GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH........

[tribeofjudah]

Jesse Ventura, ex-Navy Seal and wrestler is such a straight shooter these days. The man with the boa and make up, really makes sense:

click on the link and watch the video:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/se ... stions.htm

Ventura first stated that he had many unanswered questions about 9/11. The former Governor cited Operation Northwoods, a 1962 Joint Chiefs of Staff plan to stage terror attacks and kill American citizens to start a war with Cuba, as an example of how the U.S. government wanted to kill its own people and blame it on foreign enemies to justify war. Ventura found it painful, having dutifully served himself, that elements within the government would go to such barbaric and deceitful lengths to con its own populace into supporting militarism.

Ventura then raised the issue of the Gulf of Tonkin, citing recently released declassified information confirming that American ships were never attacked and the incident was manufactured in order to provide the entree to the Vietnam war. This was particularly unpalatable for Ventura because he joined as a Navy Seal on September 11 1969, fought in Vietnam and lost many friends there.

[KazooSkinsFan]

Jesse Ventura, ex-Navy Seal and wrestler is such a straight shooter these days. The man with the boa and make up, really makes sense:

click on the link and watch the video:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/se ... stions.htm

Ventura first stated that he had many unanswered questions about 9/11. The former Governor cited Operation Northwoods, a 1962 Joint Chiefs of Staff plan to stage terror attacks and kill American citizens to start a war with Cuba, as an example of how the U.S. government wanted to kill its own people and blame it on foreign enemies to justify war. Ventura found it painful, having dutifully served himself, that elements within the government would go to such barbaric and deceitful lengths to con its own populace into supporting militarism.

Ventura then raised the issue of the Gulf of Tonkin, citing recently released declassified information confirming that American ships were never attacked and the incident was manufactured in order to provide the entree to the Vietnam war. This was particularly unpalatable for Ventura because he joined as a Navy Seal on September 11 1969, fought in Vietnam and lost many friends there.

I don't know. The pathetic major parties have both shown a great ability to contort themselves like Houdini in rewriting history and with their bizarre interpretation of "facts." Witness the Democrats in Iraq in the former and the Republicans with Terry Scheivo in the latter.

But pre-meditated murder and staging incidents in advance isn't something that either party seems predisposed to do. I like Jesse for calling out the pathetic parties in the past for what they are. But accusations of intent in planning attacks is something I think we need some more facts for before I'd believe it of either party to maliciously stage events.

[RayNAustin]

KazooSkinsFan, I believe healthy skepticism is a good thing, and we should make up our own minds based on available information and not other people's opinions. That is the definition of good judgment, and open mindedness.

With that said, I'd encourage you and all others here to take the time to study the volumes of information readily available not only regarding 911, but also the vast historical data relating to government sponsored "false flag" operations to put all of the 911 "conspiracy theories" into proper context.

The trouble most people have with the idea that the government could be involved in 911 is that most people are not evil by nature and therefore have a hard time conceiving of such evil in others, including their leaders. This, coupled with a lack of historical information keeps us comfortably in the dark about how the real world (as opposed to our perceived world) actually operates. Only through the vast amount of alternative news sources will you get a more accurate picture, as the mainstream news is purely propaganda in nature. Though even alternative news sources cannot be trusted at face value alone. Reference, and cross reference, and cross reference again is in order before you can make an accurate determination of the trustworthiness of any information from whatever source.

I've been studying this subject for many, many years, and I can tell you what I think, but only you can decide what you should believe.

Forgive the rather voluminous post here...but please bare with me...it's important.

Historically speaking, we have volumes of evidence, including de-classified documents admitting our government's involvement (and many other governments) in false flag operations to further political agendas. The Gulf of Tonkin incident mentioned is just one example. Another is the "Northwoods" documents developed by the Pentagon in the 1960's and presented to JFK which outlined covert terrorist type operations to be conducted by elements of the US intelligence community to be blamed on Cuba and Castro to justify a Cuban invasion. The outlined operations included such things as the sinking of a US Navel vessel....the downing of a commercial airliner....the bombing of targets in US cities to be blamed on Cuba. There are many others I could list for you, but this will suffice to show that such things are not unprecedented, and actually took place not so long ago.

Now the more recent examples that should put things into perspective is the Bin Laden /911 event to justify the invasion of Afghanistan, followed closely by the claims of Iraq's WMD's. Clearly a proven lie (later explained and passed off as an intelligence failure) to gain support for the invasion and on going war in Iraq, for which over 4,000 US servicemen and women have died....tens of thousands injured and maimed, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed.

