Official Redskins-Giants Post Game Thread

Talk about the Washington Football Team here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:I'm not mad at them, I just pointed out their problem areas. If you don't think their lack of a pass rush and their "cushion" pass coverage scheme isn't going to come around to bite this team in the butt you're sorely mistaken.


What type of coverage did you expect? Did you want them gambling out there with our top two DB's out?

Springs, Smoot were out more or less....
Doughty is garbage in coverage.
Laron is still not 100%, hardly practiced and got hurt during the game...

So considering those factual circumstances it was a must that they keep the WR's in front of them and play soft.

If they play like that when everyone is healthy, then its an issue. Last night, it wasn't. Even playing soft they had 4 int chances.
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:I'm not mad at them, I just pointed out their problem areas. If you don't think their lack of a pass rush and their "cushion" pass coverage scheme isn't going to come around to bite this team in the butt you're sorely mistaken.


What type of coverage did you expect? Did you want them gambling out there with our top two DB's out?

Springs, Smoot were out more or less....
Doughty is garbage in coverage.
Laron is still not 100%, hardly practiced and got hurt during the game...

So considering those factual circumstances it was a must that they keep the WR's in front of them and play soft.

If they play like that when everyone is healthy, then its an issue. Last night, it wasn't. Even playing soft they had 4 int chances.


The D has played cushion pass defense for years, and even when they've been 100% healthy. I doubt we'll see anything different when they're again back 100%.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:The D has played cushion pass defense for years, and even when they've been 100% healthy. I doubt we'll see anything different when they're again back 100%.


Who cares if they're playing if they get the results they got last night. Really!?? Who cares? They held them to 16 points with tons of injuries and got a bogus PI call against them!

They could play a sling shot defense for all I care if they're playing like that.

I saw a defense that adjusted to what was being thrown at them. They did some damage control, spotted the leaks in the 1st half and SHUT THEM OUT IN THE 2ND!

The defense gets an A from me, especially considering the injuries.
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Post by grampi »

What I don't understand is it seems the coaching staff has one offensive and one defensive game plan and only one, and they're unable or unwilling to make adjustments during the game. For example, when throwing the dump passes way behind the first down marker on third down failed to work let's say the first half dozen times they tried it, any sain person would try something else. Not the Skins. They kept doing the same failing scenario over, and over, and over. Same thing on defense. You'd think after the Giants completed 6 or so 10+ yard passes the defense would change their strategy, but no, they continue using the cushion coverage when it clearly wasn't working. Even a small child eventually learns not to put their hand on a hot stove burner after they've been burned a few times.
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Post by langleyparkjoe »

So many things to say... catch me in smack and lets get to it!
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:The D has played cushion pass defense for years, and even when they've been 100% healthy. I doubt we'll see anything different when they're again back 100%.


Who cares if they're playing if they get the results they got last night. Really!?? Who cares? They held them to 16 points with tons of injuries and got a bogus PI call against them!

They could play a sling shot defense for all I care if they're playing like that.

I saw a defense that adjusted to what was being thrown at them. They did some damage control, spotted the leaks in the 1st half and SHUT THEM OUT IN THE 2ND!

The defense gets an A from me, especially considering the injuries.


The reason you should be concerned is because using ONLY the cushion pass coverage scheme as the Skins do is a faulty one. They got away with using it last night in the second half, but it clearly was not working in the first half, and if they continue to use only this type of pass coverage scheme throughout the season with no variables in being able to adjust, it is going to come back to haunt them. They need to mix up the pass coverage whereas they can play the cushion defense when it's appropriate AND also be able to crowd the line and hit the receivers as they come off the line when it's appropriate. Right now they seem to be unable or willing to even try anything except the cushion coverage.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:What I don't understand is it seems the coaching staff has one offensive and one defensive game plan and only one, and they're unable or unwilling to make adjustments during the game.


Joke post confirmed?

Did we not see CP run to the sidelines, recommend something to Zorn and then see CP ramble off two huge runs?

