GSPODS - OK, who?

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:42 pm

GSPODS wrote: good number of players left the Redskins and suddenly improved drastically with another team

GSPODS wrote:There is no "Skin Bashing" on my part

That's not Skins bashing? Anyway, you're about to show me up by giving me a list of the "good number of players" who "improved drastically with another team."

You claimed, I challenged, back it up.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:06 pm

i could name a couple. pierce, walt harris also played well in SF, ryan clark has been missed.

but there is no way we should have kept lloyd around. nice guy, but it just didn't work out.

Bob 0119 · Post by **Bob 0119** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:18 pm

I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:25 pm

hailskins666 wrote:i could name a couple. pierce, walt harris also played well in SF, ryan clark has been missed.

but there is no way we should have kept lloyd around. nice guy, but it just didn't work out.

The standard wasn't players that went on to be successful, the standard was "suddenly improved drastically." Pierce had his sudden improvement with us, not when he left. The question was if it would last and if GW could duplicate it. I agree with your statements on Clark and Harris, but PODS specifically said how players left us and "suddenly improved dramatically." None of your examples support that.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:25 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.

stephen davis......

that still pisses me off to no end.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:26 pm

Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.

And again, Johnson was good before we got him, played well for us, and played well when he left. I was challenging PODS on his statement players leave us and "suddenly improve dramatically." You can't be saying Johnson did that.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:26 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:i could name a couple. pierce, walt harris also played well in SF, ryan clark has been missed.

but there is no way we should have kept lloyd around. nice guy, but it just didn't work out.

The standard wasn't players that went on to be successful, the standard was "suddenly improved drastically." Pierce had his sudden improvement with us, not when he left. The question was if it would last and if GW could duplicate it. I agree with your statements on Clark and Harris, but PODS specifically said how players left us and "suddenly improved dramatically." None of your examples support that.

ok, i'll give you that.

but, you could file those names under "general bone headed moves by the front office"

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:26 pm

Adam Archu. . .oh wait. :lol:

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:27 pm

Irn-Bru wrote:Adam Archu. . .oh wait.

taylor jacobs anyone?

ROTFALMAO

NC43Hog · Post by **NC43Hog** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:28 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.
stephen davis......

that still pisses me off to no end.

Stephen was good (really good) before he left.

Casualty of the failed Spurrier Project.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:28 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.
stephen davis......

that still pisses me off to no end.

Again, he was great for us, great when he left, he didn't "suddenly improve dramatically," which is specifically what I was challenging.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:30 pm

hailskins666 wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:i could name a couple. pierce, walt harris also played well in SF, ryan clark has been missed.

but there is no way we should have kept lloyd around. nice guy, but it just didn't work out.

The standard wasn't players that went on to be successful, the standard was "suddenly improved drastically." Pierce had his sudden improvement with us, not when he left. The question was if it would last and if GW could duplicate it. I agree with your statements on Clark and Harris, but PODS specifically said how players left us and "suddenly improved dramatically." None of your examples support that.
ok, i'll give you that.

I owed you one anyway for the "Cowboys fans are devil worshipers" one. :wink:

hailskins666 wrote:but, you could file those names under "general bone headed moves by the front office"

I agree that would be a lot harder to argue.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:31 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.
stephen davis......

that still pisses me off to no end.

Again, he was great for us, great when he left, he didn't "suddenly improve dramatically," which is specifically what I was challenging.

yea, i gotcha now. bad read on my part, carry on.

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:41 pm

How far back shall I go?

Stan Humphries
Mark Schlereth
Keenan McCardell
Frank Wycheck
Derek Smith
Kenard Lang
David Terrell
Shawn Barber
Steven Alexander
Trent Green
Champ Bailey
Robert Royal

All players the Redskins drafted who went on to start for other teams. Not all improved drastically, but quite a few did.
And these are just the draft picks.
Other people have listed some of the free agents.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:49 pm

GSPODS wrote:How far back shall I go?

Stan Humphries
Mark Schlereth
Keenan McCardell
Frank Wycheck
Derek Smith
Kenard Lang
David Terrell
Shawn Barber
Steven Alexander
Trent Green
Champ Bailey
Robert Royal

All players the Redskins drafted who went on to start for other teams. Not all improved drastically, but quite a few did.
And these are just the draft picks.
Other people have listed some of the free agents.

The question was who did, not "dump a bunch of names and hope you accidentally name enough to satisfy someone." None of those obviously meet the standard you set of "suddenly improved dramatically."

McCardell wasn't so "sudden." McCardall was a 12th round draft pick. I'll bet every team has plenty of them they cut who eventually made it with other teams. Other then that, Humphries was a starter in SD but never very great. Wycheck, a sixth rounder, like McCardall went on to a good career, but like McCardall he doesn't really meet your standard of "suddenly improved dramatically" so much as "a low round draft pick who eventually made it somewhere else."

Who else on the list was ever even "dramatically" better elsewhere then for us? Baily was great for us. Green we were considering a mega offer to keep but were tied up in ownership change, he was a surprise to no one when he left. You have a bunch of guys who were OK for us and the same when they left, Royal, Lang. Schlereth and Alexader were also good for us, hello.

What do you even think you answered here?

yupchagee · Post by **yupchagee** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:05 pm

David Patton comes to mind. Good at NE, bad in DC, good again in NO.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:11 pm

yupchagee wrote:David Patton comes to mind. Good at NE, bad in DC, good again in NO.

i was thinking that too. the guy didn't forget how to play football when he arrived.

it almost proves the fact that FA's just come to washington to get paid. :oops:

more front office blunders

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:13 pm

yupchagee wrote:David Patton comes to mind. Good at NE, bad in DC, good again in NO.

