The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:It's interesting how many of the trade Griffin crowd have less than 20 posts.

lol. Need a place to vent.

chiefhog44 wrote:Robert will have growing pains guys.

It definitely happened with Cam Newton in his second year, didn't it? And he wasn't coming off major knee surgery.

RGIII will be fine. I'm so not concerned about his ability to develop as a QB or the draft picks we used on him. My only concern with him is staying healthy.

Religion requires a leap of faith, many here made a great leap of faith with Griffin. Seduced by a bright shining vision when he was drafted that was reinforced by his first season heroics they now see Griffin as their hero struggling before his triumphant. If he was alive Joseph Campbell could tell us a lot about the Griffin devotees. The larger their investment in the Griffin myth the more difficult it is for them to believe their lying eyes and see that another reckless Redskin gamble has crapped out. Snyder finds solace in the Griffin jersey sales but what about the rest of us? Where do the rubes who bought the Griffin jerseys go for comfort?

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:It's interesting how many of the trade Griffin crowd have less than 20 posts.

lol. Need a place to vent.

More likely, need a place to troll.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I really don't understand the fascination with Wilson. He's on a team that's loaded with talent on both sides of the ball, and he's nothing more than an above average game manager, IMO. He's not even in the same league as Griffin and Luck. I agree about Kaepernick. Overrated and already figured out.

I wouldn't make the assumption that because a QB plays mistake-free football, he is a game manager. I was at a lunch with 5 others and said RGIII was a bettter QB than Wilson with more upside ----- and not one single person agreed with me. Wilson is 6th in the league in TDs, 8th in QBR, and has more yards than Cam Newton. He also has 5 more TDs, 4 less INTs, 20+ higher QBR and overall QB Rating, and a 1.3 higher yards per pass avg than RGIII. If you look at this objectively, I'm not sure how you can make the statement that Wilson is not "even in the same league as Griffin and Luck". Actually, based on this season alone, you could actually say the opposite given the stats and team record.

I can theoretically see how you make the game manager if you blindly look at his team and record -- especially with his OL and RB. However, his receiving core is not even average. After all, Tate has been his #1 WR this year with his 2 and 3 being Baldwin and Kearse. His TE, Miller is average at best. I would easily take Garcon, Moss, Hank and Reed over that bunch. I would also take Morris over Lynch (although some may dispute that). Wilson has a decent OL, but he's been sacked 7 MORE times than RGIII this season.....

While Kaepernick is a different story, you need to take those B&G glasses off. Purely based on play this season, RGIII has been a bottom 10 starting QB in the league. Wilson and Luck are in the top 10 without question.

we did not get RG3 (OR make the trade) based on what he would do at the early stages of his career …

Bruce & Mike brought in RG3 because they thought that he would be the better QB for this franchise over the course of his career

I'm glad they decided to bring in Robert Griffin III, they may have made a big mistake …

I think that he will be a better QB for the Redskins (given time) than Luck or Wilson

I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

thank you for this post …

we will be fine with this QB and we are not in nearly as bad shape as some here are thinking

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

I'm not sure that's fair. You seem to be overstating the ability of the Seattle offensive line, which has actually struggled quite a bit in pass protection this season, primarily due to injuries.

Recap from the Rams/Seahawks game...

No team can win this way. No team should win this way, not with an offensive line this bad. The Seattle Seahawks have won ugly several times this season. This one was beyond ugly...It’s commendable, but this is not a Super Bowl-caliber team; not right now, anyway. No team can reach a Super Bowl with an offensive line that played the way this one did Monday night.

Russell Wilson was sacked seven times, with pass protection becoming a problem that keeps getting worse. And the run blocking wasn’t any better.

http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawks/post/_/id/1465/seahawks-win-but-o-line-must-improve

They have been doing better lately as they have gotten healthy again, but Wilson has been sacked 29 times this season, which ranks 5th among all qb's. The main difference between Griffin and Wilson is Wilson gets rid of the ball much more quickly and doesn't hold onto it as long as Griffin, at this point. Wilson is further ahead in his development, but hopefully Bob can get there too.

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

He hasn't had to do much to win games, only three games this year has his passing yards been higher than 250 yards. The Seahawks passing game is ranked 24th out of 32 teams. What am I missing here? He's a more athletic Trent Dilfer. Obviously his turnovers are going to be lower, considering Griffin has had to throw the ball a lot more this year. There's no doubt in my mind that with Wilson the Skins record would be the same right now.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

He hasn't had to do much to win games, only three games this year has his passing yards been higher than 250 yards. The Seahawks passing game is ranked 24th out of 32 teams. What am I missing here? He's a more athletic Trent Dilfer. Obviously his turnovers are going to be lower, considering Griffin has had to throw the ball a lot more this year. There's no doubt in my mind that with Wilson the Skins record would be the same right now.

250 yards is now the cutoff? Wilson is 16th in yards, 8th in completion %, 6th in touchdowns and 2nd among quarterbacks in rush yards.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

He hasn't had to do much to win games, only three games this year has his passing yards been higher than 250 yards. The Seahawks passing game is ranked 24th out of 32 teams. What am I missing here? He's a more athletic Trent Dilfer. Obviously his turnovers are going to be lower, considering Griffin has had to throw the ball a lot more this year. There's no doubt in my mind that with Wilson the Skins record would be the same right now.