Did we not see the defense shut down the Giants in the 2nd half?

Joe Gibbs isnt coaching the Giants, they weren't protecting the lead, they would have scored on every possession if we let them.

Nobody is happy about the game but let's not just make up things to complain about.
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:What I don't understand is it seems the coaching staff has one offensive and one defensive game plan and only one, and they're unable or unwilling to make adjustments during the game.


Joke post confirmed?

Did we not see CP run to the sidelines, recommend something to Zorn and then see CP ramble off two huge runs?

Did we not see the defense shut down the Giants in the 2nd half?

Joe Gibbs isnt coaching the Giants, they weren't protecting the lead, they would have scored on every possession if we let them.

Nobody is happy about the game but let's not just make up things to complain about.


You remind me of the mayor of Amityville who was determined to ignore the shark problem until it swam up and bit him in the a$$! The Skins defense got away with one last night in the second half. That doesn't mean they will continue to get away with it every week, and they won't if they continue with the cushion pass coverage.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:You remind me of the mayor of Amityville who was determined to ignore the shark problem until it swam up and bit him in the a$$! The Skins defense got away with one last night in the second half. That doesn't mean they will continue to get away with it every week, and they won't if they continue with the cushion pass coverage.


Ignore the problem? It happened. It's factual that it happened. Now did it happen to great success? That's a different story. But you said that it DID NOT HAPPEN, when in fact that it did.

Please dude, don't even start. They altered their plans, they did it with mild success on offense and to a greater effect on defense. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about without fabricating things.
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Post by SkinsJock »

I am also very sure that if we had held onto a few of those interceptions that might have been a lot closer game.

Yes we have a lot of issues but it will get better. I still think we will have a decent defense and we do need to get the offense on track.


Looks like manning is going to continue where he left off last year - I believe he threw 20 interceptions during the season.
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:You remind me of the mayor of Amityville who was determined to ignore the shark problem until it swam up and bit him in the a$$! The Skins defense got away with one last night in the second half. That doesn't mean they will continue to get away with it every week, and they won't if they continue with the cushion pass coverage.


Ignore the problem? It happened. It's factual that it happened. Now did it happen to great success? That's a different story. But you said that it DID NOT HAPPEN, when in fact that it did.

Please dude, don't even start. They altered their plans, they did it with mild success on offense and to a greater effect on defense. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about without fabricating things.


Who's fabricating? I watched the entire game and the Skins never stopped using the cushion coverage.
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Post by GSPODS »

grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:You remind me of the mayor of Amityville who was determined to ignore the shark problem until it swam up and bit him in the a$$! The Skins defense got away with one last night in the second half. That doesn't mean they will continue to get away with it every week, and they won't if they continue with the cushion pass coverage.


Ignore the problem? It happened. It's factual that it happened. Now did it happen to great success? That's a different story. But you said that it DID NOT HAPPEN, when in fact that it did.

Please dude, don't even start. They altered their plans, they did it with mild success on offense and to a greater effect on defense. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about without fabricating things.


Who's fabricating? I watched the entire game and the Skins never stopped using the cushion coverage.


Ooh! Blind man's bluff! Can I play?

Fact: The #1 CB was inactive.
Fact: The #2 CB is coming off major knee surgery 2 months or more early.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was asked to cover the #1 WR for the Giants man-to-man, more than a slight mismatch.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was injured during the game, leaving the #2 and the #4 CB's.
Fact: The #1 FS was injured during the game, and was playing on one good leg to begin with, leaving the #2 and #4 CB's and a rookie FS with a SS who can't pass defend.
Fact: Playing any other defense with the above facts would have allowed more than 16 points.
Fact: If a team's offense can't score the NFL average of 24 points per game, they deserve to lose and are lucky to win.

This is a fun game.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:Who's fabricating? I watched the entire game and the Skins never stopped using the cushion coverage.


And thank goodness they didn't!!@! Why? The swell fellow below really lays it out for you. It cannot get simpler than that.

GSPODS wrote:Ooh! Blind man's bluff! Can I play?

