Raiders get pick #26

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:53 pm

from the Jets for Doug Jolley and a 2nd rounder, either #38 or #47, not sure which.

Not to rub salt in,(well ok, maybe a little bit) but that's a heckuva lot less than a 1st, 3rd, and 4th.

Redskins4Life · Post by **Redskins4Life** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:04 pm

Eww what were the Jets thinking! Doug Jolley??!?! They definitely got a better deal than us.

portis26 · Post by **portis26** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:06 pm

We always overpay for everything.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:06 pm

Yeah, that is a lot less...

But I think the Jets really wanted a TE, and with us ahead of them, I think they knew that if Miller is there, we will take him. So I see the logic in that.
And Doug Jolley isnt too bad.

Now the Raiders can get a CB to replace Buchannon.

vife · Post by **vife** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:17 pm

Trust in gibbs.

portis26 · Post by **portis26** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:20 pm

I trust in Gibbs, but we overpaid on this one. Not saying whoever we select with 25 won't be good, just that we gave up too much for what that slot is worth.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:48 pm

We always overpay, its stupid.

I bet something good will come of this but I seriously doubt it will justify all we have lost.

No wonder Snyder and company are a laughing stock, I'd chump them too if I could.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:07 pm

What did we lose? a 3rd and a 4th? WHOOPTY-DOO.... you guys act like we just traded away our franchise.... We didn't have a decent TE nor a 2nd round pick to trade the Jets....and we have holes we need to fill.... We're suppose to wait till the 3rd round this year and the 4th round next year to fill them? Give me a break... then I'd have to listen to you all whine through another season....

There's obviously something there late in the first that Gibbs thinks will help improve our team.... I'll sacrifice a 3rd & 4th for that... they're not even hitting us in the same year...

We've had 2 playoff games in 12 years people... How much longer do you want to wait?

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:10 pm

We've had 2 playoff games in 12 years people? How much longer do you want to wait?

Boneheaded trades such as this one are one of the main reasons why we've only had 2 playoff games in the last 12 years.

vife · Post by **vife** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:14 pm

Trust in Gibbs.

I believe that he can get it done. He's got something in mind.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:15 pm

SkinzCanes wrote:
We've had 2 playoff games in 12 years people? How much longer do you want to wait?

Boneheaded trades such as this one are one of the main reasons why we've only had 2 playoff games in the last 12 years.

How's it boneheaded? You don't even know what we're getting or how they're going to perform.... get your head out of the sand and atleast know what your blasting before you blast it...

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:25 pm

C'mon BTP, you don't see this as a serious faux pas that is seriously detrimental to your team?

Value-wise, the Redskins front office put virtually the same worth on next year's first and fourth and this year's third as other teams put on Doug Jolley and pick #38.

You mention that you don't have a 2nd. If you wouldn't have jumped the gun last year and moved that far up for Cool

ey, you would. I realize Cool

ey had a decent season and may be something, but was he really worth a top 40 pick when he wasn't a prototypical TE and the Titans were the only other real concern?

Sometimes teams gamble, trying to strike first. Occasionally, the gamble pays off and a team reaps the benefits before the market swells, but sometimes a team totally misinterpets what the market's going to be and grossly overpays. The Redskins did the latter.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:26 pm

BringThePain! wrote:What did we lose? a 3rd and a 4th? WHOOPTY-DOO.... you guys act like we just traded away our franchise.... We didn't have a decent TE nor a 2nd round pick to trade the Jets....and we have holes we need to fill.... We're suppose to wait till the 3rd round this year and the 4th round next year to fill them? Give me a break... then I'd have to listen to you all whine through another season....

There's obviously something there late in the first that Gibbs thinks will help improve our team.... I'll sacrifice a 3rd & 4th for that... they're not even hitting us in the same year...

We've had 2 playoff games in 12 years people... How much longer do you want to wait?

That would be absolutely right...except we also gave up our 1st round pick next year. At that point it became over paying. I too think that it will end up being good for us in the long run, but the trade was really lopsided. Especially when the team picking one slot behind us got their pick for Doug fricking Jolley and a pick.

The trade is done, and I for one think we will maximize the value of having 2 first round picks. We probably can't afford to sign a 1st rounder next year anyways.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:32 pm

curveball wrote:C'mon BTP, you don't see this as a serious faux pas that is seriously detrimental to your team?

Value-wise, the Redskins front office put virtually the same worth on next year's first and fourth and this year's third as other teams put on Doug Jolley and pick #38.

You mention that you don't have a 2nd. If you wouldn't have jumped the gun last year and moved that far up for ey, you would. I realize ey had a decent season and may be something, but was he really worth a top 40 pick when he wasn't a prototypical TE and the Titans were the only other real concern?

Sometimes teams gamble, trying to strike first. Occasionally, the gamble pays off and a team reaps the benefits before the market swells, but sometimes a team totally misinterpets what the market's going to be and grossly overpays. The Redskins did the latter.

Would you not give up a third & fourth for a second? Jolley's not some slouch of a TE...the Raiders got Johnson, so Jolley was expendable.... all that I'm saying is... until we know what we got and how well they perform... we can't say if this was a bad trade or not... we won't know for a good 3 or 4 years...

and Hogster... we only swapped 1rst rounders, we didn't give one up... all we gave up was a 3rd and 4th to swap... and as I said, if the guy or guys we land with that pick turn out to be great... that 3rd and 4th ain't going to matter...

John Manfreda · Post by **John Manfreda** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:35 pm

The Jets know that we are drafting Heath Miller that is why they traded it. Now the NO.9 will be Mike Williams.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:40 pm

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:57 pm

BringThePain! wrote: Jolley's not some slouch of a TE...

