Ramifications of Sean Taylors actions.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:56 pm

I realize that there are other threads on Sean Taylors recent actions, but I made this a new one, because I wanna talk about it from a different perspective. His contract, and what his future as a football player is. In other words, what are the long term implications of his "issues" from the past year.

This is my take on Sean Taylor, and first and foremost, we must all recognize that Taylor is innocent until proven guilty.

I think Sean Taylor has started to show character flaws. I think, and I would love to know what Gibbs and Williams think, but I believe Taylors disadvantages are starting to outweigh his advantages. His talent is unquestioned, but up to now, we've sort of had this culture of chalking his transgressions down to inmaturity. IMO, it's reached the point that they are no longer acts of inmaturity, but rather a "character flaw", and one that shows no signs of changing for the better.

I have a feeling we've seen the last of Sean Taylor as a viable option for the Washington Redskins. BUT, the Redskins do have the advantage in terms of his value as a NFL football player. Seeing as he signed a contract, we have the rights to him. We basically control who, or even IF, he'll be playing football next year and the year after. I don't think Gibbs is going to want Taylor on the team anymore. BUT, if Taylor does report to camp, he's got a lot of work to convince Joe Gibbs that he deserves superstar status. So, we could either demote him on the depth chart, which would prevent his value from increasing in terms of re-negotiating a contract. If he holds out, big deal! It's almost like I hope he does hold out, because we have an Ace card in that we own his rights, and can prevent him from going to another team.

This team can survive without Sean Taylor, and I think if Sean Taylor is going to be the Superstart that everyone envisioned him to be, he has a LOT of work to do in convincing people. That type of convincing can not happen overnight, and will more than likely take two seasons, if it's even possible.

Joe Gibbs and The Redskins have the upper hand as far as Sean Taylor the football player goes. As I said, I almost hope he does hold out. Right now, we're better off without him, and certainly, the biggest mistake we could make would be to re-negotiate his contract and pay him an outrageously high amount of money only to be a detriment to the team because of his character. I say let him hold out, let him lower his own value, both as a person and a player. Let him be the inmature person that he is, but the REDSKINS own the rights on him, and we can control where or if he plays. Just as re-negoiating his contract would be a mistake, so too would be allowing him to play somewhere else. What a predicament!! But, as I said, we (the Redskins) have the upper hand.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:00 pm

your 100% right

Punu · Post by **Punu** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:05 pm

Im sure you'll get a lot of mixed responses, but I gotta say I totally agree with ya JP. Very well Said...
It's a dillema, but we also have cards to play here...many options...
and lets confirm it was about the money first... not so sure anymore..

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:08 pm

If we trade him I would vomit. I hate that this has happened, but I would hate to trade him. I understand that Gibbs wants character guys, but at the same time, you can't expect every player on the roster to be holy rollers. Out of the whole team, the odds are going to be that at least one guy is going to be crazy. Although he gets into trouble off the field, from what I have seen, he hasn't talked smack on the Redskins organization like LaVar and Coles have done.

Look at the Ravens. They didn't trade Ray or Jamal. A lot of people think we can get by without Sean. That could be true, but I have no doubt that we could be great on the field with him, and alright without him. He provides a presense on the field that can't be replaced, unless we manage to get Roy Williams, Ed Reed, or Brian Dawkins. We all need to chill out and see what happens. Who knows? Maybe he was just at the wrong place at the wrong time.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:16 pm

Brandon also has a point, the guy is a high level player, who is a " playmaker", every superbowl team has one of these playmakers. But on the other hand, look at the patriots. and look how they are doing without any of these " bad " players

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:18 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:Brandon also has a point, the guy is a high level player, who is a " playmaker", every superbowl team has one of these playmakers. But on the other hand, look at the patriots. and look how they are doing without any of these " bad " players

The Patriots do have Rodney Harrison who is a playmaker.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:31 pm

^ not really man, how many people do you ssee wearing Rodney Harrison jerseys, how many commercials do yu see him in, how many articles do you read with him in it a day. He is rarely in the spotlight and doesnt cause trouble. Just like everyone on the patriots

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:36 pm

I would prefer we keep him and sit him rather than trade him and let him work against us.

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:37 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:^ not really man, how many people do you ssee wearing Rodney Harrison jerseys, how many commercials do yu see him in, how many articles do you read with him in it a day. He is rarely in the spotlight and doesnt cause trouble. Just like everyone on the patriots

My bad. I misread your original post. I thought you were saying the Patriots win SBs without playmakers.

