The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:He may not be fired, but I think he'll quit. The man is too stubborn to keep losing.

If you've learned anything about this man, it should be that he does NOT quit. He, like everyone has his faults but he would not quit on this team.

It's really not going to matter - Bruce & Mike will add the pieces and Mike will make it all work

As I've said before, I do not like the man but I really respect his ability to get the most out of both coaches and players

This franchise will get the wins, more importantly they'll be playing well together. Mike does not accept anything less than 110%

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IMO - Mike & Bruce are still here after 4 years if they continue to add players and coaches as they have done

Keep on the same plan as they've done and these guys will get the extensions they deserve


this franchise was BAD at the end of 2009 - this FO has done very well in getting us back to being close to being competitive again

I can guarantee you that if after next year Shanahan has another losing season, he's gone. He may not be fired, but I think he'll quit. The man is too stubborn to keep losing. It doesn't matter who he adds to this team if we don't produce the W's.

If he has another season like this or worse he is gone. He would get fired. I do not think he would quit because I think he would want to try to fix it. Even he thinks he could be let go if he keeps regressing in loses.

Kilmer72 wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IMO - Mike & Bruce are still here after 4 years if they continue to add players and coaches as they have done

Keep on the same plan as they've done and these guys will get the extensions they deserve


this franchise was BAD at the end of 2009 - this FO has done very well in getting us back to being close to being competitive again

I can guarantee you that if after next year Shanahan has another losing season, he's gone. He may not be fired, but I think he'll quit. The man is too stubborn to keep losing. It doesn't matter who he adds to this team if we don't produce the W's.

If he has another season like this or worse he is gone. He would get fired. I do not think he would quit because I think he would want to try to fix it. Even he thinks he could be let go if he keeps regressing in loses.

I think he has to get to 8 wins next season or he's gone. No NFL owner is going to put with 3 straight losing seasons from a newly hired coach. Shanahan doesn't post a winning record next season and you're looking at 5 straight seasons for him of .500 or worse ball.

CanesSkins26 wrote:I think he has to get to 8 wins next season or he's gone. No NFL owner is going to put with 3 straight losing seasons from a newly hired coach. Shanahan doesn't post a winning record next season and you're looking at 5 straight seasons for him of .500 or worse ball.

But we aren't most teams and most teams have more stability than us. They have to keep this thing together for a while. They must. Really.

He'll be here for all 5 years. It was agreed upon before he took the job. Both Dan and Mike have said it. If anything, you may see the scouting dept cleaned out if the draft is a flop but based on this past years draft production, we'll do pretty good.

frankcal20 wrote:He'll be here for all 5 years. It was agreed upon before he took the job. Both Dan and Mike have said it. If anything, you may see the scouting dept cleaned out if the draft is a flop but based on this past years draft production, we'll do pretty good.

I did not know that - thanks

I really think that all this becomes a moot point - I just don't see these guys not continuing to make this franchise better - I agree that Mike would most likely get fired if this franchise does not look a lot better but i just can't see these guys not making it very obvious that we're on the right track

It's not that we have to get 8 wins this season (I think we will) - it's more how we look if we have 8 losses

The key for the offense is to get better play from the QB and that will happen



I prefer to look at the positives - The franchise finally has an FO that has a plan - Mike is too good a HC to not make it better

frankcal20 wrote:He'll be here for all 5 years. It was agreed upon before he took the job. Both Dan and Mike have said it. If anything, you may see the scouting dept cleaned out if the draft is a flop but based on this past years draft production, we'll do pretty good.

I hear you. But Shanny believes that it's 4 years:

"Later on, though, I asked what impact the fact of his 11-21 record in his first two seasons as Redskins coach has on his faith that he's building the team the right way.

MS: "You just know that you've got two more years to get the job done, because they never let you go through the five years. You get it done in four years or you're gone. But that's what I love about this profession -- the pressure of it, what goes with it. The thing that I enjoy is that I've got an owner that's going to give me a chance to be successful. And if I can't get it done in four years, even though I've got a five-year contract, then I shouldn't be here."

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blog ... =34788&wjb

I like that - I take it that he is sure he's going to get it done or he shouldn't be here - he will get it done

these guys have the program heading in the right direction and just need better play from the QB

THAT WILL HAPPEN too

Pretty sad that, of that list:

Jason Cambpell
Mark Brunnell
Chase Daniel
Rex Grossman
Donovan McNabb

All played here and sucked recently (except for Chase Daniel--who didn't suck--but still wasn't good enough to make the team).

It's pretty simple that he's got a plan that Snyder knows about. It's about creating a foundation on this team to then put in a young QB in to continue to build and grow.

frankcal20 wrote:It's pretty simple that he's got a plan that Snyder knows about. It's about creating a foundation on this team to then put in a young QB in to continue to build and grow.