Fact: The #1 CB was inactive.
Fact: The #2 CB is coming off major knee surgery 2 months or more early.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was asked to cover the #1 WR for the Giants man-to-man, more than a slight mismatch.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was injured during the game, leaving the #2 and the #4 CB's.
Fact: The #1 FS was injured during the game, and was playing on one good leg to begin with, leaving the #2 and #4 CB's and a rookie FS with a SS who can't pass defend.
Fact: Playing any other defense with the above facts would have allowed more than 16 points.
Fact: If a team's offense can't score the NFL average of 24 points per game, they deserve to lose and are lucky to win.

This is a fun game.
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Post by grampi »

GSPODS wrote:
grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:You remind me of the mayor of Amityville who was determined to ignore the shark problem until it swam up and bit him in the a$$! The Skins defense got away with one last night in the second half. That doesn't mean they will continue to get away with it every week, and they won't if they continue with the cushion pass coverage.


Ignore the problem? It happened. It's factual that it happened. Now did it happen to great success? That's a different story. But you said that it DID NOT HAPPEN, when in fact that it did.

Please dude, don't even start. They altered their plans, they did it with mild success on offense and to a greater effect on defense. There are plenty of things to be unhappy about without fabricating things.


Who's fabricating? I watched the entire game and the Skins never stopped using the cushion coverage.


Ooh! Blind man's bluff! Can I play?

Fact: The #1 CB was inactive.
Fact: The #2 CB is coming off major knee surgery 2 months or more early.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was asked to cover the #1 WR for the Giants man-to-man, more than a slight mismatch.
Fact: The #3 Nickel CB was injured during the game, leaving the #2 and the #4 CB's.
Fact: The #1 FS was injured during the game, and was playing on one good leg to begin with, leaving the #2 and #4 CB's and a rookie FS with a SS who can't pass defend.
Fact: Playing any other defense with the above facts would have allowed more than 16 points.
Fact: If a team's offense can't score the NFL average of 24 points per game, they deserve to lose and are lucky to win.

This is a fun game.


So why do their injuries dictate that they MUST play only a cushion coverage scheme? If their 2nd stringers can't play anything but cushion, then they probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And don't make it sound as though I believe their defense is the reason they lost because I know it isn't, but that doesn't mean their defense doesn't have problems.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:So why do their injuries dictate that they MUST play only a cushion coverage scheme? If their 2nd stringers can't play anything but cushion, then they probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And don't make it sound as though I believe their defense is the reason they lost because I know it isn't, but that doesn't mean their defense doesn't have problems.


So you want Torrence, Tryon, or Reed left on an island?

The cushion is to not get beat deep. Deep = TD. They didn't score in the 2nd half so even with the cushion they won that battle. What;s the problem?
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:So why do their injuries dictate that they MUST play only a cushion coverage scheme? If their 2nd stringers can't play anything but cushion, then they probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And don't make it sound as though I believe their defense is the reason they lost because I know it isn't, but that doesn't mean their defense doesn't have problems.


So you want Torrence, Tryon, or Reed left on an island?

The cushion is to not get beat deep. Deep = TD. They didn't score in the 2nd half so even with the cushion they won that battle. What;s the problem?


The problem is the cushion coverage prevents against the immediate TD, but allows the offense to keep getting 1st downs, which eventually also leads to TD's. The Skins dodged a bullet in the 2nd half using this coverage scheme. Thinking this type of coverage is going to work every week against every team is naive.
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Post by KazooSkinsFan »

Countertrey wrote:There are times, when the most difficult task in the world is to remain optimistic.

It clearly appeared that the game has yet to slow down for poor Jason. Yes, he was pressured... but he was also doing a lot of unneeded double pumping and hesitating.