WshSkins22 · Post by **WshSkins22** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:42 pm

Its ok I mean there has to be playmakers on a team, that is exactly why I love the return of Arrington, he is a another level of playmaker for hte defense who makes everyone better. Sean Taylor also makes the WHOLE defense better, covers a lot of ground. If Taylor cleans up his act, Bowen and Arrington get healthy, and Barrow gets healthy( pretty exiting), I have no doubt in my mind we will be better than the Ravens 2000 defense next year and may make history, because that would be one SICK defense

Brandon777 · Post by **Brandon777** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:44 pm

WshSkins22 wrote:Its ok I mean there has to be playmakers on a team, that is exactly why I love the return of Arringyon, he is a another level of playmaker for hte defense who makes everyone better. Sean Taylor also makes the WHOLE defense better, covers a lot of ground. If Taylor cleans up his act, Bowen and Arrington get healthy, and Barrow gets healthy( pretty exiting), I have no doubt in my mind we will be better than the Ravens 2000 defense next year and may make history, because that would be one SICK defense

I agree. I think with a healthy Arrington, along with Taylor and other players who were out last year, we could be an incredible defense.

weneedcharlesmann · Post by **weneedcharlesmann** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:21 pm

i also think it's important to remember that he's 22 and a 2nd year player. he's going to make idiotic mistakes. brett favre did it, lt did it, every cowboy star you can think of. character guys are a necessity for every team, but 1) let's not automatically assume that he can't be a character guy because of mistakes he made at 22 (if we did that, then i've got no shot of being an upstanding citizen, ever) and 2) all the character in the world does nothing without talent. it's not a one way street, you need both, and with someone like taylor, who has more talent than almost anyone to play the safety positon.

if we trade him, i know a lot of people on this site would be happy. and maybe the d next year would be still pretty good. but you know what? three years from now, when campbell is playing well as a starter, clinton portis is rushing for 1500 yds, and carlos rogers is picking off 7 balls a year, we're still going to look at our D and think of how much greater it could have been if we had kept, and worked with, Sean Taylor, who is a combination of Ed Reed (perhaps the best defensive player in the game right now) and Roy Williams. He could make our D one of the all time greats, and that translates into more and more super bowls.

oh, and rodney harrison is about as dirty as you come. not only has he been fined a ridiculous amount of times for dirty hits, he also brags about it, as he did before the super bowl. your point is well taken, but harrison is a bad example of a character guy.

BossHog · Post by **BossHog** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:39 pm

weneedcharlesmann wrote: if we trade him, i know a lot of people on this site would be happy. and maybe the d next year would be still pretty good. but you know what? three years from now, when campbell is playing well as a starter, clinton portis is rushing for 1500 yds, and carlos rogers is picking off 7 balls a year, we're still going to look at our D and think of how much greater it could have been if we had kept, and worked with, Sean Taylor, who is a combination of Ed Reed (perhaps the best defensive player in the game right now) and Roy Williams.

Not if he's in jail. :oops:

But I totally understand what you're saying and actually agree... especially since nothing but rumors and conjecture about the situation have surfaced.

But if there is substance, and if he continues down this same path... he could become an absolute poison and in my opinion, no amount of talent in the world is worth the cost to the team itself. Let's hope that isn't the case with Sean Taylor.

Personally, I haven't thrown him under the bus yet... but that doesn't mean that he gets a pass on everything he ever does. He's the ONLY one not at the OTA's... mandatory or not, that's a poor 'team' attitude. I've read everyone's opinion on whether it's relevant or not due to the 'voluntary' nature of the workouts... but let's not forget one important thing.

Everyone else is accounted for. That means everyone else is buying into the team concept and working together to try and improve. Everyone except Sean. I can't ignore that, and I'm sure Joe Gibbs can't either. I'm sick of being asked about it, I can't imagine how Joe feels being asked the same thing exponentially more. That isn't a team attitude. That's selfish. And eventually, even your teammates will run out of excuses for you and take it personally as well.

JPM36 · Post by **JPM36** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:45 pm

If we trade Taylor I'll be sick. He is the best player on the team. There's no way that management would do that.

Sean Taylor will be our starting FS when the Bears come to town.

Justice Hog · Post by **Justice Hog** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:27 pm

JPFair wrote:This is my take on Sean Taylor, and first and foremost, we must all recognize that Taylor is innocent until proven guilty.

Yes, in this regard you are correct.

However, I am sick and tired of having to say those same words over and over again about the same player because he keeps getting jammed up with the law.

Said it before and I'll say it again:

GROW UP SEAN!

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:59 pm

I wonder if some of you misinterpreted my post. The whole point that I was trying to make is that we DON'T trade Sean Taylor. To do so, in my opinion, is not only something that's not even on the radar, but also detrimental to the team. What I was trying to convey is that we have other options to deal with Taylor "in house" so to speak, that favor the Redskins as a team. . The fact that we have "options" is a sign, like I said, that the Redskins have the upper hand on Taylor. I too, am not ready to throw in the towel on him yet, but if he gets progressively worse with his attitude and his personal life, then Gibbs can and more than likely will do things to protect the Redskins. Joe Gibbs is smart enough not to trade him. But, since we "own" (for lack of a better term) Sean Taylor, he can focus on keeping him from being a distraction to the team, as well as reduce his ammunition (no pun intended) if he seeks a contract extension.