Just because he has a plan, that doesn't mean it's going to work. If we are 5-11 or 6-10 again next season, there is no way he gets a fourth year. The Skins already had issues with ticket sales this year (remember the supposed party deck that never materialized but instead was a seat reduction?), and another awful year and it wont matter what understanding Shanahan and Snyder had when he was hired, he'll be out. I don't think that it'll happen because I'm cautiously optimistic that Shanahan can get us to around .500 next year, but if he can't I think it's a near certainty that he's out.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:It's pretty simple that he's got a plan that Snyder knows about. It's about creating a foundation on this team to then put in a young QB in to continue to build and grow.

Just because he has a plan, that doesn't mean it's going to work. If we are 5-11 or 6-10 again next season, there is no way he gets a fourth year. The Skins already had issues with ticket sales this year (remember the supposed party deck that never materialized but instead was a seat reduction?), and another awful year and it wont matter what understanding Shanahan and Snyder had when he was hired, he'll be out. I don't think that it'll happen because I'm cautiously optimistic that Shanahan can get us to around .500 next year, but if he can't I think it's a near certainty that he's out.

I don't think he is going to fail either Canes. I don't think things could get much worse for Shanahan.

How convienent drafting a TOP tier qb in RGiii or Luck would be for job security then right? Better play at the position (w a couple of moves in FA like last year but on offense and some more good picks w what we have left) equals more competitive probably more wins and either qb would most DEFINITELY fill some seats ya?
Is it not known by all that not only did the Danny desperately SEEK OUT MS but also pretty much begged him to come much before he finally did? Things like "ill need time" "the team will need rebuilding" "we do it my way" " won't be over night" surely were discussed. He was given solé control and final say for a reason Dannu loves MS. I hope we have a better season next year although our schedule looks pretty tough I think realistically year four we are on beast mode and top dawgs in the nfc. I hope we can dominate this year but we shall see. Regardless shanny is here for the long haul imo.

I thought FedEx field had some kind of record long sold out streak? If people are buying all the tickets then not going it doesn't hurt the pocket AS much. Concessions and parking etc granted

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I think he has to get to 8 wins next season or he's gone. No NFL owner is going to put with 3 straight losing seasons from a newly hired coach. Shanahan doesn't post a winning record next season and you're looking at 5 straight seasons for him of .500 or worse ball.

But we aren't most teams and most teams have more stability than us. They have to keep this thing together for a while. They must. Really.

+1

If MS fires Shanny b4 he has a chance to finish this rebuilding process, we're going to end up with some no-name failure of a retread coach who's done nothing except maybe have one good season as an assistant like a "Josh McDaniel" type. No thanks. At that point, it will be very clear that DS really can't get out of the way and is so much of a control freak with unrealistic expectations that we'll never be good. He has to let this thing play out.

^^ + 1

however - some here are V nervous about Snyder AND his advisors and 'yes men'


so far, I'll agree, he has seen what is possible when guys that know what thet are doing are involved

he has stayed away from the FO and what they have done

hopefully that continues

Based on what Shanahan said himself about the 4 year clock, that puts even greater emphasis on the need to grab a top tier QB .... rather than a 2nd or 3rd rounder project type.

Even with a highly talented rookie QB, you have to expect some growing pains, so in my mind you can't postpone that move beyond this off season. Shanahan has to get his guy now, with hopes that the rookie can help improve the offense, and gain that experience necessary for a strong 2nd year (Shanny's unofficial final 4th year)

Heck, if Shanahan is convinced he's only got two more years to put together a winner, he ought to go sign Flynn and draft RG3 .... Danny's got the pockets for it ... so don't take any chances ... get Flynn to be the penciled in starter, and take RG3 and let him learn until he shows enough in practice to start or in case Flynn doesn't get the job done.

Neither Rex nor Beck is the answer here ... that's been proven beyond a doubt. So why keep either of them here ... what security blanket do either of those guys provide you? Nothing.

So we actually need TWO QBs ... not just one. So bite the bullet, grab the best two out there ... one experienced pro, albeit limited game experience, and the best rookie available. All smart gamblers hedge their bets.

We'll see a bunch of QBs get an opportunity to show what they can do

AND .... we will almost certainly draft a couple

I doubt we can get RGIII at #6 - the talent evaluators must have a few college guys they think can help here

the QB play and the offensive play calling will be a lot better than last season - count on it



STICK WITH THE PLAN - keep adding to the mix

RayNAustin wrote:Based on what Shanahan said himself about the 4 year clock, that puts even greater emphasis on the need to grab a top tier QB .... rather than a 2nd or 3rd rounder project type.

Even with a highly talented rookie QB, you have to expect some growing pains, so in my mind you can't postpone that move beyond this off season. Shanahan has to get his guy now, with hopes that the rookie can help improve the offense, and gain that experience necessary for a strong 2nd year (Shanny's unofficial final 4th year)

Heck, if Shanahan is convinced he's only got two more years to put together a winner, he ought to go sign Flynn and draft RG3 .... Danny's got the pockets for it ... so don't take any chances ... get Flynn to be the penciled in starter, and take RG3 and let him learn until he shows enough in practice to start or in case Flynn doesn't get the job done.

Neither Rex nor Beck is the answer here ... that's been proven beyond a doubt. So why keep either of them here ... what security blanket do either of those guys provide you? Nothing.

So we actually need TWO QBs ... not just one. So bite the bullet, grab the best two out there... one experienced pro, albeit limited game experience, and the best rookie available. All smart gamblers hedge their bets.

Ray I totally agree with you from the standpoint of a 4 year plan. If he's only being given 4 years, I think he has to get whichever QB he see's as the best. If he's given 5 which some on here seem to think, I think he grabs a bit more of a project. If Danny is patient, we're trading down not up. I would expect Cincy is going to trade up with us for Morris Claiborne if he's available or the Browns up to grab Richardson who should definitely be there. We would move down and pick up Tannehill at 17 or 24

I honestly think the Shanaplan is the right thing for this franchise, but that doesn't mean we're going to become a winning, playoff contention team overnight. I think that perhaps if Shanahan does get fired or goes 5 years without a winning (or if his best season is something like 9-7), we'll have success as long as we keep Bruce Allen as our GM. It's only a matter of time, I think they're doing things the right way finally.

Folks at ESPN (Bram Weinstein) saying that Skins are NOT looking at Flynn. Thom & Kevin are hearing differently.

frankcal20 wrote:Folks at ESPN (Bram Weinstein) saying that Skins are NOT looking at Flynn. Thom & Kevin are hearing differently.

Seattle apparently is. He's going to get Kevin Kolb money in my opinion. He's not worth it. Go with the rookie.

chiefhog44 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Based on what Shanahan said himself about the 4 year clock, that puts even greater emphasis on the need to grab a top tier QB .... rather than a 2nd or 3rd rounder project type.

Even with a highly talented rookie QB, you have to expect some growing pains, so in my mind you can't postpone that move beyond this off season. Shanahan has to get his guy now, with hopes that the rookie can help improve the offense, and gain that experience necessary for a strong 2nd year (Shanny's unofficial final 4th year)

Heck, if Shanahan is convinced he's only got two more years to put together a winner, he ought to go sign Flynn and draft RG3 .... Danny's got the pockets for it ... so don't take any chances ... get Flynn to be the penciled in starter, and take RG3 and let him learn until he shows enough in practice to start or in case Flynn doesn't get the job done.

Neither Rex nor Beck is the answer here ... that's been proven beyond a doubt. So why keep either of them here ... what security blanket do either of those guys provide you? Nothing.

So we actually need TWO QBs ... not just one. So bite the bullet, grab the best two out there... one experienced pro, albeit limited game experience, and the best rookie available. All smart gamblers hedge their bets.

Ray I totally agree with you from the standpoint of a 4 year plan. If he's only being given 4 years, I think he has to get whichever QB he see's as the best. If he's given 5 which some on here seem to think, I think he grabs a bit more of a project. If Danny is patient, we're trading down not up. I would expect Cincy is going to trade up with us for Morris Claiborne if he's available or the Browns up to grab Richardson who should definitely be there. We would move down and pick up Tannehill at 17 or 24

Well, I'm going by what Shanahan said himself, so I don't see how others here could have a better take on this than the man himself.

Moreover, the larger point is "progress" .... you know, people said the same thing about the shortage of talent on this team after 2004's miserable 1st year in Gibbs II regime. Yet, we made it to the playoffs in year 2, and ultimately 2 out of 4 years under Joe Gibbs. So, it's not at all unreasonable to expect at least something resembling that from Shanahan by year 4.

Right now, after 2 years, Mike Shanahan's overall 32 game record is worse than Jim Zorn's 32 games, and it's been universally accepted that Zorn's tenure was an unmitigated disaster. So the "Name" Shanahan and the associated reputation can only buy him so much additional leeway ... ultimately, everyone is judged by "what have you done lately" at some point, and I don't think that means 8-8.

That we ALL know that the QB position is the greatest need of this team is an accepted fact, and not debatable. Therefore, the "how" we get that QB is less important than actually accomplishing the task. So I just don't see how he can possibly choose to go with a "project" at this point ... that's the move he should have made last year rather than staking his reputation on Beck. His decisions with 3 QBs in two years is what has painted him into a corner, so the status quo is not an option, nor is another miscalculation of talent for a potential project type. Nobody would fault Shanahan for picking a TOP rated talent .... if we got Luck or RG3 and they took more time to develop than expected, I could see Snyder being patient ..... but if he screws up one more time by picking a questionable entity, he might not even make it to year 4, because I don't think you can end next year in similar condition as this year. There has to be significant progress next year, not necessarily measured by major improvement in the win-loss column, but in having a promising QB running the offense by the end of the season, giving a reason for optimism about year 4.

And, in my humble opinion, if Shanahan and Bruce Allen don't find a way to nail down and solidify the QB position after three years, they ought to be fired.

frankcal20 wrote:Folks at ESPN (Bram Weinstein) saying that Skins are NOT looking at Flynn. Thom & Kevin are hearing differently.

Well, take what Thom and Kevin are saying, determine the exact opposite, and you'll have the real story

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Folks at ESPN (Bram Weinstein) saying that Skins are NOT looking at Flynn. Thom & Kevin are hearing differently.

Well, take what Thom and Kevin are saying, determine the exact opposite, and you'll have the real story

Good luck figuring that out