The Fatal Mistake

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

MARK BRUNELL

That is the reason why our team ended up as we are now. It was allright to go with him for a little but the coaching staff (JGibbs) hurt our performance by relying with him for too long. That B.S. about quarterback loyalty clearly did not help us at all.

No wonder JGibbs has already named Ramsey the QB because he ACTUALLY moves the team FORWARD. JGibbs hit the hammer on the head with everything else except for a man named Brunell. What are we to do with him now? I say....make him the QB coach because he knows what to do in different situations but cannot physically do it himself.

We need to pick up a QB to back up Ramsey and/or Hasselbeck.

Everyone talked about JGibbs as God...but we have found out that he does have tragic flaw(s) as all humans do.

[SkinsLaVa®]

God, man please!!! Don't even say that name!!!

[redskindave]

Amen to that, Ramsey should have started from the get go.

[tcwest10]

Who knew ? I think Joe had to fall flat on his face for this. He had to leave Brunell in, because he promised the man he'd have every opportunity to lead this team. To him, a promise is as good as gold. I admire him for sticking up for ol' noodle arm.
It didn't work out, and it's history now.
Thankfully.

[1fan4ramsey]

Who knew ? I think Joe had to fall flat on his face for this. He had to leave Brunell in, because he promised the man he'd have every opportunity to lead this team. To him, a promise is as good as gold. I admire him for sticking up for ol' noodle arm.
It didn't work out, and it's history now.
Thankfully.

But Gibbs said himself in a recent interview "Put this down: Mark Brunell's not done yet," Gibbs said. "We'll see. I'll stand on that one. I believe he'll fill a very important role here." That qoute is very scary.

[patjam77]

no what's scary is the cap bind it has put this team in. brunell needs to be a man and restructure.

[hailskins666]

MARK BRUNELL

That is the reason why our team ended up as we are now. It was allright to go with him for a little but the coaching staff (JGibbs) hurt our performance by relying with him for too long. That B.S. about quarterback loyalty clearly did not help us at all.

No wonder JGibbs has already named Ramsey the QB because he ACTUALLY moves the team FORWARD. JGibbs hit the hammer on the head with everything else except for a man named Brunell. What are we to do with him now? I say....make him the QB coach because he knows what to do in different situations but cannot physically do it himself.

We need to pick up a QB to back up Ramsey and/or Hasselbeck.

Everyone talked about JGibbs as God...but we have found out that he does have tragic flaw(s) as all humans do.

hold on, wait a minute, just a second. if i recall correctly, you were one of the most outspoken posters here that said there is no way ramsey should take over for brunell at about game 5. you said that if ramsey stepped in, our season would be downhill from there. now you are bashing the guy you wanted to stay in, and praising the guy you were bashing? please.....

perhaps you should read the thread that YOU started for the "ramsey lovers"...
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8189&start=0

how do you like your crow, with ketchup, or without?

[BringThePain!]

BUSTED!

FATALITY!

[hailskins666]

how soon some people forget.....

[JPM36]

Brunell just absolutely crushed us this year.

We had the #2 defense in the NFL, a stud at tailback, and we were playing in a conference that has to be the worst the NFL has seen in decades. All we needed was half decent QB play and we wouldve been a playoff team for sure. But we didnt get it until Ramsey took over. I admit that Patrick was far from great (especially last week) but he was definitely a step up from what Brunell gave us.

I firmly believe that if we had started Ramsey from Day 1 we wouldve finished 2nd in the division behind the Eagles and we wouldve secured one of the two wildcard spots in the NFC this year.

The Brunell trade was the single worst transaction made by any team in the NFL this year. It set our franchise back an entire season.

Oh, and those guys in black and white shirts didn't seem to do us many favors this year....or was I the only one that noticed that???

[air_hog]

MARK BRUNELL

That is the reason why our team ended up as we are now. It was allright to go with him for a little but the coaching staff (JGibbs) hurt our performance by relying with him for too long. That B.S. about quarterback loyalty clearly did not help us at all.

