Question for the Fairweather?

[The Hogster]

I have a question for those admitted fairweather fans that say that we have no chance at making the playoffs and have given up hope?

If you give up on the season after 10 games, then when do you get back on the bandwagon??

A) Right after the season.
B) After the NFL Draft
C) When Free Agency starts.
D) When Pre-Season Starts.
E) When the next season starts?

I am just curious because I wonder what you all do when you are "off the wagon". All that free time. Do you just pick another team and hope for them? If you wait till pre-season or the season, then in all reality you spend a grand total of about 2 and 1/2 months as Redskins Fans. Wow, 2 and 1/2 months per year?

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

How about when we make the playoffs and beat legitimate teams instead of the 49'ers and Eagles without Owens????

Or how about when we simply just "compete" instead of getting gored by the Giants???

Is this too much?

[The Hogster]

I guess the, Cowboys (7-3 NFC East leaders), Seattle Seahawks (8-2) best record in NFC, and the Bears (7-3) just handled the Panthers are all examples of "illegitimate" teams.

[Mursilis]

I guess the, Cowboys (7-3 NFC East leaders), Seattle Seahawks (8-2) best record in NFC, and the Bears (7-3) just handled the Panthers are all examples of "illegitimate" teams.

There's no question we've beaten GOOD teams, but then why do we lose to the crappy ones (like the Raiders), and why did we score -0- against the Giants' sad defense? I'm reminded of the '03 season when we beat the Pats, and they went on to the Super Bowl and we went on to 5-11. That's always the story of the 'skins the last 5 or so years - decent talent which has always seemed to underperform. Good teams are consistently good.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I guess the, Cowboys (7-3 NFC East leaders), Seattle Seahawks (8-2) best record in NFC, and the Bears (7-3) just handled the Panthers are all examples of "illegitimate" teams.

I'm certainly not a fair weather fan but when the baby is ugly you have to call it ugly. If anything this team is getting worse instead of improving on a weekly basis like we had hoped for.

After the first 3 games of the season we sat at 3-0 and everybody was happy. But in reality we could have easily lost all three of these games. I think maybe all of us including myself got a bit too excited about this team realistically being a playoff caliber team. Teams who go to the playoffs find a way to WIN the close games unlike the Skins who seem to always find a way to LOSE it. See the Tampa Bay game for a good example of this.

The offense has been up and down this year. One game it seems they can't be stopped (Tampa Bay) and the next we can't move the ball at all (Raiders). I mean come on guys our offense made the Raiders D look like the 85 Bears yesterday. I think maybe Brunnell has blown his load. I think the guy may just be getting tired. If you remember correctly at the beginning of the year he looked great and was throwing darts. His passes now seem to be flat.

The defense has had two problems throughout the entire year. the first one being the inability to stop the big play. The second problem they have had is the lack of a pass rush. I have never seen a team this poor when it comes to pressuring the qb. I know we have been missing Griffin for a few weeks now and I'm sure that makes a difference but how big of a differnce maker is he?

So feel free to flame away if you must. I'm just telling it the way I see it. Perhaps those of us that you call fair weather fans just see things for what they are and don't look at the Redskins with blinders on.

[The Hogster]

There is a difference between being realistic and giving up on the team with 6 games to go. We have lost two close games lately, but overall we are 3-3 in games decided by 3 points or less this year. So your comment that we "always" lose the close games is pessimistic at best.


If this were week 14 and the Skins were indeed out of it, then you would have ground to stand on, but until then you can't throw away the year just yet.

I am not guaranteeing the playoffs, but I am not giving up either.

Ironic, a guy like you would probably have criticized Randy Moss last year when he walked off the sideline with 30 seconds left..but you're doing the same thing...as a matter of fact you're giving up in the 3rd quarter of the season. So if that's calling the baby ugly, then go right ahead.

At least when Moss left the field early, his team really didn't have much of a chance, but in this case we are in the hunt until we play ourselves out of it...all the fans need to do is support the team...if thats too much to ask then so be it.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

There is a difference between being realistic and giving up on the team with 6 games to go. We have lost two close games lately, but overall we are 3-3 in games decided by 3 points or less this year. So your comment that we "always" lose the close games is pessimistic at best.


If this were week 14 and the Skins were indeed out of it, then you would have ground to stand on, but until then all you can't throw away the year just yet.

I am not guaranteeing the playoffs, but I am not giving up quite yet.

Ironic, a guy like you would probably have criticized Randy Moss last year when he walked off the field with 30 seconds left..but you're doing the same thing...as a matter of fact you're giving up in the 3rd quarter of the season. So if that's calling the baby ugly, then go right ahead.