One can argue what the "real" motives were for invading Iraq....but the fact is clear there were no WMD's, no Nuke program, and consequently no immediate threat to us coming from Iraq that could justify military invasion, and the sacrificing of our serviceman's lives.

So if those politicians can sacrifice 4,000 Americans in uniform for a political agenda, why would it be such a stretch of the imagination to consider them capable of sacrificing 3,000 civilians to further that same agenda?

Consequently, your statement:

But pre-meditated murder and staging incidents in advance isn't something that either party seems predisposed to do

ignores a vast amount of historical evidence to the contrary.

In fact, the study of history will show that governments throughout time have been predisposed to all manner of crimes against the people for whom they swear allegiance to.

With regard to 911, I can say that it would take ten pages to outline the reasons why I'm certain that the official story is untrue. That doesn't mean I know what actually transpired, I just know that it is impossible for it to have happened as it has been told to us.

Better that you ask me, rather than me try to list all of those reasons.

But for starters, and putting 911 aside for a moment, I can honestly say that we have been indoctrinated from birth to adulthood in such a vast lie about most everything we take for granted as the truth, it's simply to much to digest in a short time. What I've discovered over 20 years cannot be communicated in an hour or a day, nor could you begin to accept any of it without the proper foundation, because, as they say, the truth is stranger than fiction.

For curiosity sake...and this is now just becoming known to some....fluoride in the water is not good for your teeth, and it's not good for you period. Neither is Nutrasweet safe as the FDA suggests. Chemical sunscreens? They don't prevent skin cancer, they cause it !! Vaccines are dangerous, and totally unnecessary except for the Billions in revenue generated for the drug companies. The list of lies we are told, and the things we believe are endless.

It would not be inaccurate to say that just about everything we have been taught to believe as truth, is in fact a huge pile of lies.

Curious now?

[tribeofjudah]

....a huge pile of what......?

I find it hard to resist the thought that thing like the Patriot Act are spoon fed to us as being for our own good and protection. It is NOT. Slowly but surely, they will chip away at our RIGHTS and this will lead to things like taking away our Religious freedoms (not only targets Muslims but what about Sabbath keepers?), our day of Worship (Sundays are known world wide as the day of rest, but TRULY it is SATURDAY or the SABBATH that is Biblically accurate)..... persecution of all kinds will pop up and it will be the end of days that Revelation talks about....if you believe in the good book.

What a tragic end to the beautiful world that we have come to know... World without End....perhaps that is what's NEXT.......?

[Countertrey]

This thread is infested with children who believe in fairy tales.

[RayNAustin]

This thread is infested with children who believe in fairy tales.

Correction: this country is filled with children who believe in fairy tales....

Like Fox News - Fair and Balanced - We report, you decide

Like Bill O'Liely, the no spin zone

Like the FDA protecting the consumer from bad food, bad drugs

Things like that maybe?

Look, it would serve you much better to educate yourself, instead of insulting people. Doing so only suggests that you are both ignorant and ill mannered.

But just for grins, what fairy tales are you refering to? Or are you simply going to be insulting without a real reason?

[Countertrey]

Look, it would serve you much better to educate yourself, instead of insulting people. Doing so only suggests that you are both ignorant and ill mannered.

Ill mannered? Perhaps. Sick of the idiots who jump on every conspiracy fantasy as gospel? You bet. Ignorant? Hey, I'm not the one buying into the conspiracy pablum. I have repeatedly had to listen to idiots claim that the mass murders that occured at the Pentagon were a government set up... this despite the fact that I have friends who witnessed events, who all have vivid memories.

I don't especially like ignorant clowns calling those people liars. They are too stupid to understand the physics, so, in their small minds, there must be more. They latch onto the nipple of the conspiracy, like a cantankerous breastfeeding baby... "ahhhhhhhh! Comfort! Finally, something my barren mind can understand!"

Fiction from the senile nub of Pierre Sallinger's treasonous mind. Yeah, that'll work! A fairy tale related by the powerful mind of Jesse "the Body" Ventura! Wow! If a professional wrestling governator SEAL said it, it must be true!!!

Frankly, I've had it with the stupidity.

Why not just apply Occham's razor?

Psychopathic hate spewing fundamentalist cult leader cons other hate spewing fundamentalists to murder thousands. Charlie Manson on a bigger scale...