Sean Taylor is running out of excuses, and sooner or later no matter how old or young he is, he's going to have to show that he's maturing. I don't buy the "he's only 22 years old" argument anymore. There are a hell of a lot of other 22 year olds both in the NFL and out of it that don't make the inmature decisions that he's making, and has made. He's either capable of maturing or not. Although everyone is capable of improving both character and athletic abilities, he hasn't given one solitary indication that his first season woes were due to his age or his being thrown into the limelight. His first mistake was departing from the rookie symposium, and the erros of judgement both on and off the field have snowballed ever since then. How many times can we say "Oh, he's only 22 years old and he's going to make mistakes". Even if he is completely innocent of anything in this current situation, had he not been there, the press wouldn't be reporting about it now. In other words, if he voluntarily attended the OTA's, he wouldn't have been anywhere near whatever happened in Florida.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that Joe Gibbs won't let Taylor, one way or the other, dictate the morale of the team. Gibbs can only take so much of Taylors crap before he becomes a distraction to the team. Gibbs has worked with "character problems" before, and he'll make good decisions on how to deal with him. However he deals with it, will be best for the Redskins as a team. And, in this case, we have the upper hand. That's not always the case!

GibbSkins · Post by **GibbSkins** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:44 pm

i think that im getting sick of this crap from Sean...if it was a guy from another team ..would all of u guys be defending him this much?.. i think not...
whether he is guilty or not is not the point anymore..the fact that problems keep swirling around him( of his own making) is the point..
and to excuse it by saying hes only 22..is a load of crap...how many 22 year olds ( and younger) are serving in Iraq right now).. this guy is a punk!!!! and sould be treated as a punk..till he starts showing that he deserves to be treated like a superstar
i think as a punishment for being a punk with incredible talent he should be made to go through boot camp and serve a tour of duty in Iraq

Post by **admin** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:47 pm

GibbSkins... please remove the smilies from your signature. Please check the rules and regulations if you need clarification.

GibbSkins · Post by **GibbSkins** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:00 pm

sorry boss i didnt know that was a rule....

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:07 pm

I guess until the facts come out it is kind of hard to make any type of assumptions about his behavior. Isn't it entirely possible that this could me the media putting a spin on something not quite as bad or even close to as bad as it is in reality. Just a little premature to be wondering the ramifications of something we are not even sure is true or accurate.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:13 pm

Niki,

I think the media are definitely putting a spin on something to creat a story, but that's not what's at issue IMO. The fact is, that something happened in Florida and Sean Taylor was there. In my opinion, the real issue is the very fact that he was in Florida. He should be in Ashburn. Granted, he's not required to be, but if he was, the media couldn't put a spin on anything that happened in Florida. The media can creat a spin, but they can't create the Police confirming that Taylor is a "person of interest" in an incident. That much, we know for sure. The rest is all conjecture at this point. Bottom line: If it looks like a dog, smells like a dog, and acts like a dog, it probably is a dog.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:18 pm

I guess part of me just wants to believe that he's in Florida for a break. He had a decent rookie year but there was tons of controversy involved. Not all was his doing. Granted he is not coming off as the most mature guy in the world but sometimes things that happen out of our control change how we do things. Sean had a rough time adjusting to the media, he got a DWI, he was labeled a problem from the first game, and he didn't start right away. I am sure that is enough to put the best of us to the test. If he doesn't report for OTA's, while it is unforunate, it isn't the end of the world. If he fails to show for something he is required to show for then I will worry. Until then he's just acting like a kid whose blowing off steam after a rough start. I cannot say I wouldn't be tempted to do the same.

welch · Post by **welch** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:25 pm

I understand that Gibbs wants character guys, but at the same time, you can't expect every player on the roster to be holy rollers.

OK, I said this on one of the other Sean Taylor threads...so many threads...not enough memory cells anymore.

(a) Taylor is showing a pattern of behavior that might call for a different sort of professional help than NFL coaching. We can't say for certain, but there is a pattern.

(b) Taylor has hidden himself for almost six months. That's weird. It's weird when he doesn't return calls from Joe Gibbs.

(c) Who has he been hiding with? Doing what?

(d) Finally, a good character guy will beat a flaky super athlete every time. That's why the Redskins have three SB trophies. That's why this place is named after The Hogs, rather than Dexter Manley.

[Edit: well, I suspect it's why this is named after the Hogs...]

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:34 pm

If Sean is in shape and not incarcerated I see no reason why Gibbs and Co. can't deal with this young man and get him back on track.
Taylor has made our D much better but we can do without him if we must, but having him as a option is a plus.

Still nothing solid about what happened other than what ESPN is reporting every hour.

I did find a updated version of the story/rumor on one of the Cane boards.......

Supposed story...
Sean's Banche, 4 wheel vehicle, was stolen from his friends house, for a second time. I am guessing Seans friend had a clue as to who it was and went over to investigate matters more, maybe shot were fired, I dont know. Maybe he confronted them with pistols.
But Sean’s car was supposedly shot up with a numerous rounds.

Sean is wanted for questioning to the event.

If this is the case then maybe Sean is running with the wrong crowd, and this will be a quick fix.

If his car was shot up maybe he's the victim.

Sean has a lot of questions to answer AFTER Miami-Dade gets through with him.

NikiH · Post by **NikiH** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:38 pm

Hey niksder I'm having trouble believing a post with the words "shot up with a numerous rounds" in it. lol I'm not the best when it comes to grammar or spelling but that just screams teenager making stuff up.

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Ramifications of Sean Taylors actions.

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