Nowhere in my previous post did I say I had given up on the team this year. As a matter of fact they still have a shot at the playoffs.Currently we are 2 games out of first and we have to play the Giants and the Cowboys again this year. I'm simply stating the things that I am seeing with this team. Do I not have the right to call things the way I see them? Although I am a huge fan does not mean I see everything through burgundy colored glasses.

I'm not "walking off the field with 30 seconds left" I'm just expressing the way I see things with this team. If you wish to call me a fair weather fan for doing so then so be it. Trust me I am a huge fan. I even purchased the Sunday Ticket on satellite just to be able to see the game yesterday.

[The Hogster]

I am not doubting that you are a fan, this post is directed more so to people who jump on and off the wagon, maybe you are not a part of that group, but trust me there are some here.

I hate when people say that "Burgundy and Gold" glasses crap. I criticize the team just like the next guy.

We need a Pass Rushing DE
We need better play from our Tackles (see other thread)
We need to improve at the TE position
We need better play from Walt Harris

These are criticisms, but does that mean that I think we don't have a chance (like some others) no.

It's pretty easy to be a fan. Stessful, but really all we have to do is watch a team we love play a game we love.

While you are not a 'fair-weather' fan, there are some out there and I am directing this more to them.

[SkinsfaninNJ]

I am not doubting that you are a fan, this post is directed more so to people who jump on and off the wagon, maybe you are not a part of that group, but trust me there are some here.

I hate when people say that "Burgundy and Gold" glasses crap. I criticize the team just like the next guy.

We need a Pass Rushing DE
We need better play from our Tackles (see other thread)
We need to improve at the TE position
We need better play from Walt Harris

These are criticisms, but does that mean that I think we don't have a chance (like some others) no.

It's pretty easy to be a fan. Stessful, but really all we have to do is watch a team we love play a game we love.

While you are not a 'fair-weather' fan, there are some out there and I am directing this more to them.

Well I will use rose colored glasses in this case.

I agree with you on our list of needs. I think a pass rushing DE should be our top priority. We have to find a way to pressure the qb. I'm getting tired of seeing opposing quaterbacks have what seems like unlimited time to survery the field. As far as TE goes anybody would be an upgrade over Royal. The guys is horrible in all aspects of the postion. He can't block our catch which makes him pretty much useless. Over the last couple weeks I have noticed that the majority of the passes our opponents have been completed to Walt Harris side.

I still have hope for this team making the playoffs but with each week that passes and with every loss our chances lessen drastically. We need to handle our business and take care of home field advantage this week. We let one get away from us against the Raiders.

Finally I would like to call for an end to all the ref bashing. Hello people, the officials don't have a vendetta against the Skins. They make horrible calls against every team on a weekly basis. We need to play better, this will ensure that a bad call by the officials does not make the difference between winning and losing.

[1niksder]

I have a question for those admitted fairweather fans that say that we have no chance at making the playoffs and have given up hope?

Some fans who say we have no chance to make the post season aren't always fairweather fans. Sometimes it's fans that feel it's better to cushion the fall, or get that where have I seen this before attitude. Why do we call them fairweather fans? The sun is always shining when they are on the Bandwagon.

If you give up on the season after 10 games, then when do you get back on the bandwagon??

A) Right after the season.
B) After the NFL Draft
C) When Free Agency starts.
D) When Pre-Season Starts.
E) When the next season starts?

I am just curious because I wonder what you all do when you are "off the wagon". All that free time. Do you just pick another team and hope for them? If you wait till pre-season or the season, then in all reality you spend a grand total of about 2 and 1/2 months as Redskins Fans. Wow, 2 and 1/2 months per year?

OK if they can answer options A-B-C-D or E that would mean not only did they give up on the Skins but also the 2005 season. (I'll call this group 1) Now if the pick another team then I give that group a name too ( I can't say what I call them in HogWash). It seem to me that group 1 really hasn't gotten off the bandwagon but more or less jumped on the trailer BH had CLL hook up
As far as those who's name we can't call, we'll have to talk to RiC and find out how they got on in the first place.

Here's a good follow up question... Do we really care what they do once the jump off?

Better Question... Why is Chris stopping to let them off?

[die cowboys die]

Ironic, a guy like you would probably have criticized Randy Moss last year when he walked off the sideline with 30 seconds left..but you're doing the same thing...as a matter of fact you're giving up in the 3rd quarter of the season. So if that's calling the baby ugly, then go right ahead.