Done.

But, Poor Austin. I have read enough of your "thoughts" to know that you are not eligible to lecture me.

case in point:

fluoride in the water is not good for your teeth, and it's not good for you period. Neither is Nutrasweet safe as the FDA suggests. Chemical sunscreens? They don't prevent skin cancer, they cause it !! Vaccines are dangerous, and totally unnecessary

You are absolutely entitled to your opinions... however, sometimes, it seems, the facts can get in the way (how unfortunate). I don't have to pretend that you have any credibility, just because you wish to spew.

[GSPODS]

Look, it would serve you much better to educate yourself, instead of insulting people. Doing so only suggests that you are both ignorant and ill mannered.

Ill mannered? Perhaps. Sick of the idiots who jump on every conspiracy fantasy as gospel? You bet. Ignorant? Hey, I'm not the one buying into the conspiracy pablum. I have repeatedly had to listen to idiots claim that the mass murders that occured at the Pentagon were a government set up... this despite the fact that I have friends who witnessed events, who all have vivid memories.

I don't especially like ignorant clowns calling those people liars. They are too stupid to understand the physics, so, in their small minds, there must be more. They latch onto the nipple of the conspiracy, like a cantankerous breastfeeding baby... "ahhhhhhhh! Comfort! Finally, something my barren mind can understand!"

Fiction from the senile nub of Pierre Sallinger's treasonous mind. Yeah, that'll work! A fairy tale related by the powerful mind of Jesse "the Body" Ventura! Wow! If a professional wrestling governator SEAL said it, it must be true!!!

Frankly, I've had it with the stupidity.

Why not just apply Occham's razor?

Psychopathic hate spewing fundamentalist cult leader cons other hate spewing fundamentalists to murder thousands. Charlie Manson on a bigger scale...

Done.

But, Poor Austin. I have read enough of your "thoughts" to know that you are not eligible to lecture me.

case in point:

fluoride in the water is not good for your teeth, and it's not good for you period. Neither is Nutrasweet safe as the FDA suggests. Chemical sunscreens? They don't prevent skin cancer, they cause it !! Vaccines are dangerous, and totally unnecessary

Just go away.

I thought I was educated until I read this. I wonder how it feels to have a chemical engineering degree, a medical degree, an agricultural and horticultural degree, radiology experience, and a degree in nuclear medicine or nuclear physics. I don't know how it feels, but I know what it smells like.

[Countertrey]

I assume you have a point?

[GSPODS]

I assume you have a point?

Yes. To know everything is a conspiracy, one would have to not only have the education in every field but also the practical experience in every field. Furthermore, one would have to conduct one's own research on every subject in question.

Point: There isn't enough time in one person's life to do all of the above.
Therefore, the conspiracy theories posted by RayNAustin are those of other persons, and not original conclusions based upon education, practical experience and research.

The five most important people to the advancement of human existence were only experts in one subject of research and spent their entire lives studying that one subject.

Why does everyone always want me to have a point?

[KazooSkinsFan]

Why does everyone always want me to have a point?

Well done! You pulled the rug from under me on a comment I made and deleted when I read this. I like being bested when it's by quality.

[KazooSkinsFan]

This thread is infested with children who believe in fairy tales.

Correction: this country is filled with children who believe in fairy tales....

Like Fox News - Fair and Balanced - We report, you decide

Like Bill O'Liely, the no spin zone

Like the FDA protecting the consumer from bad food, bad drugs

Things like that maybe?

Look, it would serve you much better to educate yourself, instead of insulting people. Doing so only suggests that you are both ignorant and ill mannered.

But just for grins, what fairy tales are you refering to? Or are you simply going to be insulting without a real reason?

You know in Trey and I you are arguing with two of the most anti-government nut jobs on the site. Well, at least I'm a nut job, but we're both definitely anti-government. That we're not seeing a shred of evidence in your posts other then what appears to be knee jerk belief based on wishful thinking should give you pause to do take yourself up on your offer of doing some real research to see that you are correct before inviting others to do so. I always like when people's support for their view is, "research it and you'll see I'm right!" What an intellectual post, NOT!

[GSPODS]

Why does everyone always want me to have a point?

Well done! You pulled the rug from under me on a comment I made and deleted when I read this. I like being bested when it's by quality.

