, and when they do, there is no prouder man than the guy who was just granted full citizenship status.

Those who sneak in here, or try and beat the system once they are here are only cheating those guys.

What do they care about this Country? Where do their loyalties lay? As far as I'm concerned, if you went through all of the headache to get here, spent all of the money on attorneys and classes to take the citizenship tests, than you have earned your citizenship here, and my respect.

You respect things more when you've earned them. Sure you could go down to the hobby store and purchase yourself a trophy. You can proudly display it on your mantle, but if you haven't earned it, it is meaningless to you.

If someone presents you with a trophy in recognition of your hard work and excellence, then you have something you can be proud of. You will take care of it, and wouldn't risk anything happening to it. You cherish it.

IMO, citizenship is much the same way.

[CanesSkins26]

The people who come here and stay here legally go through a difficult and often expensive process to be here.

They are proud to be here, and there is no better day than the day they are granted full citizenship. I work at a cab company, and I see it all the time.

They earn their citizenship, and while many of us were born with it, I think we tend to take it for granted.

Many of my drivers are from India and Pakistan.

They bust their humps (no pun intended) to get here and stay here legally, and when they do, there is no prouder man than the guy who was just granted full citizenship status.

Those who sneak in here, or try and beat the system once they are here are only cheating those guys.

What do they care about this Country? Where do their loyalties lay? As far as I'm concerned, if you went through all of the headache to get here, spent all of the money on attorneys and classes to take the citizenship tests, than you have earned your citizenship here, and my respect.

You respect things more when you've earned them. Sure you could go down to the hobby store and purchase yourself a trophy. You can proudly display it on your mantle, but if you haven't earned it, it is meaningless to you.

If someone presents you with a trophy in recognition of your hard work and excellence, then you have something you can be proud of. You will take care of it, and wouldn't risk anything happening to it. You cherish it.

IMO, citizenship is much the same way.

Very well said.

[HEROHAMO]

The people who come here and stay here legally go through a difficult and often expensive process to be here.

They are proud to be here, and there is no better day than the day they are granted full citizenship. I work at a cab company, and I see it all the time.

They earn their citizenship, and while many of us were born with it, I think we tend to take it for granted.

Many of my drivers are from India and Pakistan.

They bust their humps (no pun intended) to get here and stay here legally, and when they do, there is no prouder man than the guy who was just granted full citizenship status.

Those who sneak in here, or try and beat the system once they are here are only cheating those guys.

What do they care about this Country? Where do their loyalties lay? As far as I'm concerned, if you went through all of the headache to get here, spent all of the money on attorneys and classes to take the citizenship tests, than you have earned your citizenship here, and my respect.

You respect things more when you've earned them. Sure you could go down to the hobby store and purchase yourself a trophy. You can proudly display it on your mantle, but if you haven't earned it, it is meaningless to you.

If someone presents you with a trophy in recognition of your hard work and excellence, then you have something you can be proud of. You will take care of it, and wouldn't risk anything happening to it. You cherish it.

IMO, citizenship is much the same way.

[HEROHAMO]

What I want to point out to Americans is this.

We can prosper from the situation. We can kill two birds with one stone. We can help out the economy and make new citizens.
We can turn a negative into a positive ten fold.

In fact this is the way I like to think about any issue this country is facing. Turn the problem into a prosperous situation. It is possible very possible.

Plenty of ways to prosper with health care as well as immigration. Reform,intelligence, creativity, responsibility and integrity.
Yes there is always going to be corruption. It does not mean it is hopless.

[KazooSkinsFan]

What I want to point out to Americans is this.

We can prosper from the situation. We can kill two birds with one stone. We can help out the economy and make new citizens.
We can turn a negative into a positive ten fold.

In fact this is the way I like to think about any issue this country is facing. Turn the problem into a prosperous situation. It is possible very possible.

Plenty of ways to prosper with health care as well as immigration. Reform,intelligence, creativity, responsibility and integrity.
Yes there is always going to be corruption. It does not mean it is hopless.

What point are you trying to make?

[VetSkinsFan]

Many many immigrants don't cross the desert from mexico, so the wall is just one part of the securing the borders.

There are many many tunnels used for various forms of trafficking that are found every day.

Financing a wall and maintaining it/manning it is damn near impossible.

Sounds unconstitutional to tax any citizen based on your criteria.

The enforcement of deportation is extremely expensive which is part of the reason it's not enforced currently.

We have enough problems with Social Security with the government 'borrowing' from it. You propose taking MORE Social Security away?

Social Security withholding is supposed to be social security withholding, not calling Social Security withholding until you feel you want to put it in a different fund.