At least when Moss left the field early, his team really didn't have much of a chance, but in this case we are in the hunt until we play ourselves out of it...all the fans need to do is support the team...if thats too much to ask then so be it.

randy moss being on the field makes a big difference as to whether his team wins or not. whether we, as fans, believe the team will make the playoffs, has absolutely no possible effect on the team's chances of winning.

even those of us who are reticent to hold on to hope, are still watching the games and cheering like crazy, secretly hoping we can pull it out. but we're not going to be excited or confident that we WILL pull it out. we criticize the team and dismiss any chance we have, as a way of dealing with our grief.

[cvillehog]

We are at the point now where our chances are increasingly leaning towards the "mathematical" column and not the "practical" column. If pointing that out makes someone a fairweather fan, then you are going to be disappointed by a lot of your fellow fans. Some people like to put their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la" and others like to point out our falling probability of reaching the post-season. When those two groups get together, they can have what is known as a discussion. That is, until one group decides they have the only proper outlook and everyone else must not really be a fan.

[The Hogster]

We are at the point now where our chances are increasingly leaning towards the "mathematical" column and not the "practical" column. If pointing that out makes someone a fairweather fan, then you are going to be disappointed by a lot of your fellow fans. Some people like to put their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la" and others like to point out our falling probability of reaching the post-season. When those two groups get together, they can have what is known as a discussion. That is, until one group decides they have the only proper outlook and everyone else must not really be a fan.

Well there is a difference between these three statements.

1) The Skins will NOT make the playoffs, so let's fire Gibbs, sign Bob Stoops...blah, blah.

2) This loss will make it difficult for the Skins to make the post season.

3) If this team continues to play like this, we will not make the playoffs.

There is a difference between these three statements. I don't think anyone will argue with 2) and 3). That is stating the obvious, the more you loose the more 'difficult' it is to make the playoffs.

The problem is with the people who make statements like #1) and then recoil and defend themselves as rational people. As of right now, we are in the hunt. Unless you have some magic calculator, you don't know what the odds are we make the playoffs. So the statements like #1 rub us the wrong way.

Until fairweather fans learn the difference between being critical and predicting failure you will always wonder why people call you that. You have never heard me say "we will definitely go to the playoffs" but you also wouldn't hear me say "we definitely will not" because we don't know for sure yet.

So criticize away, I'll join in, but don't try and convince me to stick a fork in the season yet just because you don't believe anymore.

[redskingush]

I don't think anyone wants to give up but I don't care how hardcore we fans might be, It is not looking good for the skins. 2 Out with 6 to go.
11/27 vs San Diego(6-4)
12/4 @ St. Louis (4-6)
12/11 @ Arizona (3-7)
12/18 vs Dallas (7-3)
12/24 vs NY Giants (7-3)
1/1 @ Philadelphia (4-6)

I really don't see any reason we can't win 6 in a row. at 11-5 were in but one loss and 10-6 , we could be on the outside. We need everyteam in the race (Dallas, NYG, Atlanta, Tampa Bay,Chicago and Minnesota to lose evry possible time. Its not going to be easy.

[cvillehog]

We are at the point now where our chances are increasingly leaning towards the "mathematical" column and not the "practical" column. If pointing that out makes someone a fairweather fan, then you are going to be disappointed by a lot of your fellow fans. Some people like to put their fingers in their ears and sing "la la la" and others like to point out our falling probability of reaching the post-season. When those two groups get together, they can have what is known as a discussion. That is, until one group decides they have the only proper outlook and everyone else must not really be a fan.

Well there is a difference between these three statements.

1) The Skins will NOT make the playoffs, so let's fire Gibbs, sign Bob Stoops...blah, blah.

2) This loss will make it difficult for the Skins to make the post season.

3) If this team continues to play like this, we will not make the playoffs.

There is a difference between these three statements. I don't think anyone will argue with 2) and 3). That is stating the obvious, the more you loose the more 'difficult' it is to make the playoffs.

The problem is with the people who make statements like #1) and then recoil and defend themselves as rational people. As of right now, we are in the hunt. Unless you have some magic calculator, you don't know what the odds are we make the playoffs. So the statements like #1 rub us the wrong way.

Until fairweather fans learn the difference between being critical and predicting failure you will always wonder why people call you that. You have never heard me say "we will definitely go to the playoffs" but you also wouldn't hear me say "we definitely will not" because we don't know for sure yet.

So criticize away, I'll join in, but don't try and convince me to stick a fork in the season yet just because you don't believe anymore.