Unlike most of the members of THN, I don't take myself, my posts, or this message board overly seriously. This is a way of passing the time discussing various issues. Sometimes posts require serious and factual information. More often than not, they don't. Most of the time posts only require opinion. Opinion alone will carry most threads for a very long time.
Opinion with any supporting evidence will carry a thread indefinitely.
Facts are often subjective to the person stating what they claim to be factual. And statistics can be manipulated to prove any point a person is attempting to make.

Is 2+2 = 4 a fact?
Is 2+2 = 4 a statistic?
Is 2+2 = 4 only a fact or a statistic because it is accepted as such by the masses?
Many "facts" have been proven incorrect over the course of time. Does that mean we should accept them until they are proven incorrect? Or does that mean we should challenge anything generally accepted as fact on the basis that, as much as humans like to think they have to have all the answers or will eventually have all the answers, the only true and absolute knowledge is in that we know nothing?

I'll take the true and absolute knowledge for $100, Alex.
I must say, for someone who never seems to have a point, I get one large number of responses to most of my posts.

Relative to this thread, and conspiracy theories aside, here is what I accept as fact. The Federal government is involved in far too many aspects of "We, The People", and most of those aspects are not enumerated in the Constitution, but rather derived from loose and false interpretation thereof. The Federal government in its entirety has failed to establish a prima facie case for its involvement in 95% of the areas in which its collective hands reach.

[RayNAustin]

Ill mannered? Perhaps. Sick of the idiots who jump on every conspiracy fantasy as gospel? You bet. Ignorant? Hey, I'm not the one buying into the conspiracy pablum. I have repeatedly had to listen to idiots claim that the mass murders that occured at the Pentagon were a government set up... this despite the fact that I have friends who witnessed events, who all have vivid memories.

OK, I was being overly kind. Ill mannered doesn't begin to describe you. But we do have one thing in common....I too am sick and tired of the small, weak minded idiots who will believe anything they are told by the talking heads at Fox News....incapable of forming a critical thought of their own. They/you are why we find ourselves in the freaking mess we are in. And yes you are exactly what you accuse me of....how ironic...or perhaps moronic would be more accurate.

I don't especially like ignorant clowns calling those people liars. They are too stupid to understand the physics, so, in their small minds, there must be more. They latch onto the nipple of the conspiracy, like a cantankerous breastfeeding baby... "ahhhhhhhh! Comfort! Finally, something my barren mind can understand!"

I don't especially care what you like or dislike.....but your words describe you better than anything I could come up with. Again, your blathering insult laden mouth is proof positive of a small, weak mind....not a single issue or fact can you address like an adult, so you resort to spewing insults instead, because that's all you have. Better you should unplug from the Tee Vee...wipe the drool from your chin, and start reading and listening to those who could enlighten you.

Fiction from the senile nub of Pierre Sallinger's treasonous mind. Yeah, that'll work! A fairy tale related by the powerful mind of Jesse "the Body" Ventura! Wow! If a professional wrestling governator SEAL said it, it must be true!!!

Here is just a small sample of thousands of highly credentialed professionals in engineering, aviation, academia, public service, law enforcement, and intelligence who have come forward to challenge the official fairy tale that you have "latched onto like a cantankerous breastfeeding baby...." The jig is up, and there is no way for you or anyone else to label these people idiots or nuts or tin foil hat types. We're talking about highly respected people of impeccable character and credentials from virtually every corner of society...ex-high ranking military and intelligence officials, pilots, engineers, architects, ex-high ranking government officials from the Reagan administration...heads of state from European countries, ex-CIA, ex-MI5, ex-US Treasury Secretary, and the list goes on and on.

You are the one who is out of touch with reality. And according to respected polls like zogby, the majority of the American people now consider the official story to be a lie and cover-up. You are in the tin foil MINORITY who still believe in Santa Claus and the Boogieman with a towel wrapped around his head. You'd better remove you head from your backside and listen up...

http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org/

http://www.ae911truth.org/

http://911scholars.org/

http://stj911.org/

http://911proof.com/7.html

Frankly, I've had it with the stupidity.

Why not just apply Occham's razor?

I couldn't agree more. But do you even understand Occam's razor? I doubt it.

Psychopathic hate spewing fundamentalist cult leader cons other hate spewing fundamentalists to murder thousands. Charlie Manson on a bigger scale...

Done.

Thought you were done. Done comes at the end.