His stats last year: "54 catches for 792 yards and three touchdowns in his first season in New Orleans." I'm going to have to agree with that one. You don't say otherwise, but I'm assuming you're not arguing this alone makes GSPODS point. I'm refuting his portraying it as it's routine that players leave us and get dramatically better, per his statement "good number of players left the Redskins and suddenly improved drastically with another team".

GSPODS · Post by **GSPODS** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:13 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
What do you even think you answered here?

Players who leave one team as backups or average starters and go start for another team or make ProBowls, as some of those names did, or the Hall Of Fame, as a few of those names might do, do qualify as drastic improvement, in my mind. Front Office FUBARs would be another term.
A lot of other people got the general idea of the comment. Why nitpick every detail of every word? The Redskins front office has been declining to awful since Bobby Beathard left. It's to the point where some wonder if they can do anything right. Right, Hailskins666? One bad personnel decision after another. It's one thing to pass on someone who turns out to be good. It's another to have good talent and let it go because your front office doesn't know talent. The Redskins front office hasn't known talent in two decades or longer. And this season's Magic 8 Ball is saying, "Can't Tell. Try Again Later."

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:19 pm

GSPODS wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
What do you even think you answered here?

Players who leave one team as backups or average starters and go start for another team or make ProBowls, as some of those names did, or the Hall Of Fame, as a few of those names might do, do qualify as drastic improvement, in my mind. Front Office FUBARs would be another term.
A lot of other people got the general idea of the comment. Why nitpick every detail of every word? The Redskins front office has been declining to awful since Bobby Beathard left. It's to the point where some wonder if they can do anything right. Right, Hailskins666? One bad personnel decision after another. It's one thing to pass on someone who turns out to be good. It's another to have good talent and let it go because your front office doesn't know talent. The Redskins front office hasn't known talent in two decades or longer. And this season's Magic 8 Ball is saying, "Can't Tell. Try Again Later."

This isn't hard. I challenged a specific statement. I quoted the statement. You gave a list of names of which none apparently meet the criteria. Now you're hedging and trying to change what you were arguing. Who specifically are you claiming improved suddenly and drastically? That means they were suddenly way better (you said DRASTICALLY) for the new team then for us. I'm just asking you to back up your own statement, again I quoted what I'm challenging. Are you admitting you can't? Did you make it up?

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:28 pm

i won't argue the FO comment. why does a little piggy like snyder, who (i don't know for a fact so check me if i'm wrong), i would bet the house on, has NEVER play a single down of organized football in his entire life, think he can come in and put a team together?

he has got to be the BIGGEST wannabe on the planet.

look at the draft record since he's been around. i'm too busy to dig up stats, but i'll bet the redskins are in the bottom quarter of the league for drafting impact players, at least for thier own team.

we just don't have the right people making decisions, imo.
nor do we have the ability to keep the right people around.

KazooSkinsFan · Post by **KazooSkinsFan** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:30 pm

hailskins666 wrote:i won't argue the FO comment. why does a little piggy like snyder, who (i don't know for a fact so check me if i'm wrong), i would bet the house on, has NEVER play a single down of organized football in his entire life, think he can come in and put a team together?

he has got to be the BIGGEST wannabe on the planet.

look at the draft record since he's been around. i'm too busy to dig up stats, but i'll bet the redskins are in the bottom quarter of the league for drafting impact players, at least for thier own team.

we just don't have the right people making decisions, imo.

And up until now you'd kept this view so well hidden. :wink:

Anyway, I consider that subjective still. I think a good business man can run an NFL team without having actually played football. I consider Snyder to be a TBD on that. Yes, he's made a lot of mistakes. He's gotten better. He's not good enough. Will he ever win? Well, if Jerry Jones and George Steinbrenner can he can. That doesn't mean he will.

But it was a specific claim PODS made I was challenging. The jury's still out on this one. But I don't see a long list of Skins who improved "suddenly" and "dramatically" when they left us. Though I'm sure everyone has a few, clearly not the claim that was being made.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:35 pm

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:i won't argue the FO comment. why does a little piggy like snyder, who (i don't know for a fact so check me if i'm wrong), i would bet the house on, has NEVER play a single down of organized football in his entire life, think he can come in and put a team together?

he has got to be the BIGGEST wannabe on the planet.

look at the draft record since he's been around. i'm too busy to dig up stats, but i'll bet the redskins are in the bottom quarter of the league for drafting impact players, at least for thier own team.

we just don't have the right people making decisions, imo.

And up until now you'd kept this view so well hidden.

Anyway, I consider that subjective still. I think a good business man can run an NFL team without having actually played football. I consider Snyder to be a TBD on that. Yes, he's made a lot of mistakes. He's gotten better. He's not good enough. Will he ever win? Well, if Jerry Jones and George Steinbrenner can he can. That doesn't mean he will.

But it was a specific claim PODS made I was challenging. The jury's still out on this one.

not disputing the original challenge at all.

just sick and tired or short fat man, and his raquetbll partner, as stated in just about every post i've made in the last year or so.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:43 pm

NC43Hog wrote:
hailskins666 wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:I'd add Brad Johnson to that list.
stephen davis......

that still pisses me off to no end.

Stephen was good (really good) before he left.

Casualty of the failed Spurrier Project.

He was more of a cap cut than Spurrier, but that was how they sold it.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:47 pm

I think we could go the other way quite easily. Players who came here and became dramatically worse.