Bucs / Redskins POST-game thread

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:39 pm

Starts here...(unless I'me blind and missed it!)

SCSkinsFan · Post by **SCSkinsFan** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:45 pm

I was wondering what took so long to get a post game thread up. :-)

What can be said Okay, whjo's going to be the first one to say a "W" is a "W"?

Point to Ponder - Wonder if any Canadian Football team will offer JC a contract after this year? I can't see any NFL team making him an offer. Sonny said his 1st half QB rating was 18. 3 INT's & 2 Fumbles.

CR22 might not get many offers either, unless he gets a 2 hand transplant.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:45 pm

...and to start, I'll say that I am dancing for the win, but apprehensive about Campbell's three INTs and fumble.

Did anyone who saw the game -- I didn't -- find reasons for the INTs? Like receiver misses catch, pops ball into air, or receiver runs wrong route?

That's a lot of interceptions.

Still, a win is better than...(you finish it)

Californiaskin · Post by **Californiaskin** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:47 pm

good 3rd quarter......portis played well......d stepped up and got the bucs off the field......this team is kinda crappy Im glad we won

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:49 pm

We need to find a way to improve our O-line play but not sure we can with what we have. Rabach, Rhinehart and Heyer are blown off the ball way too often. Our D showed some heart in the 2nd half and I was happy to see that, their 3rd down D was much improved. All in all, conisdering how we've played we are very fortunate to be 2-2 through the first quarter of the season. Also, despite Campbell's poor first half and bad pick in the 2nd half I was happy to see him come out and make some plays to put us in the lead.

SCSkinsFan · Post by **SCSkinsFan** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:50 pm

Coach Z Presser - Says he did not consider pulling JC.

I'm the play caller, I was frustrated, and I couldn't get it started in the first half. And I questioned the/my game plan.

Praised the D.

We hung in there. Great effort. (Novel ideas).

CP ran hard (25 for 98 yds).

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

RayNAustin · Post by **RayNAustin** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:54 pm

oneman56 wrote:We need to find a way to improve our O-line play but not sure we can with what we have. Rabach, Rhinehart and Heyer are blown off the ball way too often. Our D showed some heart in the 2nd half and I was happy to see that, their 3rd down D was much improved. All in all, conisdering how we've played we are very fortunate to be 2-2 through the first quarter of the season. Also, despite Campbell's poor first half and bad pick in the 2nd half I was happy to see him come out and make some plays to put us in the lead.

The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

oneman56 · Post by **oneman56** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:56 pm

RayNAustin wrote:
oneman56 wrote:We need to find a way to improve our O-line play but not sure we can with what we have. Rabach, Rhinehart and Heyer are blown off the ball way too often. Our D showed some heart in the 2nd half and I was happy to see that, their 3rd down D was much improved. All in all, conisdering how we've played we are very fortunate to be 2-2 through the first quarter of the season. Also, despite Campbell's poor first half and bad pick in the 2nd half I was happy to see him come out and make some plays to put us in the lead.

The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

see you there Ray, are you seriously prepared to argue that those 3 are playing well?

welch · Post by **welch** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:06 pm

The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

Gentlemen, is it necessary to go to Smack to discuss how the OL played or whether Campbell had time?

My rule-of-thumb is to count three seconds. One-thousand one, one-thousand two...

Three seconds is proper protection. More is good protection probably matched against good defensive coverage. Nobody open.

Under three is only for Sonny Jurgensen, who had the quickest release ever along with Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, and, later, Roy Jefferson.

What caused the interceptions?

Paralis · Post by **Paralis** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:08 pm

RayNAustin wrote:The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

Yeah. They looked great giving up two sacks in the first three offensive snaps of the game.

Kudos to Buges for whatever he said to settle Heyer and Rinehart down, but Campbell's only getting a lot of time when the other team's rushing three or we're in max-protect. There's just a limit to what scheme can do when the players are losing individual matchups.

Champsturf · Post by **Champsturf** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:35 pm

welch wrote:
The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

Gentlemen, is it necessary to go to Smack to discuss how the OL played or whether Campbell had time?

My rule-of-thumb is to count three seconds. One-thousand one, one-thousand two...

Three seconds is proper protection. More is good protection probably matched against good defensive coverage. Nobody open.

Under three is only for Sonny Jurgensen, who had the quickest release ever along with Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, and, later, Roy Jefferson.

What caused the interceptions?

Campbell is what caused those INTs. It wasn't pressure, tips, or anything. Just bad passes either into coverage, behind or whatever. They were ALL on Campbell.

gushogs · Post by **gushogs** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:48 pm

Is there some kind of hint that Campbell could be bench anytime soon?

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:59 pm

Somehow, I'm not humming "HTTR". While I did not have tremendous expectations for the team this year, I thought the defense would be better.
Somehow, we're worse. How can that be?
This seems like it's going to be one of those seasons where we have to take what they're giving us and be happy when we eke one out, because this team has no fire that I can see. They also seem to not have a plan. One thing is tangible...we're still pretty good when pressed, but only if the other team scores first. We don't have a killer instinct.
Maybe I'm wrong, but this doesn't feel like a win to me. It feels like, "Well, we didn't lose."
You know, "ho-hum". We're going to need to get open downfield and plug up those holes up front for the Panthers, or else the body count is going to rise significantly.

funbunchfever · Post by **funbunchfever** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:09 pm

Champsturf wrote:
welch wrote:
The o-line gave Campbell all day to pass. I invite YOU to smack for further analysis of this post

Gentlemen, is it necessary to go to Smack to discuss how the OL played or whether Campbell had time?

My rule-of-thumb is to count three seconds. One-thousand one, one-thousand two...

Three seconds is proper protection. More is good protection probably matched against good defensive coverage. Nobody open.

Under three is only for Sonny Jurgensen, who had the quickest release ever along with Charley Taylor, Bobby Mitchell, and, later, Roy Jefferson.

What caused the interceptions?
Campbell is what caused those INTs. It wasn't pressure, tips, or anything. Just bad passes either into coverage, behind or whatever. They were ALL on Campbell.

Campbell threw into double coverage over the middle to Kelly (I believe) on one of them. He threw a deep pass down the sideline for Kelly that was thrown to the inside with inside coverage by Talib. He threw a deep pass to Moss that was underthrown and double covered. One was a bad decision. One was a bad throw. One was a bad decision and bad throw.

That being said, hopefully Campbell will get over playing it too safe and open up a little bit. He did have the long TD pass to Moss. That ended up being the play of the game IMHO.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:13 pm

welch wrote:...and to start, I'll say that I am dancing for the win, but apprehensive about Campbell's three INTs and fumble.

Did anyone who saw the game -- I didn't -- find reasons for the INTs? Like receiver misses catch, pops ball into air, or receiver runs wrong route?

That's a lot of interceptions.

Still, a win is better than...(you finish it)

Bottom line is JC just isn't very good. All three of the int's were clearly on him and he missed some other throws that he also should have made.

vbskinsfan · Post by **vbskinsfan** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:17 pm

SCSkinsFan wrote:Coach Z Presser - Says he did not consider pulling JC.

maybe he wasnt watching the same JC i saw all game.........

HEROHAMO · Post by **HEROHAMO** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:35 pm

Coming off a loss to Detroit? Well I will take it. A win is a win in this league. You can never take any team for granted.
We should be happy. I just think that most are still pretty angry that we lost to the Lions. Fact of the matter is the Lions have a decent offense that can put up points.

So we eek out a win. It is still improvement. The weaknesses on the Oline are evident now more then ever. Still if we can get Campbell to get us three or more touchdowns a game we will start winning more convincingly.

Hey JC is getting better. No he is not a world beater at the moment. I do see improvement. So I think they will build on that.

grampi · Post by **grampi** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:47 pm

I'll take the win, but it was an ugly one. The offense basically put together one nice drive, and connected on a bomb to SM. Other than that the defense carried the team as usual. Today's performance was hardly anything to get excited about, though it may help if we can get another W again next week against KC to build some confidence. The way the team's been playing confidence has got to be at an all-time low.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:44 pm

Funny how the same people complaining on here today were the same that were benching (<--- ad lib) and moaning on here about JC not taking risks. So today he forced the ball expecting a player to make a play. Now this is something we've not seen in the 20 games he's played in he did for the first time and failed. Not going to kill the kid b/c it didn't work out. BUT HE MUST IMPROVE AND LEARN FROM HIS MISTAKES.

Regardless of what anyone things, the first half line blocking was terrible. JC and CP might have had 2 seconds max to get back to the l.o.s. or get the ball out or it was a sack or tackle for loss.

Great 2nd half to come back from the deepest hole we've been in all season. Lets build on this. We have another favorable matchup next week vs. Carolina and can win that game. Let's build.

Fios · Post by **Fios** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:48 pm

frankcal20 wrote:Funny how the same people complaining on here today were the same that were benching (<--- ad lib) and moaning on here about JC not taking risks. So today he forced the ball expecting a player to make a play. Now this is something we've not seen in the 20 games he's played in he did for the first time and failed. Not going to kill the kid b/c it didn't work out. BUT HE MUST IMPROVE AND LEARN FROM HIS MISTAKES.

Regardless of what anyone things, the first half line blocking was terrible. JC and CP might have had 2 seconds max to get back to the l.o.s. or get the ball out or it was a sack or tackle for loss.

Great 2nd half to come back from the deepest hole we've been in all season. Lets build on this. We have another favorable matchup next week vs. Carolina and can win that game. Let's build.

I can't agree with the JC assessment, his INTs were 100% his fault, they were both bad decisions and bad throws. Sometimes a QB throws a 50-50 ball that the receiver gives up on and sometimes a corner just makes an outstanding play but the picks JC threw were just terrible passes, from the decision to throw in the first place to the execution of the throw.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:50 pm

I guess I wasn't clear enough. Both int's were poor passes and should not have ever been thrown but at the end of the day, he's the type of player who will learn from it. Ex: TD to Moss.

brad7686 · Post by **brad7686** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:53 pm

frankcal20 wrote:Funny how the same people complaining on here today were the same that were benching (<--- ad lib) and moaning on here about JC not taking risks. So today he forced the ball expecting a player to make a play. Now this is something we've not seen in the 20 games he's played in he did for the first time and failed. Not going to kill the kid b/c it didn't work out. BUT HE MUST IMPROVE AND LEARN FROM HIS MISTAKES.

Regardless of what anyone things, the first half line blocking was terrible. JC and CP might have had 2 seconds max to get back to the l.o.s. or get the ball out or it was a sack or tackle for loss.

Great 2nd half to come back from the deepest hole we've been in all season. Lets build on this. We have another favorable matchup next week vs. Carolina and can win that game. Let's build.

He looked a lot worse this week than last week. He really looked ok last week, but people want him benched every week, so thats why its the way it was here last week. He can't play the way he did today. We don't have great weapons at WR aside from moss occasionally making it of the l.o.s. and making a play. He has to play within the offense and Zorn has to playcall within the offense. More screens and short passes, especially against underneath coverage like the bucs showed all day. They were so unafraid of the line that they gameplanned around stopping campbell. When has that ever happened before?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:55 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I guess I wasn't clear enough. Both int's were poor passes and should not have ever been thrown but at the end of the day, he's the type of player who will learn from it. Ex: TD to Moss.

Both? That implies two int's. JC had three, and a fumble. It's one thing to take risks and give your receiver a chance to make a play on the ball (which is what people have criticized him for not doing). It's completely different to make terrible decisions and even worse throws. On none of the three int's did a receiver even have a chance to get to the ball.

As for him learning, he is a 5th year NFL player that is still performing like a rookie. The guy is simply clueless on the football field and needs to be pulled.

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:58 pm

I think he's in his 20th game. Regardless of 5 years or whatever, it's still the 20th game. Holding a clip board and being a secretary to keep stat's is not learning.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:04 pm

frankcal20 wrote:I think he's in his 20th game. Regardless of 5 years or whatever, it's still the 20th game. Holding a clip board and being a secretary to keep stat's is not learning.

20?? What are you talking about? Today was JC's 40th career start. There is no excuse for him to still be playing this poorly after 40 starts.