But, Poor Austin. I have read enough of your "thoughts" to know that you are not eligible to lecture me.

case in point:

fluoride in the water is not good for your teeth, and it's not good for you period. Neither is Nutrasweet safe as the FDA suggests. Chemical sunscreens? They don't prevent skin cancer, they cause it !! Vaccines are dangerous, and totally unnecessary


You are absolutely entitled to your opinions... however, sometimes, it seems, the facts can get in the way (how unfortunate). I don't have to pretend that you have any credibility, just because you wish to spew.

Why would you say such a thing? You obviously don't believe a word of that, given your hate spewing diatribe condemning every word. But do enlighten me about the "facts".....or better yet, let's make it easy for you...choose just one SINGLE, SOLITARY, ISOLATED FACT.....JUST ONE FACT......YOU PICK IT.

Spare us all the insults, and address a single fact. Pretend to be an adult for 5 seconds.......since you have such a corner on the fact market, it should be easy to expose my stupidity....smart guy.

I assume you also take exception to the fluoride comment? Hmm? Remember my warning about opening your mouth and proving your short comings?

Even the FDA now admits (they've known for decades) that it is dangerous...though they spin it and simply require warning labels on toothpaste. Google "dangers of fluoride" or "new information about fluoride" and read the thousands of articles that your brilliant mind doesn't require. Do you know who popularized the use of fluoride? The Nazis. They fed fluoride to the prisoners in the concentration camps to make them passive and easier to handle and control. That should be your first clue as to why it's used here, today, even with the understanding of it's counter productive effects which are in direct contradiction to it's alleged purpose. Not only does it eat holes in your teeth, it eats holes in your brain....no *sh$t*.....and it lowers one's I.Q. over time. That would explain a lot....especially in your case. I suggest you get a water filter...you cannot afford any futher damage in that area, Sir.

Worse yet, the whole story of fluoride being good for your teeth is, and always has been a total sham, right from the start. This is not a case of mistake, or that of new science discovering an error. It actually damages your teeth (Fluorosis). It eats holes in the enamel of your teeth. It's been charted that in areas where the public water supply is treated with fluoride, there are more dentists per capita than in areas where there is no fluoride treatment of the water. This has been known for decades, and covered up by the FDA for years and years. If it weren't such a sad, disgusting testament to the depths of depravity for which we have sunk, it would be funny. Akin to suggesting that a teaspoon of rat poison per day will make you more healthy. A sick, disgusting joke.

And the same holds true for the other issues I mentioned. Instead of taking this as a clue that maybe....just maybe you don't KNOW EVERYTHING...thereby better educating yourself in order to better protect yourself and your familiy and friends by spreading this new-old-news, you spew insults. So be it. As the saying goes "there are none so blind as those who REFUSE to see".

Fine. Drink the fluoride....drink the diet coke....praise lord bush. Submit to authority, surrender your liberties so big brother can protect you from the boogieman.

It's probably not even your fault, so I don't hate you...I pity you. You've been chemically lobotomized, and psychologically castrated.....and the truth is too scary for you to consider for a moment. Because to do so you'd first have to admit that you don't know everything.....you'd have to come to terms with your own ignorance and gullibility. And that takes a big man to take such a journey.

Obviously, you aren't up to the task.

[tribeofjudah]

Lots to read.... "They're out to get us" and "the sky is falling"

Jesse Ventura for President! I really can't keep up with all you learned scholars on this board and it's all very interesting, so...............

Nothing further, your honor!

[Irn-Bru]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

[RayNAustin]

tribeofjudah, unfortunately, at least half of that is true. They really are out to get us, but as for the sky is falling...I'd rather believe the "Lie is falling". And it is. And that is my only purpose for saying what I say.

The encouraging news is that while we are witnessing an unprecedented escalation in the hubris of our high officials, exemplified by Dick Cheney when asked his thoughts about the 70% of American's wanting an end to the war, in which he responded " So...?", we are also witnessing a massive awakening of the public that has been asleep for decades. And their total arrogance and overt disregard for the will of their "subjects" will be their undoing. They are actually helping to awaken the masses by being so callous.

Past warnings such as what President Eisenhower issued in his farewell speech about the dangers posed by the military industrial complex and it's undue and dangerous influence that "exists and will persist", fell on deaf ears back then. But those ears are now perking up and paying closer attention, more than ever before.

There are still those who refuse to face reality and those who deny such realities, for whatever reason, be it ....cowardice...vested interests or what have you....but the good news is, they are slowly becoming the minority.