Not a slouch? In the "year of the tight end", when numerous players set team records and even league TE records were set, Jolley only managed to throw up the incredible 27 catches for 313 yard.

Chris Baker, the Jets backup last season, put up numbers almost that good.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:00 pm

Not to wreck your mood BTP, but we did give up next year's 1st rounder.

We gave the Broncos this year's 3rd and next year's 1st and 4th.

We have no first round pick next year...and who knows what that pick would be...(i hope not lower than 25) but yeah man...we gave up the first next year too. To me...that was the pick that made this thing weird.

The article is on the Redskins site...we gave up 3 picks for 1.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:05 pm

curveball wrote:
BringThePain! wrote: Jolley's not some slouch of a TE...

Not a slouch? In the "year of the tight end", when numerous players set team records and even league TE records were set, Jolley only managed to throw up the incredible 27 catches for 313 yard.

Chris Baker, the Jets backup last season, put up numbers almost that good.

Wow... so the Jets then made a completely stupid trade since they got a player that basically they already have on their team... :hmm:

Come on... if you've seen Jolley play... you know the kids got some potential... if he didn't, the jet's wouldn't have traded for him.... trading from the 26th to the 38th is stupid for Jets if they didn't get something in return for it... they did in Jolley.... otherwise, with if your statement is true... the Jets made the bigger stupid trade because they moved back and got nothing in return for it...

C'fieldSkin · Post by **C'fieldSkin** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:06 pm

We didn't give up the first round pick, we gambled that we would be as good or better than the 25th pick next year, and we are taking that pick this year to speed the process of improving. We did that in exchange for the 3rd and the 4th. We did get something out of this, even if it wasn't as much as everyone wants.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:09 pm

The Hogster wrote:Not to wreck your mood BTP, but we did give up next year's 1st rounder.

We gave the Broncos this year's 3rd and next year's 1st and 4th.

We have no first round pick next year...and who knows what that pick would be...(i hope not lower than 25) but yeah man...we gave up the first next year too. To me...that was the pick that made this thing weird.

The article is on the Redskins site...we gave up 3 picks for 1.

Dude, I know we don't have a 1rst next year.... but we swapped more than we gave up... we get a second 1rst this year, Denver gets a second first next year.... we GAVE UP a 3rd & 4th.... we SWAPPED 1rst....

whether the 1rst will be better next year is moot.... because it could be better, worse or the same... who knows... what matters is can we turn that 25th pick into something that can help the team...

C'fieldSkin wrote:We didn't give up the first round pick, we gambled that we would be as good or better than the 25th pick next year, and we are taking that pick this year to speed the process of improving. We did that in exchange for the 3rd and the 4th. We did get something out of this, even if it wasn't as much as everyone wants.

somebody's understanding me....

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:21 pm

BringThePain! wrote:
curveball wrote:
BringThePain! wrote: Jolley's not some slouch of a TE...

Not a slouch? In the "year of the tight end", when numerous players set team records and even league TE records were set, Jolley only managed to throw up the incredible 27 catches for 313 yard.

Chris Baker, the Jets backup last season, put up numbers almost that good.

Wow... so the Jets then made a completely stupid trade since they got a player that basically they already have on their team...

Come on... if you've seen Jolley play... you know the kids got some potential... if he didn't, the jet's wouldn't have traded for him.... trading from the 26th to the 38th is stupid for Jets if they didn't get something in return for it... they did in Jolley.... otherwise, with if your statement is true... the Jets made the bigger stupid trade because they moved back and got nothing in return for it...

Or perhaps the Jets realized that there isn't alot of value in this draft and grabbed a mediocre player rather than risk it on someone with limited potential.

Are you telling me that as a team that needs a TE (Baker had better numbers than Royal), you'd give up a 1, 3, and 4 for Jolley and 38?

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:42 pm

curveball wrote:Or perhaps the Jets realized that there isn't alot of value in this draft and grabbed a mediocre player rather than risk it on someone with limited potential.

if there's limited potential, less than mediocre guys at 26... what's at 38? .... this is just you making up stuff now... if the Jets didn't believe Jolley was a good player... they wouldn't have moved back 12 spots for him....

curveball wrote:Are you telling me that as a team that needs a TE (Baker had better numbers than Royal), you'd give up a 1, 3, and 4 for Jolley and 38?

if what we needed was a TE to help this team get over the hump, and we were sitting at #25 and had no chance of getting a decent one in the draft in the first round... then I certainly would trade the #25, #76, and some #100+ for Jolley, & #38.... i'm getting a young vet with potential and improving my 3rd to a second and only giving up some pick in the 100's plus...

you can make it sound huge by saying a team is giving up a first.... but a first is much different in the 1-7 range... than it is in the 25-32 range...

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 11:45 pm

Curvey - You're mixing apples and oranges and throwing in some backward "logic"...this can be better discussed when the smoke clears late Saturday afternoon...the deals are not done yet - to think so is only wishful thinking by Redskin rivals..

curveball · Post by **curveball** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:22 am

Wysocki wrote:Curvey - You're mixing apples and oranges and throwing in some backward "logic"...this can be better discussed when the smoke clears late Saturday afternoon...the deals are not done yet - to think so is only wishful thinking by Redskin rivals..

To move to # 25 in this draft, the Redskins gave up # 76 in this draft, a # 1 in 2006 (to be at # 25 or higher, the Redskins would have to win a playoff game, something they haven't done this century) and a 2006 4th.

To move to #26 in this draft, the Raiders gave ups # 38 and a TE whose average season is 30 catches 300 yards.

The only apples and oranges I'm comparing is that the Redskins gave up a candy-apple red Corvette while the Raiders gave up a burnt-orange shag carpet to achieve virtually the same goal.