[HEROHAMO]

What I want to point out to Americans is this.

We can prosper from the situation. We can kill two birds with one stone. We can help out the economy and make new citizens.
We can turn a negative into a positive ten fold.

In fact this is the way I like to think about any issue this country is facing. Turn the problem into a prosperous situation. It is possible very possible.

Plenty of ways to prosper with health care as well as immigration. Reform,intelligence, creativity, responsibility and integrity.
Yes there is always going to be corruption. It does not mean it is hopless.

What point are you trying to make?

Basically we can take advantage of the situation. To most people illegal immigration is viewed as a problem. I try to look at it from a couple different angles. I could whine and moan on how illegal immigration is hurting the U.S.A ? Or I can see an opportunity.

[HEROHAMO]

Many many immigrants don't cross the desert from mexico, so the wall is just one part of the securing the borders.

There are many many tunnels used for various forms of trafficking that are found every day.

Financing a wall and maintaining it/manning it is damn near impossible.

Sounds unconstitutional to tax any citizen based on your criteria.

The enforcement of deportation is extremely expensive which is part of the reason it's not enforced currently.

We have enough problems with Social Security with the government 'borrowing' from it. You propose taking MORE Social Security away?

Social Security withholding is supposed to be social security withholding, not calling Social Security withholding until you feel you want to put it in a different fund.

I see it as a start. Not a one shot solution. A start to a continuing effort.
How we pay for it ?
Only I.I.s who have been working for at least five years or have gone to school for at least five years will be eligible for a probationary path to citizenship.
These I.I.s who can prove at least five years of work history shall forfeit any social security earnings they had accumulated before there start of the probationary period. They shall also pay a penalty and be taxed 5 to ten percent more then regular citizens until they become citizens.

Illegal immigrants will never see there social security as long as they are
illegal.
Foreighn exchange students have to pay more in tuition so I think the I.I.s should pay more in taxes, penalties and forfeit any social security earnings in exchange for a path to citizenship.
Sounds fair to me. I would love to poll some Illegal Immigrants to see what they think.

[langleyparkjoe]

If they came here illegally than they shouldn't be working here, PERIOD. Your saying if they work here for a couple of years as illegal immigrants than they should have an easier opportunity to get citizenship? BOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! (unless I totally misread the whole thing) Look, I'm in Langleypark and its like little El Salvador, Cuba, DR, etc. all in one and though some that I know are cool and all that, one of those same guys COULD be on illegal status and take away a job that Johnny who was born in Holy Cross has worked hard for.. I'm not with that at all.

For the record Bob was 100% right

[Cappster]

Illegal immigration and what to do with the illegal immigrants already living here is a problem that needs to worked on. I think its a necessity to grant illegal immigrants working here right now a temporary work permit so they are documented and can be accounted for (taxed). I know some people who just want to ship them back to their Country, but that is, at best, a costly pipe dream. I say we give them a chance to be legalized, but have a tiered program that will allow them the opportunity for a temporary or permanent work vise and/or citizenship. I don't look at it as rewarding bad behavior rather it is making up for our lack of immigration enforcement.

As far as securing the border, I don't really know how to do that. Building walls, using advanced surveillance technologies, deploying more border guards, etc...? Something needs to happen as the current system has done very little to keep illegal immigrants out.

[langleyparkjoe]

deploying more border guards, etc...?

Only problem is if one of those guards actually shoot and kill someone trying to get across the border than the guard gets reprimanded for it

[Bob 0119]

deploying more border guards, etc...?

Only problem is if one of those guards actually shoot and kill someone trying to get across the border than the guard gets reprimanded for it

You couldn't shoot someone trying to cross the border unless you created a "kill zone" within the border. If you shoot them on the Canadian or Mexican side of the border, they could be subject to all kinds of international laws.

I'm certainly not for that kind of plan in a country known as "the land of the free."

Walls/fences/cameras etc is one thing, but shoot-on-sight is something completely different!

When we think illegal immigrant we imagine border jumpers, but I believe that they account for the lower end amount of illegal aliens. Most I believe come here legally, but overstay their alotment. Nobody is tracking them once they are here, so if they don't "voluntarily" show up when they are supposed to, chances are nobody is going to look real hard for them.

That's the part we need to fix, and in order to do that, I believe the feds need to co-op with local law enforcment.

You know, if we legalized drugs, we could convert that budget to border security...

I don't want to go off-topic and start a drug-legalization argument, but it is something to consider.

[KazooSkinsFan]

I don't want to go off-topic and start a {n other} argument...

Dude, you are so not me

[Bob 0119]

I don't want to go off-topic and start a {n other} argument...

Dude, you are so not me

Yeah, true enough...