The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

StorminMormon86 wrote:Starting McCoy makes sense in the short term, obviously. But what if he struggles? Does Gruden pull him and go back to Cousins?!

One other point that bothers me about starting McCoy is what exactly is he playing for? With Cousins he was playing to unseat Griffin or beef up his trade value (to show other teams he's a good starter). McCoy doesn't necessarily have that option. And with Gruden already proclaiming Griffin the starter once he's healthy, how is that supposed to boost McCoy's confidence? Or maybe I've just been thinking about it too much today.

I don't agree with this at all

McCoy and Cousins are the back up QBs here - always were, still are - McCoy is now starting until Griffin can play

I doubt that anyone other than some stupid fans, thought that Cousins had a chance at being the starting QB over Griffin - NO WAY

SkinsJock wrote:riggofan - i think that they will start Griffin as soon as they feel he's ready - we don't have the luxury of holding him out

I don't think we're making the playoffs no matter what and with that in mind, I'd rather wait a few games and let him get in more work before they put him back in - he definitely needs the playing time but why rush it like I think they will

Those seem to be conflicting stances. Either we can afford to keep him out, or we can't. Which one is it?

I'll give you two reasons why he needs to go back in as soon as possible.
1: In 2012 we went on a 10 game winning streak to finish out the year, and win the division. It could happen again, but not without RGIII.
2: We have to decide at the end of the season if we're going to exercise the 5th year option on RGIII, and need to evaluate if he can get back to the level of play we saw in 2012. I can't imagine that they would not exercise the option, but you never know.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:riggofan - i think that they will start Griffin as soon as they feel he's ready - we don't have the luxury of holding him out

I don't think we're making the playoffs no matter what and with that in mind, I'd rather wait a few games and let him get in more work before they put him back in - he definitely needs the playing time but why rush it like I think they will

Those seem to be conflicting stances. Either we can afford to keep him out, or we can't. Which one is it?

I'll give you two reasons why he needs to go back in as soon as possible.
1: In 2012 we went on a 10 game winning streak to finish out the year, and win the division. It could happen again, but not without RGIII.
2: We have to decide at the end of the season if we're going to exercise the 5th year option on RGIII, and need to evaluate if he can get back to the level of play we saw in 2012. I can't imagine that they would not exercise the option, but you never know.

I have already decided (formed the opinion) that we should exercise the option for the 5th year. I would not be averse to sitting him the rest of the year. I do agree that we will not run off 10 in a row without RGIII.

I also agree that the highlighted stances are conflicting.

You're right guys - I mean't that IMO the coaches & FO will feel that they need to get Griffin in there

and

if it were my call, it's not that big a deal to get him the playing time he obviously needs ... he's going to be all fired up to try and make things happen behind this O line and without a good run game IMO we're risking too much when we're not going anywhere anyway - not with this bunch anyway

I'm not giving up on things - I still hope we win every NFC East game but ....

Griffin IMO is going to be a really good QB next season - let's not just put him in there just because he's the best QB on the roster now

if he's ready and these guys can game plan to get better play from both the O line and the run game, I'm OK with that - I just don't see it

SkinsJock wrote:McCoy and Cousins are the back up QBs here - always were, still are - McCoy is now starting until Griffin can play

I doubt that anyone other than some stupid fans, thought that Cousins had a chance at being the starting QB over Griffin - NO WAY

If the Skins were sitting at 5-2 right now, there would be no discussion as to who the starter was.

My point was simple: if McCoy knows he's not the starter once Griffin returns, knows that he doesn't have a legitimate shot to "audition" as a starter for other teams, and knows that no matter what he's still the back up, than what is the incentive for him to play good? So he can move up to #2 on the depth chart? If McCoy was in his mid 30's, I would say that this is true. But he's only 28. And in his mind, he never got a fair shake in Cleveland. So, from what I've gathered on what McCoy has said in his pressers, he wants a legitimate shot at starting again. But Gruden's already nixed that idea.

Let McCoy start. If he plays well and the Redskins beat the Cowboys, great. Let him start another game and rest Griffin another week. If he wins that game too, great. Let him start another game and rest Griffin another week. Once opposing teams start planning for McCoy and can study some tape on him in this offense, I think he will start to struggle. But we might get a couple of effective games out of him if opposing teams do not know what to plan for. And if a couple of wins boots his trade value, good for him and good for the Redskins.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:McCoy and Cousins are the back up QBs here - always were, still are - McCoy is now starting until Griffin can play - I doubt that anyone other than some stupid fans, thought that Cousins had a chance at being the starting QB over Griffin - NO WAY

If the Skins were sitting at 5-2 right now, there would be no discussion as to who the starter was.

the Skins are not 5-2 and the starting QB is Griffin as soon as he's ready - until then it looks like McCoy

My point was simple: if McCoy knows he's not the starter once Griffin returns, knows that he doesn't have a legitimate shot to "audition" as a starter for other teams, and knows that no matter what he's still the back up, than what is the incentive for him to play good? So he can move up to #2 on the depth chart? If McCoy was in his mid 30's, I would say that this is true. But he's only 28. And in his mind, he never got a fair shake in Cleveland. So, from what I've gathered on what McCoy has said in his pressers, he wants a legitimate shot at starting again. But Gruden's already nixed that idea.

sorry - that's just not how it works - McCoy understands his role and he's a QB in the NFL - you are so wrong if you think that a QB can just go out there and not give it everything he's got - ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?

that's just flat out S T U P I D - big time

Snout wrote:Let McCoy start. If he plays well and the Redskins beat the Cowboys, great. Let him start another game and rest Griffin another week. If he wins that game too, great. Let him start another game and rest Griffin another week. Once opposing teams start planning for McCoy and can study some tape on him in this offense, I think he will start to struggle. But we might get a couple of effective games out of him if opposing teams do not know what to plan for. And if a couple of wins boots his trade value, good for him and good for the Redskins.