Jason was a clear disappointment last night. He made a few OK throws, that was about it. you expect more then a few OK throws during the course of an entire NFL game from your starting QB. He's going to have to play better then that. The D was scaring me, but kept getting better though the game. Cautiously optimistic there. Love Portis's heart. Man, the guy can lay a lick on too.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:So why do their injuries dictate that they MUST play only a cushion coverage scheme? If their 2nd stringers can't play anything but cushion, then they probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And don't make it sound as though I believe their defense is the reason they lost because I know it isn't, but that doesn't mean their defense doesn't have problems.


So you want Torrence, Tryon, or Reed left on an island?

The cushion is to not get beat deep. Deep = TD. They didn't score in the 2nd half so even with the cushion they won that battle. What;s the problem?


The problem is the cushion coverage prevents against the immediate TD, but allows the offense to keep getting 1st downs, which eventually also leads to TD's. The Skins dodged a bullet in the 2nd half using this coverage scheme. Thinking this type of coverage is going to work every week against every team is naive.


Who said it will work every week?
DOn't take credit away from them saying they dodged a bullet. They held their ground and did a darn good job.

It's pointless talking to you because you just want to discredit where credit is due. They played that coverage due to the injuries and succeeded. Kudos to the defense for holding a superbowl team whom dismantled the patriots to 16 freaking points.
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Post by Thundersloth »

grampi wrote:What I don't understand is it seems the coaching staff has one offensive and one defensive game plan and only one, and they're unable or unwilling to make adjustments during the game. For example, when throwing the dump passes way behind the first down marker on third down failed to work let's say the first half dozen times they tried it, any sain person would try something else. Not the Skins. They kept doing the same failing scenario over, and over, and over. Same thing on defense. You'd think after the Giants completed 6 or so 10+ yard passes the defense would change their strategy, but no, they continue using the cushion coverage when it clearly wasn't working. Even a small child eventually learns not to put their hand on a hot stove burner after they've been burned a few times.


Actually, I did see adjustments defensively, they tried to change zones, they tried to cover man with man free coverages mixed in, unfortunately the result was the same. Yes they did give up some yardage, but they kept them out of the endzone except for one series.

Offensively I saw Giant defenders covering the guys that were past the first down marker and instead of throwing the ball away or trying to make a bad decision, Campbell threw it to the short pattern. Keep in mind there are primary routes in a pattern and there are control routes. Control routes are designed to occupy pass defenders and hopefully open up some of the primary routes, last night, it was definitely not working. Zorn can't make the reads or the throws for Campbell, he just has to get more comfortable with the offensive schemes.

Now, some of the play calling, especially 4th quarter running plays seemed a bit strange.
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Post by roybus14 »

A few things stood out to me last night that I'm hoping they will correct next week.


Offense:

1. The offense doesn't have that pep in their step they had in the preseason, getting to the line with 15-20 seconds left on the play clock. Alot of plays, they were getting to the line just in time to snap.

2. Why are we running Portis up the gut instead of more on the edges?

3. It is obviously that Cooley is a better pass catcher than blocker, so why are we making him block instead of putting in one of the other TE's on running play?

4. Poor clock management and a lack of urgency by both Zorn and Campbell. It's like they were just going through the motions with getting the plays in and running them against the clock.

5. Jason just looks like he is robotic and only doing what he is told to do. He is the starter and he doesn't have anything, he should use his legs to get open. He should be willing to improvise and take a chance or two.

6. Are the receivers running the right routes and giving up on routes or is Campbell? One example was when they showed the replay of Campbell going deep to Moss, I thought that the CB was fast enough to run with him and that is why he was there when the ball got there. But when they showed that replay, Moss had him by 2 steps before he slowed down right before Campbell throw it. If Moss had kept running would that have been a touchdown or would Campbell had under thrown him? And should the receivers keep running the play out just in case the QB comes out of a break down and throw them the ball?

7. The O-Line. I don't understand why this line continues to give up sacks to speed rushers when they have two on their team that they can face in practice to get ready for it? Does Blanch and Bugel have Taylor and Carter speed rush Samuels and Heyer in practice to prepare them for the games???? One would think that they work on that in practice or at least have the scout team use speed rushers.