Not having to do much to win games doesn't make a player less talented or a "game manager". Espeically when Wilson has a poor WR core and more-or-kess below average OL. I think you are grossly underestimating what he does. Perhaps you should watch him play and not read the box scores.......

As far as INTs, look at Wilson's %s. They are also lower.

And I'm glad there is no doubt in your mind, but I think the overwhelming majority of non-skin/seahawk fans would disagree with you.

Countertrey wrote:I just don't get Stomin's thinking...
Wilson is clearly a talented and dynamic player, who fits the "franchise" mold for Seattle... He will have an outstanding career wherever he plays, but he currently plays behind a very solid o-line that is capable of pass blocking when needed. In DC, he would be struggling just as is Bob... perhaps a bit less so, because he spent more time behind center in college... but struggling none the less. He would NEVER find the throwing lanes here that he gets currently in Seattle... Our line is not competent to move players when in pass pro.

Wilson's receivers routinely make ridiculous grabs for him too, as opposed to RGIII, for whom even hitting his receivers on the hands isn't enough very often. Yes, RGIII has been inaccurate this year, too, but take away several drops (or add a few of those amazing grabs that Wilson benefits from) and we have 1-3 more wins on the year so far. Things would look a lot different.

The trouble with RG3 … it's really simple - running the read option plays with the new rules would have resulted in Robert taking some bad hits and he is having a difficult time with the transition - I think initially (even though the knee was healed enough to play on and take a hit) he was tentative and that over time led to him trying too hard - the pass he missed early last week was TERRIBLE but his play in general has not been very good - he's going through a tough time but he's a very special athlete and he will work his way through this
we've heard it all before but the reality is we are getting better and we do have a lot of very good, young players

Robert will continue to try as hard as he can to lift this team

there have been issues with RG3's play this season but there have been much bigger problems across the whole franchise

Griffin is also having problems planting his foot when he throws, and when there is a pocket, he doesn't seem to step up in it. A lot of analysts are saying that he's holding the ball waaaay too long, and how he panics when his first read isn't open.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Griffin is also having problems planting his foot when he throws, and when there is a pocket, he doesn't seem to step up in it. A lot of analysts are saying that he's holding the ball waaaay too long, and how he panics when his first read isn't open.

the only 'analysts' that have any credibility with Robert are Mike and Kyle - if they feel that Robert is not the right QB for the QB job, he would not be doing it

remember …

Mike did not bring in Robert to be the QB we're seeing on the field this season ….. or last season
he's here to become the QB of the future and he needs to learn a lot about being a great QB in the NFL

I'm looking forward to that

I think Jon Gruden sums it up pretty well.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... -on-rgiii/

“I see an athletic quarterback that’s doing similar things that he did last year,” Gruden said this week on ESPN Radio. “He may not have the true explosiveness that he showed as a rookie, but he’s still capable of ripping a game open with his legs. But he is out of rhythm, he is missing open targets, I do think the defenses have perhaps caught up with a few things. But they’re averaging almost 400 yards a game. What I see is a lot of frustration. In consecutive weeks, they’ve had opportunities to win the game in the fourth quarter, at Minnesota, at Philadelphia, and they haven’t gotten it done. And when you don’t win at crunch time, it falls on the quarterback’s plate. And I think there’s a lot of frustration right now, obviously, in Washington.”

I like Jon Gruden - maybe in a year or 2, when Mike leaves, we can get a HC like Gruden ..

I hope the next guy is a 'players coach' like Gibbs and Gruden and not a HC like Belicheat or Mike

I am sure that we'll get someone that's excited about working with a QB like Robert

This is actually a pretty good article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

Then there were those Griffin-initiated modifications to the offense. During the offseason, Griffin, through his father Robert Jr., lobbied publicly for major changes in the team’s option-style offense. Emboldened by being selected the 2012 NFL offensive rookie of the year, Griffin decided he was ready to prove himself as a pocket passer. His father waged a media campaign in an attempt to pressure the Shanahans to essentially scrap their spectacularly successful approach that led the NFL in rushing last season, tied for first in yards per play and finished third in passing efficiency.

There is plenty of crap in this article but, he hit the nail on the head about a few things

Nonetheless, the Shanahans accommodated the Griffins by installing more drop-back plays — and the results couldn’t have been worse. Earlier this season, with Griffin determined to prove his chops in the pocket, the shortcomings of the offensive line and wide receivers not named Pierre Garcon became clear.

Griffin can be that guy — but first he must get a few things straight with the one he sees in the mirror.

Robert is going through a difficult process - hopefully the hits don't shorten the career

as the saying goes 'the best lessons are often learned from the mistakes we make"

Tonight will be a good test against the 49ers for Griffin.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Tonight will be a good test against the 49ers for Griffin.

Yep, and minus a couple of his targets. If he can pull this one off I'll be impressed.

If we lose tonight, the media is going to spin every little piece of information to push the point that there's a rift between Griffin and Shanahan, or Griffin and the locker room.

^^ are you kidding - the media is going to spin everything and anything they can, whenever they can …

winning or losing - the mediots will continue to pursue any storyline they feel will help their cause

The race this season is over with 5 games on the schedule. I think Griffin ought to be benched, we know what he can do and it is far below NFL starter standards. Play Cousins and see what he can do, Griffin loses games by 20 maybe Cousins can do better.