WRONG

SkinsJock wrote:sorry - that's just not how it works - McCoy understands his role and he's a QB in the NFL - you are so wrong if you think that a QB can just go out there and not give it everything he's got - ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?

that's just flat out S T U P I D - big time

Oh Jesus, I'll try to make it simplified:

McCoy would not have signed on this team (as soon as he did) to be a 3rd string QB all season. He's young, he likes Gruden, AND he wants a shot to start again. McCoy is going to go out and play his heart out to prove that he can start effectively in this league, and that Cleveland was an abomination when he started. He signed with the Skins, IMO, knowing that there were 2 young QB's on the roster with limited experience that could conceivably struggle and/or get injured (guess what it happened) so he could get his shot again. Gruden has already said he's the placeholder for Griffin. IMO, he should have went the vague route ("Cross that bridge when we come to it") like he did with Cousins. Make McCoy think he has a legitimate shot to unseat the starter (even if in reality he doesn't).

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:riggofan - i think that they will start Griffin as soon as they feel he's ready - we don't have the luxury of holding him out

I don't think we're making the playoffs no matter what and with that in mind, I'd rather wait a few games and let him get in more work before they put him back in - he definitely needs the playing time but why rush it like I think they will

Those seem to be conflicting stances. Either we can afford to keep him out, or we can't. Which one is it?

I'll give you two reasons why he needs to go back in as soon as possible.
1: In 2012 we went on a 10 game winning streak to finish out the year, and win the division. It could happen again, but not without RGIII.
2: We have to decide at the end of the season if we're going to exercise the 5th year option on RGIII, and need to evaluate if he can get back to the level of play we saw in 2012. I can't imagine that they would not exercise the option, but you never know.

Deadskins, I agree with you especially on your second reason. With the current state of the defense, the 10 game winning streak seems unlikely even with a 2012 version of RGIII. But you're completely right that we need to see him play to evaluate him. This year has probably answered a lot of questions about Kirk Cousins. We need to answer some of those same questions about Griffin.

I do not think most of us including the coaches have the same concerns about Griffin - Cousins was the back up and was given a shot at both helping the team until Griffin was ready to play again and hopefully make the most of his opportunity to maybe be worth some more to another team if he decided he did not want to be the back up here

some thought that Cousins might be a better QB than Griffin - I did not and I really don't think the FO or Gruden thought that either

When he's ready, Griffin will be starting again but I do not think he needs anything more than more time to develop some skills that Gruden (and Griffin) think will make him a better QB than we've seen since he became an NFL QB

I am not worried that Griffin will become a better QB - he will

the real benefit of that development is going to be next season when we have a chance to replace a lot of the players on this squad

HAIL

Should he be the #2 next season...not Kirk? I think so!

Let's worry about that after this season us over.

EA7649 wrote:Should he be the #2 next season...not Kirk? I think so!

I think that was the plan all along to be honest. Trade Kirk this offseason and have McCoy ready to be the backup for RGIII next year.

Its weird though. That plan might not play out the way people might have expected a few months ago. Not sure that Cousins' trade value is very high. It could end up being McCoy who plays well enough that some QB needy team wants to give him a shot next year. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

riggofan wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Should he be the #2 next season...not Kirk? I think so!

I think that was the plan all along to be honest. Trade Kirk this offseason and have McCoy ready to be the backup for RGIII next year.

Its weird though. That plan might not play out the way people might have expected a few months ago. Not sure that Cousins' trade value is very high. It could end up being McCoy who plays well enough that some QB needy team wants to give him a shot next year. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I agree. And that'd be something if McCoy had some trade value. But I would rather keep him if you don't get more than a 4th round pick, maybe 5th round

That QB draw...that was enough to convince me McCoy is a keeper.

No question Colt starts against Minnesota IMO. RGIII needs the next couple weeks to keep back into the swing of things we need RGIII 100% mentally and physically ready for those last 7 games.

EA7649 wrote:

riggofan wrote:

EA7649 wrote:Should he be the #2 next season...not Kirk? I think so!

I think that was the plan all along to be honest. Trade Kirk this offseason and have McCoy ready to be the backup for RGIII next year.

Its weird though. That plan might not play out the way people might have expected a few months ago. Not sure that Cousins' trade value is very high. It could end up being McCoy who plays well enough that some QB needy team wants to give him a shot next year. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I agree. And that'd be something if McCoy had some trade value. But I would rather keep him if you don't get more than a 4th round pick, maybe 5th round

He's only on a one year contract so there will be no trading McCoy. Cousins is a different story.

^Oh than if the price is reasonable I wouldn't mind signing him again. And I honestly think we would have beaten the Cards if McCoy started NOT COUSINS

EA7649 wrote:I honestly think we would have beaten the Cards if McCoy started NOT COUSINS

Possibly the Smeagols and vaGiants too.

Deadskins wrote:

EA7649 wrote:I honestly think we would have beaten the Cards if McCoy started NOT COUSINS

Possibly the Smeagols and vaGiants too.

Maybe. But, the Giants had the Redskins number throughout the whole game, but Cousins made it TERRIBLE, so it might have been closer. And I think Cousins played a good game against the Eagles, except the the 4th quarter. Plus it was a high scoring game, idk how Colt would have done with that bc he can't just manage the game there. Idk if I'm explaining it well.

I understand what you are saying, but I have to wonder "what if" about Cousins' INTs.

welch wrote:That QB draw...that was enough to convince me McCoy is a keeper.

Yeah, Colt is pretty quick on the draw!

His play script is also more Griffin-esque than is Kirk's.