No wonder JGibbs has already named Ramsey the QB because he ACTUALLY moves the team FORWARD. JGibbs hit the hammer on the head with everything else except for a man named Brunell. What are we to do with him now? I say....make him the QB coach because he knows what to do in different situations but cannot physically do it himself.

We need to pick up a QB to back up Ramsey and/or Hasselbeck.

Everyone talked about JGibbs as God...but we have found out that he does have tragic flaw(s) as all humans do.

hold on, wait a minute, just a second. if i recall correctly, you were one of the most outspoken posters here that said there is no way ramsey should take over for brunell at about game 5. you said that if ramsey stepped in, our season would be downhill from there. now you are bashing the guy you wanted to stay in, and praising the guy you were bashing? please.....

perhaps you should read the thread that YOU started for the "ramsey lovers"...
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8189&start=0

how do you like your crow, with ketchup, or without?

bro you just got punkd!

[redskincity]

MARK BRUNELL

That is the reason why our team ended up as we are now. It was allright to go with him for a little but the coaching staff (JGibbs) hurt our performance by relying with him for too long. That B.S. about quarterback loyalty clearly did not help us at all.

No wonder JGibbs has already named Ramsey the QB because he ACTUALLY moves the team FORWARD. JGibbs hit the hammer on the head with everything else except for a man named Brunell. What are we to do with him now? I say....make him the QB coach because he knows what to do in different situations but cannot physically do it himself.

We need to pick up a QB to back up Ramsey and/or Hasselbeck.

Everyone talked about JGibbs as God...but we have found out that he does have tragic flaw(s) as all humans do.

hold on, wait a minute, just a second. if i recall correctly, you were one of the most outspoken posters here that said there is no way ramsey should take over for brunell at about game 5. you said that if ramsey stepped in, our season would be downhill from there. now you are bashing the guy you wanted to stay in, and praising the guy you were bashing? please.....

perhaps you should read the thread that YOU started for the "ramsey lovers"...
http://www.thehogs.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8189&start=0

how do you like your crow, with ketchup, or without?

The best reality T.V. shows are the ones where as people get busted

[chicosbailbond]

Who knew ? I think Joe had to fall flat on his face for this. He had to leave Brunell in, because he promised the man he'd have every opportunity to lead this team. To him, a promise is as good as gold. I admire him for sticking up for ol' noodle arm.
It didn't work out, and it's history now.
Thankfully.

But Gibbs said himself in a recent interview "Put this down: Mark Brunell's not done yet," Gibbs said. "We'll see. I'll stand on that one. I believe he'll fill a very important role here." That qoute is very scary.

regarding gibbs recent quote... you guys are missing the whole point of it....

granted gibbs made a mistake in picking and going with brunnell as his quarterback... but some positives did come out of it...

1.) He showed loyalty to Brunell... he kept his word... and other players saw that...

2.) which leads to my next point... gibbs showed ramsey that he will stick with his qb through a lot... now that it is ramsey's turn... in the back of his head he has to know that gibbs will be loyal to him too...


Gibbs did everything he said he would... he gave both players a shot at starting... he chose brunnell... and showed ultimate loyalty to him... and he told ramsey he wouldn't trade him b/c he has plans for him.... it was all true...

Gibbs has set a precedent with his players now... what Gibbs says he means....

this is one of the most valuable things that came out of this season...

and as far as the quote, gibbs has to keep brunell motivated and he probably is very comfortable with brunell as his back up... if and when we are in a playoff hunt next year and ramsey goes down... brunell has to be focused... gibbs is just planting seeds now... he is the master motivator...

[JansenFan]

Has anyone seen hatsoff2gibbs since "The Bust"?

[Texas Hog]

I don't believe you can narrow down our season to "one" mistake. I also don't believe that starting PRam from day 1 would have turned our season around....but what do I know, I could be wrong.

I don't see how crucial penalties, poor clock management and lack of production from our OL can all be blamed on Brunell or Gibbs' choice to start and stay with Brunell.

[air_hog]

:hmm: Has anyone seen hatsoff2gibbs since "The Bust"?

you know, i havent seen him either...

[Cooley47]

I firmly believe that we would be the 5 or 6 seed if we had let Brunell go to the Chargers

[welch]

Agree with above post. There was no one "fatal" mistake.

(a) Nothing was fatal...that from which the Redskins could not recover. There have been plenty of weaknesses that caused the losses this season. Most important, I think, is the OL, but we all know a half-dozen other small problems. Clock management, for instance, seems to come from the players' unfamiliarity with the system...confusion on who should be part of which package, confusion in the pre-snap shifting, etc.

(b) A mistake is something that someone should have known enough to avoid. Selecting players is chancy: the ESPN draft wizards decided that Tampa should pick either Trent Dilfer or Heath Shuler. Was it a "mistake" to pick Dilfer? He was the top-rated QB in the draft. How about Ryan Leaf? Or Michael Westbrook, who was drafted to be the next Art Monk? Or Monk, who was drafted to be the next Charley Taylor? Monk will go to the HOF, and Westbrook is a bad memory, but both were chosen by Charlie Casserly, who was the chief scout under Beathard.

Given the QB play among Wuerffel, Mathews, Hasselbeck, and Ramsey during the great Spurrier Experiemnt, it seemed reasonable that (a) Ramsey wasn't ready, so (b) the Redskins needed a real NFL QB, and someone with more zip than Tony Banks, to lead the team until Ramsey proved himself.

Who knew that Brunnell would be so bad?

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

Hey yall....I was in Disney World.

[hailskins666]

[die cowboys die]

of course you can say that brunell was the fatal mistake. it's patently absurd to say otherwise! yes, there were other problems. but we wasted half the season with a starting QB who couldn't do ANYTHING. he gave almost as many points to the OTHER team as he did to ours.

anyone who thinks there is any positive to be gained from this is deluding himself. "loyalty" is not automatically a virtue. i don't understand how that's so hard to realize. being loyal to a crappy QB doesn't send a good message to your team, it sends the message that you are a fool who lets his emotions and virtues dominate his sense of reason, and his accountability to actually try to WIN. fortunately for gibbs, he is so good at relating to his players in other ways he managed to quell those types of sentiments in the team, and has fostered a great "team" mentality, a mentality of true character.

if ramsey had started from day 1, there is no way we lose the Browns or Bengals games, and we would definitely have won at LEAST one of the following:

*1st NY game
*1st DALLAS game
*Ravens
*Packers (i know we won that one anyway in real life, but ramsey would have overcome the refs)

that puts us at a minimum of 9-7, going into the playoffs. 10-6 or 11-5 wouldn't even have been unreasonable.

yes, the season was wasted on brunell. it was a fatal mistake.

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

of course you can say that brunell was the fatal mistake. it's patently absurd to say otherwise! yes, there were other problems. but we wasted half the season with a starting QB who couldn't do ANYTHING. he gave almost as many points to the OTHER team as he did to ours.

anyone who thinks there is any positive to be gained from this is deluding himself. "loyalty" is not automatically a virtue. i don't understand how that's so hard to realize. being loyal to a crappy QB doesn't send a good message to your team, it sends the message that you are a fool who lets his emotions and virtues dominate his sense of reason, and his accountability to actually try to WIN. fortunately for gibbs, he is so good at relating to his players in other ways he managed to quell those types of sentiments in the team, and has fostered a great "team" mentality, a mentality of true character.

if ramsey had started from day 1, there is no way we lose the Browns or Bengals games, and we would definitely have won at LEAST one of the following:

*1st NY game
*1st DALLAS game
*Ravens
*Packers (i know we won that one anyway in real life, but ramsey would have overcome the refs)

that puts us at a minimum of 9-7, going into the playoffs. 10-6 or 11-5 wouldn't even have been unreasonable.

yes, the season was wasted on brunell. it was a fatal mistake.

I have found a new best friend.

[1niksder]

of course you can say that brunell was the fatal mistake. it's patently absurd to say otherwise! yes, there were other problems. but we wasted half the season with a starting QB who couldn't do ANYTHING. he gave almost as many points to the OTHER team as he did to ours.

anyone who thinks there is any positive to be gained from this is deluding himself. "loyalty" is not automatically a virtue. i don't understand how that's so hard to realize. being loyal to a crappy QB doesn't send a good message to your team, it sends the message that you are a fool who lets his emotions and virtues dominate his sense of reason, and his accountability to actually try to WIN. fortunately for gibbs, he is so good at relating to his players in other ways he managed to quell those types of sentiments in the team, and has fostered a great "team" mentality, a mentality of true character.

if ramsey had started from day 1, there is no way we lose the Browns or Bengals games, and we would definitely have won at LEAST one of the following:

*1st NY game
*1st DALLAS game
*Ravens
*Packers (i know we won that one anyway in real life, but ramsey would have overcome the refs)

that puts us at a minimum of 9-7, going into the playoffs. 10-6 or 11-5 wouldn't even have been unreasonable.

yes, the season was wasted on brunell. it was a fatal mistake.

Ramsey wasn't 100% when camp strated and I doubt he was ready to start when the season began.
He didn't start the Giants game but we saw how he played when playing catch up, is that what you really wanted. I think Gibbs got him in there when he could he probably put him in sooner than he wanted

[hatsOFF2gibbs]

of course you can say that brunell was the fatal mistake. it's patently absurd to say otherwise! yes, there were other problems. but we wasted half the season with a starting QB who couldn't do ANYTHING. he gave almost as many points to the OTHER team as he did to ours.

anyone who thinks there is any positive to be gained from this is deluding himself. "loyalty" is not automatically a virtue. i don't understand how that's so hard to realize. being loyal to a crappy QB doesn't send a good message to your team, it sends the message that you are a fool who lets his emotions and virtues dominate his sense of reason, and his accountability to actually try to WIN. fortunately for gibbs, he is so good at relating to his players in other ways he managed to quell those types of sentiments in the team, and has fostered a great "team" mentality, a mentality of true character.

if ramsey had started from day 1, there is no way we lose the Browns or Bengals games, and we would definitely have won at LEAST one of the following:

*1st NY game
*1st DALLAS game
*Ravens
*Packers (i know we won that one anyway in real life, but ramsey would have overcome the refs)

that puts us at a minimum of 9-7, going into the playoffs. 10-6 or 11-5 wouldn't even have been unreasonable.

yes, the season was wasted on brunell. it was a fatal mistake.

Ramsey wasn't 100% when camp strated and I doubt he was ready to start when the season began.
He didn't start the Giants game but we saw how he played when playing catch up, is that what you really wanted. I think Gibbs got him in there when he could he probably put him in sooner than he wanted

Of course you are going to play bad when you are behind and are put on the field to gain points as quick as possible

[Redskin in Canada]

if ramsey had started from day 1, there is no way we lose the Browns or Bengals games, and we would definitely have won at LEAST one of the following:

*1st NY game

Excuse me,

As much as I like Patrick, and I do like him A LOT. His performance at this game was the WORST performance I have seen by -any- Skins QB in all my life. And I saw some pretty awful performances by J. Theisman and D. Williams in the last stages of their careers.

Patrick Ramsey did as much damage as any other player to this team by showing to Joe that he was not ready to play at that time at all. He had struggled mightily in the preseason as well.

The Brunell thing is a -joint- responsibility by all concerned, not only one person whoever you wish to make the scapegoat.