And I am a firm believer that truth ultimately trumps a lie, though too often not as quickly or as instantly as we might like. But it all comes out in the wash...and the liars and those who would do evil always lose in the end. I hope.

That doesn't mean we aren't going to experience a certain amount of pain along the way.

[RayNAustin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1KvgtEnABY

Nice injection of lighthearted distraction my friend.

And thanks for the earlier support and for seeing where I'm coming from.

[RayNAustin]

That was one scary fellow in real life, btw. Left to his own devices, none of us would likely be around right now. Bombs away Lemay as he was known wanted desperately war with the Soviet Union.

I understand that Lemay suggested that we could win a nuclear war, and only suffer an acceptable 20-30 Million casualties, while wiping out the USSR completely...200 Million Russian civilians, give or take.

What a guy....only 20 or 30 Million dead American citizens? @00 Million Russian civilians? 230 Million human beings? What were they waiting for?

Proof that their are dangerous psychopaths who reach positions of power. In fact, it was the rule versus the exception during the JFK-LBJ era at the Pentagon. JFK was the voice of reason which was why he had to go.

[tribeofjudah]

Teddy Roosevelt would have been the right man for right now! JFK, too, would see to it that our Liberty and Freedom is paramount, above all.

Teddy Roosevelt Quotes

1. "Speak softly and carry a big stick. You will go far. "(A West African Proverb)

2. "To educate a man in mind and not morals is to create a menace to society."

3. "A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends on the character of the user."

4. "Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

5. "I took the Canal Zone and let Congress debate; and while the debate goes on, the canal does too."

6. "If you could kick the person in the pants responsible for most of your trouble, you wouldn't sit for a month."

7. "Nine-tenths of wisdom consists of being wise in time."

8. "The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as the most brutal warmonger."

9. "The unforgivable crime is soft hitting. Do not hit at all if it can be avoided; but never hit softly."

10. "When they call roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer "present" or "not guilty".

Who will be our next fearless leader? My confidence rest with none of them.....

[KazooSkinsFan]

Unlike most of the members of THN, I don't take myself, my posts, or this message board overly seriously

Um...yeah. Isn't it funny the people who need to tell you they don't take things overly seriously are almost always the ones who do?

[GSPODS]

Unlike most of the members of THN, I don't take myself, my posts, or this message board overly seriously

Um...yeah. Isn't it funny the people who need to tell you they don't take things overly seriously are almost always the ones who do?

I post this:

Unlike most of the members of THN, I don't take myself, my posts, or this message board overly seriously. This is a way of passing the time discussing various issues. Sometimes posts require serious and factual information. More often than not, they don't. Most of the time posts only require opinion. Opinion alone will carry most threads for a very long time.
Opinion with any supporting evidence will carry a thread indefinitely.
Facts are often subjective to the person stating what they claim to be factual. And statistics can be manipulated to prove any point a person is attempting to make.

Is 2+2 = 4 a fact?
Is 2+2 = 4 a statistic?
Is 2+2 = 4 only a fact or a statistic because it is accepted as such by the masses?
Many "facts" have been proven incorrect over the course of time. Does that mean we should accept them until they are proven incorrect? Or does that mean we should challenge anything generally accepted as fact on the basis that, as much as humans like to think they have to have all the answers or will eventually have all the answers, the only true and absolute knowledge is in that we know nothing?

I'll take the true and absolute knowledge for $100, Alex.
I must say, for someone who never seems to have a point, I get one large number of responses to most of my posts.

Relative to this thread, and conspiracy theories aside, here is what I accept as fact. The Federal government is involved in far too many aspects of "We, The People", and most of those aspects are not enumerated in the Constitution, but rather derived from loose and false interpretation thereof. The Federal government in its entirety has failed to establish a prima facie case for its involvement in 95% of the areas in which its collective hands reach.

And all you comment on is the first sentence? That's not like you, Kaz.

[Countertrey]

Here is just a small sample of thousands of highly credentialed professionals in engineering, aviation, academia, public service, law enforcement, and intelligence

And, yet, you still expect to be taken seriously! It's on the internet! It has it's own websites! It MUST be true!!!!

You didn't happen to note how many of the "articles" were without credit? How about how many were by the same author? How about those that were by known nuts?

Didn't think so... I'm sure it wouldn't help your cred to actually vet the web sites you use.

[Fios]

I'll take death!

[Countertrey]

I'll take death!

You'll have to settle for a frozen pizza.