The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I just moved and signed back up as a new customer. So excited to get it for free after paying like $450 a year for it.

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

Who sets the price for the exclusive rights to the Ticket?

The market. DirectTV outbid the competition. So you expect the NFL to say: "No, please don't offer us more money; we have enough revenue already, and don't want to appear greedy."? Anyway, TV revenues are used to set the salary cap. So the players get more money too.

No, I expect the powers that are in the NFL to be smart enough to realize how much MORE money they could be making if they made the Ticket available to EVERYONE, not just DirecTV subscribers, while at the same time being able to offer the Ticket at a lower price because more people would subscribe.....it isn't rocket science...

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:I guess I just don't understand why some of you seem to be against me on this. Greed kills and I think the NFL is simply being greedy with the overall price of the Ticket, making subscription prices too high. If it costs the league so much money just to operate, how did they ever survive BEFORE the Sunday Ticket? I personally don't think the NFL needs the revenues from the Ticket at all, therefore the money they do get from it is just gravy for them. I still say they could offer the Ticket for half it's current price and still make plenty of profit. They are simply taking advantage of their monopoly of the service and the willingness of a subscriber base to overpay for the service....

You seem to think it is the NFL that sets the price for Sunday Ticket. It is not. Direct TV paid the NFL for exclusive rights, and they are the ones who set the prices. Just like the networks pay the NFL for exclusive rights to the games they broadcast. The difference is that the networks bill advertisers to make revenue, and Direct TV bills you.

Who sets the price for the exclusive rights to the Ticket?

The market. DirectTV outbid the competition. So you expect the NFL to say: "No, please don't offer us more money; we have enough revenue already, and don't want to appear greedy."? Anyway, TV revenues are used to set the salary cap. So the players get more money too.

No, I expect the powers that are in the NFL to be smart enough to realize how much MORE money they could be making if they made the Ticket available to EVERYONE, not just DirecTV subscribers, while at the same time being able to offer the Ticket at a lower price because more people would subscribe.....it isn't rocket science...

No, it isn't. But I still don't think you understand the economics going on here. First, the Ticket is available to everyone. You simply have to subscribe to Direct TV to get it. Second, if they offered it up to every cable/satellite provider, they would get a whole lot less money for it, because the providers would be in competition with each other to lower the price to subscribers, and therefore not be able to offer up the $$$ to get the rights to the service. Third, there really aren't that many cable/satellite providers, probably less than ten nationwide. So to keep the competition out of the market, Direct TV is willing to pay a premium to get exclusive rights. They don't even make their money back selling the Ticket, but are willing to pay extra just to get the increased revenue through the number of subscriptions. They would have far less subscribers if they weren't the only ones to carry it. It's like the networks, who pay far more than the ad revenue during games brings in, because they can carry viewers over after games end, and advertise their shows during games, which brings in viewers during non-football time slots.

You also have to consider some cable companies won't pick it up. I think it's Comcast who said that he doesn't want his Non-football fan's to bear any expense related to the NFL. That is why they won't agree on NFL Network channel even on a premium channel package.

frankcal20 wrote:You also have to consider some cable companies won't pick it up. I think it's Comcast who said that he doesn't want his Non-football fan's to bear any expense related to the NFL. That is why they won't agree on NFL Network channel even on a premium channel package.

I have Comcast, and get the NFL Network as part of my HD package. If you want The Red Zone, though, you have to pay $5 per month for the sports package. They did have a fight with the NFL a couple of years ago, because they wanted to put NFLN in a premium package, and the NFL said they had to offer it as part of the basic cable package.

grampi wrote:No, I expect the powers that are in the NFL to be smart enough to realize how much MORE money they could be making if they made the Ticket available to EVERYONE, not just DirecTV subscribers, while at the same time being able to offer the Ticket at a lower price because more people would subscribe.....it isn't rocket science...

You have to look at total revenue, not just Sunday Ticket revenue. Having spent my career in GE management and management consulting I can assure you there are not naively leaving money on the table.

As I've been pointing out, local games aren't free, they are paid for by local advertisers. National games are paid for by national advertisers. When you watch local games in another part of the country, no one is paying for you, you have to do it yourself. If you don't, that is leaving money on the table. And if they lower price and get more people to pay, they are cannibalizing the ad revenue that allows people to watch their local games over the air.