Well, being as how I've never said anything even close to resembling #1, you can removed me from your list of "fairweather" fans. I had assumed this thread was not about SKINS_DOMIN8 because there is not only an entire other thread about him, but to be considered fairweather, I would think you'd have to think something positive at some point. The way I see it, this thread is about numbers 2 and 3 on your list. If not, why is it here? If so, what is your point?

Is it possible to make the playoffs being 5-5 at this point? Sure! Anything is possible.

Is it probable that we will make the playoffs? No! It is improbable, and increasingly so.

Is the season a failure if we don't make the playoffs? I don't know. Probably not, if this season helps us to build towards a championship team. Of course, you have to understand where your fellow fans are coming from when they have doubts as to the long-term prospects of this particular roster of players and coaches. We have a very high-paid coaching staff, and I'm sure many fans wonder if any of them will be wooed away with head coaching jobs. Also, the salary cap situation is a complete unknown at this point the way negotiations are going between the NFL and the NFLPA.

Additionally, I think you are (once again) being extremely liberal with the "fairweather" and "bandwagon" labels. All I've done is (rightly) point out how dumb these kinds of posts are, and I get slapped with that label.

[Mursilis]

Bottom line is, I (and hopefully everyone here) want the Redskins to win the next game and every game after that. Every victory is thrilling to me and every loss is pure pain. That means I'm a fan, and I don't listen to others around here who insist on spinning everything as if the Redskins can do no wrong. Gibbs could cut the whole roster and field a Pee-Wee League team, and some people would claim it's pure coaching genius - "Those little kids are going to be so hard to tackle! Hello Super Bowl!!"

[runbillo]

I don't think anyone wants to give up but I don't care how hardcore we fans might be, It is not looking good for the skins. 2 Out with 6 to go.
11/27 vs San Diego(6-4)
12/4 @ St. Louis (4-6)
12/11 @ Arizona (3-7)
12/18 vs Dallas (7-3)
12/24 vs NY Giants (7-3)
1/1 @ Philadelphia (4-6)

I really don't see any reason we can't win 6 in a row. at 11-5 were in but one loss and 10-6 , we could be on the outside. We need everyteam in the race (Dallas, NYG, Atlanta, Tampa Bay,Chicago and Minnesota to lose evry possible time. Its not going to be easy.

Greetings from NYC: When we beat the Chargers this week and the Cowboys and Giants lose we will be 1 game back with a home game left against both teams. We are not out of the hunt yet!

[old-timer]

I've been watching the skins since George Allen came to DC. Back when the proportion of time watching NFL games was 90% game and 10% commercials. I don't know if anyone has done a study but nowadays it seems like it's 50-50. Need I mention all the nitpicking penalties that make these games increasingly hard to watch? Free agency, which has totally changed the nature of the game, in many ways for the way worse, to the point where there is so much parity that games more and more hinge on poor officiating calls?

I'd love to stop watching the skins. But the team gets in your blood after awhile. So I still watch.

Gibbs is doing as well as can be expected as coach, and I think he'll get us to the NFC Championship next year if not the Super Bowl. This year is a good step forward, but realistically the last t0 games have pointed out some serious deficiencies on this team - DE, WR, and O-line. It doesn't matter if we get to the playoffs, because this team is simply not strong enough this year to go past round 1. This is realism, not fair-weatherism. Gibbs is a great coach, and will address the deficiencies in the off-season and we will be stronger next year. Expecting too much of this team just ruins what enjoyment there is. Focus on the good things, we beat the Eagles and the Cowboys for the first time in years. Chris ey and Santana Moss are absolutely fantastic players, a joy to watch.

Rest assured, I will still be watching in the 4th quarter of the Eagles game, regardless of what our record is.

[redskingush]

Rest assured, I will still be watching in the 4th quarter of the Eagles game, regardless of what our record is.

me too

[REDEEMEDSKIN]

Greetings from NYC: When we beat the Chargers this week and the Cowboys and Giants lose we will be 1 game back with a home game left against both teams. We are not out of the hunt yet!

Greetings from DC: I like the way you're talking, bro. Keep the faith. We'll discuss our failure to make the playoffs, IF we fail to make them. Until then, we have as good a shot as anyone in our division, other than the Iggles, of course.

[RayNAustin]

Unfortunately, many of the problems pointed out are true, however painful that might be.

The truth is, we could be 8-2 right now, but we could also be 3-7.