Defense:

1. The defense is still to soft on the running game.

2. What is the best fit for Taylor, LE or RE and was he too hurt last night to be effective?

3. When are these CBs going to learn how to catch the football? Even though Eli caught lightening in a bottle at the end of last year, he's still Eli. And if we could have caught those balls and the offense generated a field goal off of each, we may have won the game.

4. What was wrong with Springs? When he is healthy, is he a better fit opposite of Landry instead of Doughty?

5. The defense wasn't great but their were not bad either and gave the offense enough chances to put points on the board.
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Post by grampi »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
grampi wrote:So why do their injuries dictate that they MUST play only a cushion coverage scheme? If their 2nd stringers can't play anything but cushion, then they probably shouldn't be playing in the NFL. And don't make it sound as though I believe their defense is the reason they lost because I know it isn't, but that doesn't mean their defense doesn't have problems.


So you want Torrence, Tryon, or Reed left on an island?

The cushion is to not get beat deep. Deep = TD. They didn't score in the 2nd half so even with the cushion they won that battle. What;s the problem?


The problem is the cushion coverage prevents against the immediate TD, but allows the offense to keep getting 1st downs, which eventually also leads to TD's. The Skins dodged a bullet in the 2nd half using this coverage scheme. Thinking this type of coverage is going to work every week against every team is naive.


Who said it will work every week?
DOn't take credit away from them saying they dodged a bullet. They held their ground and did a darn good job.

It's pointless talking to you because you just want to discredit where credit is due. They played that coverage due to the injuries and succeeded. Kudos to the defense for holding a superbowl team whom dismantled the patriots to 16 freaking points.


I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about the defense. I would agree they are the least of this team's problems. However, the offense is going to have to make some drastic improvements if this team has any hopes of winning.
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Post by skinsfan1963 »

would'nt it have made a lot more sense for the 1st team offense would have played all of the last preseason game?
maybe they would have not been so flat during the first half last nite,especially the offense?
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Post by USAFSkinFan »

thoughts...

- The PI on Smoot was a joke
- JC not only seems uncomfortable with the offense, but doesn't seem to buy into it... the look on his face says "let me throw the ball down field...
- The O-line looks more like they're hanging on for dear life than dictating play
- Portis plays hard
- Sellers plays hard
- Moss was not down by contact on that play because he didn't make the catch until after he had been knocked down
- Chris Wilson always seems to make a play when he gets a chance
- Cooley didn't make the pro bowl blocking defensive ends
- Brooks looked nervous, but he'll get better
- Suisham kickoffs since the beginning of preseason have been deep
- It's a big advantage to have a 6'5" receiver that's strong and fast and can post-up on any DB in the league
- Eli is tougher than I give him credit for
- Our D won't get off the field all year if the opponent is in 2nd and 3rd and short all day
- There was no sense of urgency on Offense... ever... where's the pace Zorn talked about?
- If Jason Taylor can't hold the point of attack better than that, he needs to be a pass-rush only specialist... if his injury is the problem then move him around, rotate him, or get him out of there... the defense can't be leaning his way all game long to stop the run...
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Post by MDSKINSFAN »

i dont think we played that bad for the first game in a new system. the defense got settled in and had a scoreless 2nd half. JC looked like he got a little bit more comfortable as the game went on. I wouldve loved to see chris cooley get more involved and i wouldve liked to seen more rushes with portis too. it just seemed like we moved the ball better when he ran. i wish too that our CB's had hands; smoot dropped two and carlos dropped one. Also jason taylor was not even 80% healthy last night. he couldnt run fast or really plant hard enough to get a good push
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Post by Thundersloth »

Even if Taylor was less than 100%, I didn't see any less production out of that spot than I did from last year.

We are going to have a very tired defense if the offense doesn't get it in gear and sustain a drive. I agree with most of the posts in this thread that point out the lack of urgency they had during the game and more importantly at the end of the game. It looked like they thought they could score a TD and go for a 3 or 4 point conversion, no tempo, no sense of urgency.
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