Deadskins wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:You also have to consider some cable companies won't pick it up. I think it's Comcast who said that he doesn't want his Non-football fan's to bear any expense related to the NFL. That is why they won't agree on NFL Network channel even on a premium channel package.

I have Comcast, and get the NFL Network as part of my HD package. If you want The Red Zone, though, you have to pay $5 per month for the sports package. They did have a fight with the NFL a couple of years ago, because they wanted to put NFLN in a premium package, and the NFL said they had to offer it as part of the basic cable package.

It's one of the companies that my inlaws have. I'm so pissed when I go over and he asks ME why he doesn't get it. I tell him it's b/c he doesn't have satalite.

chiefhog44 wrote:I just moved and signed back up as a new customer. So excited to get it for free after paying like $450 a year for it.

say what explain please

Let me see if I can break this down to explain to you how the NFL could make more money, and more people could have access to the Ticket at a much lower than current subscription rate.

Since I don't know how much DTV pays for the exclusive rights each year, I'll use a random number as an example.

Let's say DTV pays $100 million each year for the rights. Now let's say the NFL decides to allow Dish Network and Comcast to offer the Ticket to their customers as well as DTV. Now instead of the NFL charging only DTV $100 million, they can offer it to all 3 providers for $50 million each. This brings the NFL 50% more revenues each year compared to offering exclusive rights to DTV, AND it lowers Ticket subscription rates by 50%, AND it makes the Ticket available to 3 times as many subscribers. I'm not seeing a down side for anyone, the NFL, service providers, or the customers...

grampi wrote:Let me see if I can break this down to explain to you how the NFL could make more money, and more people could have access to the Ticket at a much lower than current subscription rate.

Since I don't know how much DTV pays for the exclusive rights each year, I'll use a random number as an example.

Let's say DTV pays $100 million each year for the rights. Now let's say the NFL decides to allow Dish Network and Comcast to offer the Ticket to their customers as well as DTV. Now instead of the NFL charging only DTV $100 million, they can offer it to all 3 providers for $50 million each. This brings the NFL 50% more revenues each year compared to offering exclusive rights to DTV, AND it lowers Ticket subscription rates by 50%, AND it makes the Ticket available to 3 times as many subscribers. I'm not seeing a down side for anyone, the NFL, service providers, or the customers...

But your example is not realistic; you are just coughing up numbers out of your behind. First, there is a contract in place, so the NFL can't just "decide" to offer it to other providers. Second, if they did offer it to other providers, then the value would dramatically drop. It's called supply and demand.

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:Let me see if I can break this down to explain to you how the NFL could make more money, and more people could have access to the Ticket at a much lower than current subscription rate.

Since I don't know how much DTV pays for the exclusive rights each year, I'll use a random number as an example.

Let's say DTV pays $100 million each year for the rights. Now let's say the NFL decides to allow Dish Network and Comcast to offer the Ticket to their customers as well as DTV. Now instead of the NFL charging only DTV $100 million, they can offer it to all 3 providers for $50 million each. This brings the NFL 50% more revenues each year compared to offering exclusive rights to DTV, AND it lowers Ticket subscription rates by 50%, AND it makes the Ticket available to 3 times as many subscribers. I'm not seeing a down side for anyone, the NFL, service providers, or the customers...

But your example is not realistic; you are just coughing up numbers out of your behind. First, there is a contract in place, so the NFL can't just "decide" to offer it to other providers. Second, if they did offer it to other providers, then the value would dramatically drop. It's called supply and demand.

It doesn't matter what the actual numbers are, my proportions are correct. Also, the contract with DTV isn't forever, it expires, and that's when the NFL could make the change. The value wouldn't drop. In case you haven't noticed, the NFL is the most popular, and most watched sport in America. That wouldn't change just because the Ticket is offered through more service providers....

No, your proportions are not correct.

grampi wrote:Let me see if I can break this down to explain to you how the NFL could make more money, and more people could have access to the Ticket at a much lower than current subscription rate.

Since I don't know how much DTV pays for the exclusive rights each year, I'll use a random number as an example.

Let's say DTV pays $100 million each year for the rights. Now let's say the NFL decides to allow Dish Network and Comcast to offer the Ticket to their customers as well as DTV. