When does it end?

[cleg]

I know the mods won't like this post and many will ignore it or angrily say I should be more positive therefore my post is useless. But, after watching the game last night and seeing Coach Zorn's face change from deer in the headlights to an understanding that he simply does not have the players it occured to me that we've seen this movie before. Over and over.

It first screened in 1993 with the totally inept Richie Pettibone team then a series of sequels from 1994 through 2000 with the wonderous teams of Norv Turner. In 2001-2003 it was particularly a sad stretch of B movies staring Marty Schottenheimer and Steve "what is a defense" Spurrier. And yes, our beloved right wing evangelical Joe Gibbs released more sequals in his own poorly rated sequal.

I've had enough people. I'm glad I gave up my season tickets because it would be more interesting to watch my money swirl around as I flush it down the toilet. I am not going to pay money to watch Chris Samuels joke around on the sideline while he let's his QB get killed or Springs laugh it up while his understudy is laying hurt on the field. Classless.

We can't convert a third down, can't stop a third and long, can't hold a mediocre running back to less than 7 yards a carry, can't run a two minute offense, can't run a four minute offense, hell, can't run a 60 minute offense.

Coach Zorn, Clinton, Santana, ARE, ey, and the other who appear to give a damn, bless your hearts but leave via free agency when you get a chance. The Danny and that clown of a sidekick have not learned any lessons nor have they shown an aptitude to learn from their past mistakes. Sad really.

[LORD GIBBS]

Cry me a river man whaaaaaaaaa its the first game give him a chance you naysayer glad you gave them tickets up cause you prolly the type of fan who puts a bag on his head and yells ZORN SUCKS He needs his fare shot give him a break

[VetSkinsFan]

I know the mods won't like this post and many will ignore it or angrily say I should be more positive therefore my post is useless.

It's an angry rant without giving a 1st year head coach a chance. What's new?

It first screened in 1993 with the totally inept Richie Pettibone team then a series of sequels from 1994 through 2000 with the wonderous teams of Norv Turner. In 2001-2003 it was particularly a sad stretch of B movies staring Marty Schottenheimer and Steve "what is a defense" Spurrier. And yes, our beloved right wing evangelical Joe Gibbs released more sequals in his own poorly rated sequal.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Way to recap.

I've had enough people. I'm glad I gave up my season tickets because it would be more interesting to watch my money swirl around as I flush it down the toilet. I am not going to pay money to watch Chris Samuels joke around on the sideline while he let's his QB get killed or Springs laugh it up while his understudy is laying hurt on the field. Classless.

JC was sacked 1x and it came from Heyer's side, not Samuels. How exactly is this again?.
I seriously doubt Springs was laughing, or any of the players out there, while a fellow player was writhing in pain.

We can't convert a third down, can't stop a third and long, can't hold a mediocre running back to less than 7 yards a carry, can't run a two minute offense, can't run a four minute offense, hell, can't run a 60 minute offense.

Interestingly enough, I don't think I saw you out there last nite, Mr ArmChair GM. How many snaps did you get? Where were you drafted?

Coach Zorn, Clinton, Santana, ARE, ey, and the other who appear to give a damn, bless your hearts but leave via free agency when you get a chance. The Danny and that clown of a sidekick have not learned any lessons nor have they shown an aptitude to learn from their past mistakes. Sad really.

Honestly, if it's so bad, why is it that fans with this perception do it to themselves? I'm sure there's many other teams that don't mind bandwagoners; I think the Cowboys have been benefitting from this for the past couple of years and immensely in the 90s.

It's understandable that we, as fans, get frustrated when things aren't going the way we hope, that's what makes us fans. But to crucify without exception based on the first week of the new offense (with new O Coord, D Coord, and HC) is quite shortsighted. Every man deserves the benefit of the doubt; that's what this country itself is allegedly based upon. Why can't we give Zorn, who has reputable credentials, that benefit?

[cleg]

Cry me a river man whaaaaaaaaa its the first game give him a chance you naysayer glad you gave them tickets up cause you prolly the type of fan who puts a bag on his head and yells ZORN SUCKS He needs his fare shot give him a break

Attack the post, not the poster my man.

[riggofan]

I enjoy the Redskins too much to get as carried away as the original poster did. Winning or losing, doesn't matter to me, I'll be there.

I do have to admit though that this morning I had the exact same thought you wrote about:

it occured to me that we've seen this movie before. Over and over.

Not sure what the feeling was exactly. But yeah I had that gut feeling that we're in for more of the same.

Its been a long time since we've had a really good team. I hope Zorn can get the most out of this team, and that the fans will have the patience to let him do it. Who knows? We may find out that we're just totally hamstrung by the front office like people have suspected for a long time.

Enjoy the ride either way!

[cleg]

I know the mods won't like this post and many will ignore it or angrily say I should be more positive therefore my post is useless.

It's an angry rant without giving a 1st year head coach a chance. What's new?

It first screened in 1993 with the totally inept Richie Pettibone team then a series of sequels from 1994 through 2000 with the wonderous teams of Norv Turner. In 2001-2003 it was particularly a sad stretch of B movies staring Marty Schottenheimer and Steve "what is a defense" Spurrier. And yes, our beloved right wing evangelical Joe Gibbs released more sequals in his own poorly rated sequal.

Hindsight is always 20/20. Way to recap.

I've had enough people. I'm glad I gave up my season tickets because it would be more interesting to watch my money swirl around as I flush it down the toilet. I am not going to pay money to watch Chris Samuels joke around on the sideline while he let's his QB get killed or Springs laugh it up while his understudy is laying hurt on the field. Classless.

JC was sacked 1x and it came from Heyer's side, not Samuels. How exactly is this again?.
I seriously doubt Springs was laughing, or any of the players out there, while a fellow player was writhing in pain.

We can't convert a third down, can't stop a third and long, can't hold a mediocre running back to less than 7 yards a carry, can't run a two minute offense, can't run a four minute offense, hell, can't run a 60 minute offense.

Interestingly enough, I don't think I saw you out there last nite, Mr ArmChair GM. How many snaps did you get? Where were you drafted?

Coach Zorn, Clinton, Santana, ARE, ey, and the other who appear to give a damn, bless your hearts but leave via free agency when you get a chance. The Danny and that clown of a sidekick have not learned any lessons nor have they shown an aptitude to learn from their past mistakes. Sad really.

Honestly, if it's so bad, why is it that fans with this perception do it to themselves? I'm sure there's many other teams that don't mind bandwagoners; I think the Cowboys have been benefitting from this for the past couple of years and immensely in the 90s.

It's understandable that we, as fans, get frustrated when things aren't going the way we hope, that's what makes us fans. But to crucify without exception based on the first week of the new offense (with new O Coord, D Coord, and HC) is quite shortsighted. Every man deserves the benefit of the doubt; that's what this country itself is allegedly based upon. Why can't we give Zorn, who has reputable credentials, that benefit?

I'm not the one not giving the first year coach a chance - that's the owner of the team doing that boss. Check the replay's Shawn Springs was laughing it up when Smoot was down on the ground.

I would normally agree with your final point but the entire reason I posted this is that I have NO faith that this is going to be any different that the last 15 years. It is frustrating and I understand it is just one game but the mistakes were carbon copies of the same mistakes for 15 years with different player, coaches and even owners. Where is the hope in that?

[Chris Luva Luva]

It's going to take quite some time for Zorn to right this ship...

I think we're all dissapointed in the utter lack of progress on the field. I wasn't expecting awesome, great or even good results. Mediocre was what I expected but even mediocrity seems a way off. LOLOL

!

[VetSkinsFan]

If there's no enjoyment in being a fan of the Redskins, why do it then? Regardless of the record, FO or other mistakes, I still get excited every day the Redskins take the field. If the excitement and pleasure wasn't there, then I wouldn't do it. Why do people with these outlooks torture themselves?

[cleg]

If there's no enjoyment in being a fan of the Redskins, why do it then? Regardless of the record, FO or other mistakes, I still get excited every day the Redskins take the field. If the excitement and pleasure wasn't there, then I wouldn't do it. Why do people with these outlooks torture themselves?

Because you grow up with it and it is part of your identity - which is exactly why I care so much. But I cannot accept the fact that this team has been making the same mistaked for a decade and a half - enough! I did not expect a win last night nor did I have any illusions that this team would make a run. I expect their to be growing pains but what I saw was no different than I've seen for years and years. As a deeply comitted fan I have the right to be frustrated.

[LORD GIBBS]

Cry me a river man whaaaaaaaaa its the first game give him a chance you naysayer glad you gave them tickets up cause you prolly the type of fan who puts a bag on his head and yells ZORN SUCKS He needs his fare shot give him a break

Attack the post, not the poster my man.

Make sure you have a life vest

[Chris Luva Luva]

I did not expect a win last night nor did I have any illusions that this team would make a run. I expect their to be growing pains but what I saw was no different than I've seen for years and years. As a deeply comitted fan I have the right to be frustrated.

I can relate to how U felt and I think it's valid. I didn't expect a win, and I knew by the 3rd quarter that it wasn't going to happen.

What we got offensively was a let down. I wasn't looking for TD bombs, 200 yards from CP, nothing like that.

I was looking for completions, 3rd down conversions, a drive here or there.

But I feel that they'll be improved for next week.

[BnGhog]

Well for starters, We don't know what Springs was laughing at. He might not have even known who was down. For all we know, he might not have been able to see all the way across the field. He was down on the sidelines, not up in the stands with a good view ya know. For all we know he could have been talking about boning Cheerleaders. You just want to assume he's laughing at Smoot, because the camera goes from Smoot in pain, to Springs laughing. That's just a dump assumption. IMO.

Now, I enjoyed the game. I had a great time seeing the Skins in action. The starters playing more than one series.

There were some good things. The D looked great in the second half. I told my wife, the minute Eli threw that INT, he was done for the game. He's no longer effective after he throws INTs.

So from that point on, our O needed to step up. They tried. I thought our line did ok, considering the Giants were the sack kings last year. JC stayed under pressure. But he at least he did get the ball out most of the time.

But the big thing to me is how we tried to turn it around. Our 1st Q sucked. But our guys did not quit. Nor did our head coach. He talked to JC. He listend to Portis. That's a very good thing to talk to your players who see whats going on, on the field. Especially if a vet like Portis sees something.

This was our FIRST game. Three months ago, we had a tread, and we picked our Ws and Ls for the season. Almost everyone picked this game as a L. The general feeling was that we will still be learning the Offense.

Now, the time is here and we lose our first game. And everyone forgets that, and says we are over. This is just crazy.

It was so obvious in the game, that we don't have that much of a passing game. Which is what we assumed three months ago. As they get more plays down you will see more passing plays. As these come in, you will see the no huddle, and two minute drill come in.

Plus, as Thomas, gets more action. Plus, the in game changes, Zorn is making.

Dude they were trying to win that game, they had that urge. They just couldn't get it done. YET!

I for one, am still excited the season is here, and can't wait for our next game.

[cleg]

I for one, am still excited the season is here, and can't wait for our next game.

I am too. The shot of Springs laughing occured with enough time for him to know that someone was down - I don't think he was laughing at Smoot - but it does not look good when you are getting crushed, a teamate is down and your a China Doll who can't get on the feild and your laughing.

Why can't we be frustrated with the performance of the team? My goodness people we can express discontent as fans. This is like when you question the motives of a war your patriotism is questioned. It's insane, I love my Skins and I am very disappointed in them - why is that hard to understand?

[BnGhog]

I never questioned you being a fan nor did it say you couldn't.


I only expressed my feelings.

I know your are a major fan. I see you on here all the time.

I'm just more positive about this game.

That don't mean I will be positive after the next.

[SKINFAN]

I wonder how long it will take for Zorn's hair to turn all gray... November, December??


Last night was a bad night out for the offense, the Defense showed they can no longer carry this team and win games...

[DEHog]

Cleg, I certainly understand how you feel. I don’t allow myself to get to emotionally wrapped up with the Skins…I love football and my favorite team is the Skins. I choose to renew my tickets every year because it’s how I spend my entertainment dollar. That’s how I look at it now; I go to be entertained, be it by the Skins or who they are playing. (Between the Skins, Pop Warner and high School teams I coach, my son’s team and the local colleges, I take in at least 4 games a week.)
I share your concerned for the laughing as well, especially after reading an article about Samuels playing with a heavy heart??? I said before the game that the play of the O-Line was crucial; well they looked very old last night!

[SkinsJock]

In my opinion the giants are not that good a team. They have a QB who is not as good as they think he is. I'm more proud of our coach than that idiot they have. And they are going to find out pretty soon that they were just in the right place at the right time during last year's playoffs - they didn't win any of those games; the teams they were playing just flat out played well below the level they should have.

I know that all means nothing but if Cleg is upset with what he saw last night just wait until he catches a glimpse of what a good team like the Saints do to our team next week.

I will still be here for our team - they are not as bad as they looked and they are trying to address all the issues they have. I guess I just have faith that they will show up and do better each week.

[SKINFAN]

oh boy, Mark Brunnel is coming to town.....

[DEHog]

The thing that worries me the most about this team is the play of the o-line all of them are over 30…except Heyer and in my opinion he did not show why he is starting over Jansen last night. They looked old last night. We play in a division with some great defenses. Last night it just looked like the Giants just pushed us aside on their way the beat up the real bullies Dallas and Philly. I don’t see how we compete in our division with the current state of our o-line. The way Portis runs he should be having 1500+ every year??

[aswas71788]

cleg, you probably have not been a fan that long. That long being 20+ years. Most fans here remember George Allen and Joe Gibbs 1 as the standard for the Redskins. They are not. George Allen and Joe Gibbs 1 were the only winning coaches the Redskins have ever had. Except fot them, the Redskins have been a team of sometimes futility and less than mediocracy. During the Dickie James, Billy Barnes and Eddie LaBaron era, the Redskin offense was referred to as the "2 yards and a cloud of dust offense". All 3 of those guys together were probably not as tall as nor weigh as much as Jason Campbell (just kidding). Billy BArnes was once described as a 135 pound fullback. There were times when the head coach changed faster than a traffic light. Pettibone (sp?) and Spurrier were not the worst head coaches the Redskins have had. Believe it or not, they are about middle of the road.

Being a fan of any team is tough. We wish for a Super Bowl team every year. We get frustrated because the coaches and management obviously do not know as much about running a football team as we do. They just won't listen to what we perceive as obvious advice on how to win, on player selection, on play calling, etc. We live through a lot of bad years to get to those 1 or 2 good years. If you do not want to be a Redskins fan, then that is OK (again, not insult or attack intended), choose another team. But you will find that that team will also go through bad years to get to those 1 or 2 good years.

[HanburgerHelper]

I did not expect a win last night nor did I have any illusions that this team would make a run. I expect their to be growing pains but what I saw was no different than I've seen for years and years. As a deeply comitted fan I have the right to be frustrated.

I can relate to how U felt and I think it's valid. I didn't expect a win, and I knew by the 3rd quarter that it wasn't going to happen.

What we got offensively was a let down...

But I feel that they'll be improved for next week.

Good commentary here and way to put things in perspective Luva Luva. Look cleg, we're all disappointed and feel your pain. Some of us are realistic about this club with a most new coaching staff. I personally never felt like Jason Campbell was the answer at QB but hope he proves me wrong as he gets more acclimated to the system. I think he doesn't have the intangibles which cannot be taught but needs great OL play in front of him to succeed, sort of like Mark Rypien did. The OL is pretty old and I think we'll shore that up in drafts to come. Win Now? Yes, we'd all love that but do you realistically think this team is Super Bowl bound?

Anyway, it's early and we lost to the G-men in a much bigger heartbreaker last year in our throwback uniforms. Our two appearances in the playoffs the past four years were a result of late season pushes. Maybe it'll happen again that way this year. In any case we're fans of this team through thick and thin and I like what the front office is doing. Didn't all 10 of the draftees make this year's opening day roster? I think that's pretty unusual, certainly for the Redskins. I wish I had a ticket for one game let alone season tickets. You're lucky for that.

Well for starters, We don't know what Springs was laughing at. He might not have even known who was down. For all we know, he might not have been able to see all the way across the field. He was down on the sidelines, not up in the stands with a good view ya know. For all we know he could have been talking about boning Cheerleaders. You just want to assume he's laughing at Smoot, because the camera goes from Smoot in pain, to Springs laughing. That's just a dump assumption. IMO.

Now, I enjoyed the game...

I for one, am still excited the season is here, and can't wait for our next game.

I saw that too but I agree, who knows what Springs was laughing about? I'm sure it wasn't about a fallen teamate. I'll say this though. We need CBs who can cover. Rogers' performance was a mixed bag, but mostly I was nervous about him out there. Smoot was great and should have had two picks. One in the end zone was thrown right into his arms. Leigh Torrence must have been pretty good because I don't recall him getting burned, maybe on the Sinorice Moss catch. Not sure who was covering on that but that move by Sinorice would have left anyone's jock on the field.

I didn't see Samuels getting his head out of the game. Missed that. On the last play of the game he tackled that Giants DE to save Campbell from getting hit and the Redskins hope in the game (although bad clock mgt had killed it already). I think that was headsy even though Samuels immediately seemed remorseful about the prospect of hurting the DE.

[SKINFAN]

The thing that worries me the most about this team is the play of the o-line all of them are over 30…except Heyer and in my opinion he did not show why he is starting over Jansen last night. They looked old last night. We play in a division with some great defenses. Last night it just looked like the Giants just pushed us aside on their way the beat up the real bullies Dallas and Philly. I don’t see how we compete in our division with the current state of our o-line. The way Portis runs he should be having 1500+ every year??

This is cause to worry, I'm hoping it's just rust from not playing together.

Here's to hoping!

[cleg]

cleg, you probably have not been a fan that long. That long being 20+ years. Most fans here remember George Allen and Joe Gibbs 1 as the standard for the Redskins. They are not. George Allen and Joe Gibbs 1 were the only winning coaches the Redskins have ever had. Except fot them, the Redskins have been a team of sometimes futility and less than mediocracy. During the Dickie James, Billy Barnes and Eddie LaBaron era, the Redskin offense was referred to as the "2 yards and a cloud of dust offense". All 3 of those guys together were probably not as tall as nor weigh as much as Jason Campbell (just kidding). Billy BArnes was once described as a 135 pound fullback. There were times when the head coach changed faster than a traffic light. Pettibone (sp?) and Spurrier were not the worst head coaches the Redskins have had. Believe it or not, they are about middle of the road.

Being a fan of any team is tough. We wish for a Super Bowl team every year. We get frustrated because the coaches and management obviously do not know as much about running a football team as we do. They just won't listen to what we perceive as obvious advice on how to win, on player selection, on play calling, etc. We live through a lot of bad years to get to those 1 or 2 good years. If you do not want to be a Redskins fan, then that is OK (again, not insult or attack intended), choose another team. But you will find that that team will also go through bad years to get to those 1 or 2 good years.

I've been a fan all my life which sounds like it is not as long as yours. Your right though, my first real memories of the team was in the late 1970s and watching the games with my Dad. I remember well the Super Bowl runs of 1982 and 1983 (a good year for the O's as well) and of course 1987 and 1991.

Even if you mean no disrespect it is disrespectful to suggest that I stop being a fan of the Redskins because of my frustrations and to pick another team. Just as I can't pick my family I can't pick my team and I will stick with them through it all. I don't contend to know more than management about football - I just think the management of this team is awful. Just because I think someone does not do their job well does it mean I think I could do it better nor does that fact take away my right to critique their performance. In my original post I mentioned I was happy to give up my tickets. I gave them up for economic reasons alone but it does make me feel better about that when the team stinks. Of course I miss my tickets.

[RayNAustin]

Personally, I believe the defense settled in after the first quarter, and kept us in the game right to the end. That was one of the question marks, ya know? If Blache's defense would play well? I think they did extremely well considering the five 3 and outs from the offense in the first seven series. That D was out there for over 20 minutes in the first half!! That they had ANY gas left in the tank in the 3rd and 4th Q is remarkable. It could have gotten WAY out of hand, but it didn't. That's a positive.

The negatives on D - Jacobs putting a miniskirt on Landry was a downer. Springs not playing, and Smoot getting hurt. But above all else, besides Carter (who looked good) the d-line was being blown off the line, and Taylor was invisible. Hope we shore up that line against the run better in the coming weeks.

On offense, well that's a whole different ballgame. Of course they are going to experience some growing pains with a new offense. That was something ALL OF US knew going in. But it was worse than it should have been, and that is disturbing.

Sorry JC fans, but Campbell highlighted one of the biggest issues we have on the very first play. That sack was in no way the fault of the o-line. JC drifted right into the oncoming rusher instead of staying in the pocket. So instead of completing a pass for a good gainer, and start off on the right track on the games first play, you give their defense an emotional boost. Terrible play, and it went down hill from there.

That was the only sack of the game, so the o-line wasn't bad bad. For those who can, watch the offensive plays again, and put a stop watch on JC. Even on short passes, he holds the ball a second, sometimes 2 seconds too long. That does two things...both bad...allows pressure to reach him when it shouldn't, and allows the DB's to close in on the reciever....the receiver that Campbell has locked onto like NORAD's radar. That's why we see so little yac, and failing to make first downs. It's easy to say "just run the routs past the first down marker, but that's what the defense is there to prevent. On 3rd and 8, they're giving you that 4 yard pass and closing in for the stop. They'll give you that stuff all day. And that's what we did. The only way you can beat that is to get the ball to them more quickly to allow your receivers space to make that yac.

Very early in the game, Moss smoked his man (had 2-3 steps) on a post rout...the o-line held, and Campbell hesitated, got the ball out late, and it was also under thrown. What could have been an easy TD ended up almost intercepted. In our division, you can't miss opportunities like that. You only get so many per game, and look how many games we lost last year by less than a TD? This is not a problem with the "System", it's poor QB play that has nothing to do with his familiarity with the offense. He's been doing this since the very beginning. Replay that play, put a stop watch on it....Campbell was easily 2 seconds late throwing. 2 seconds on a pass play is an ETERNITY. Can Zorn fix this? I don't think he can. This is purely a feel thing that QB's either have or don't have. Good QB's have an internal clock that tells them...throw now.....Campbell's clock is slow too often, and broken altogether when it comes to deep balls. So, get used to "almost". It ain't changing. Expect Campbell to get better with the short stuff, and maybe even decent yards per game....but don't expect a lot of points, and hope the defense can hold on.

As for Zorn, he looked like a rookie head coach last night. But it would be unfair to blame him for the lack of a 2 minute drill when it's painfully clear that Campbell hasn't managed to get comfortable with the basics yet.

His decision not to kick a FG, and try an onside kick though was a bad coaching decision. And the number of running plays with time running out was very poor play calling. He should have been throwing it on almost every down inside 3 minutes regardless of whether he trusted the offense (Campbell) to pull it off. You at least have to TRY.

That's my buck fifty.

[Deadskins]

Lot's of good points Ray, but on the deep ball to Moss, JC was nearly sacked. The defender had a handful of his jersey, but he managed to pull away. That is why he was late on that throw. I agree with most of the other analysis, though.