I see both the offence and defense as being too inconsistent to clearly blame either. As for defense, it's clearly middle of the road at this point. We give up too many big plays; we're last in take aways, 16th in points allowed, and we've allowed too many 4th quarter drives with the game on the line. We have ZERO pass rush from the front 4, so everyone looks like John Elway against our injured secondary. Much of this I believe stems from an arrogant coaching philosophy....we thought we could let Antonio Peirce go without a problem, and we limit Arrington's play time to certain "packages". Sean Taylor, and Arrington should be utilized more (like LT did for the old Giants)since we have NO PASS RUSH from the front 4. What a waste to have these guys dropping back into coverage. Bottom line is, nobody scored more than 28 points against us last year, and only 4 times all year did we give up 20+. This year weve given up 36 points twice in the last 4 games, and the offense has been awol twice.

On offense, the big surprise this year was Moss and Brunell, but the opposing teams have figured it out, and now they play two deep, and double Moss. Top that off with an offensive line that can't pass protect even without a blitz and there you have it. Brunell has played well this year, and excellent when he's had time to pass, but too often, he doesn't have time and that falls squarely on the O-line not pass blocking. And could someone please tell me why???? is Jacobs still on this team? Or better yet, ask the coaches why they kept throwing to him deep when it was clear he couldn't get an inch of seperation against man coverage. This knucklehead make everyone look like Dion Sanders.

Sundays game plan was awful. Play calling was inexplicable. When the defense takes away the deep routes, you've got to punish them with quick slants and screens until they're forced to bring those safeties back up to stop it. What do we do? We kept throwing bombs to Jacobs who was so covered he couldn't even see the ball much less catch it. We don't seem to have a clue, and can't seeem to make adjustments (like Gibbs was famous for years ago).

Overall, we're lucky to be 5-5 given that we've scored 1 point less than we've allowed, and we're dead last at -13 for turnovers. Frankly, Green Bay at 2-8 has about the same Points for/points against numbers as the Redskins. And all the other stats aside, that's what it's all about.

The Raiders played pathetically against us and still won the game. Why? Because we turn the ball over 3-4 times a game; we throw 4 incomplete bombs to Jacobs as he's smothered in coverage; we allow Jordan to run uncovered in the flat (even though he's their leading reciever) and we manage to score zero touchdowns by the offense

Do we still have a chance? Sure. But as I see it, we've been getting worse and not better these past 7 games (2-5) after a 3-0 start. We need to go 5-1 for the rest of the year to sniff the playoffs, and that is a long shot playing the way we're playing.

This getting worse thing is a bad, bad sign. And if I hear "everybody was fighting their guts out, out there...." much more....

.

[The Hogster]

C-Ville what is the point of your post? I said plain as day that its cool to criticize the team...here goes.

We need a pass rushing DE...its embarrassing that our DE's can't even accidentally sack anybody.

Our O-Tackles are over rated and over paid. They are being outplayed severely by averge DE's like Umenyora and Jared Allen who have made the Pro-Bowl Ballot going against us.

Derrick Dockery is a mound of doo doo.

Walt Harris is a nickle corner at best...we need better play from them...NO PICKS by a corner is unacceptable.

Gibbs should have run the ball more with the lead against Oakland.

Greg Williams is stubborn and his schemes have largely been figured out,he must adjust.

Other than that we are headed in the right direction.

All Im saying is that although we are 5-5 we have several division games and conference games left, so the playoffs are not far fetched.

Be patient chaps...we'll have all offseason to talk about next year..quit getting ahead of yourself.

We have the opportunity to hand each team in the division a loss. All we need is one of those teams to lose another game. Unlikely...who knows yet..I don't have a DWEEB_-O-METER that tallies up the probability of that happening. Just be patient.

[cvillehog]

C-Ville what is the point of your post? I said plain as day that its cool to criticize the team...here goes.

We need a pass rushing DE...its embarrassing that our DE's can't even accidentally sack anybody.

Our O-Tackles are over rated and over paid. They are being outplayed severely by averge DE's like Umenyora and Jared Allen who have made the Pro-Bowl Ballot going against us.

Derrick Dockery is a mound of doo doo.

Walt Harris is a nickle corner at best...we need better play from them...NO PICKS by a corner is unacceptable.

Gibbs should have run the ball more with the lead against Oakland.

Greg Williams is stubborn and his schemes have largely been figured out,he must adjust.

Other than that we are headed in the right direction.

All Im saying is that although we are 5-5 we have several division games and conference games left, so the playoffs are not far fetched.

Be patient chaps...we'll have all offseason to talk about next year..quit getting ahead of yourself.

We have the opportunity to hand each team in the division a loss. All we need is one of those teams to lose another game. Unlikely...who knows yet..I don't have a DWEEB_-O-METER that tallies up the probability of that happening. Just be patient.

The only thing wrong with your post is that it has nothing to do with this thread.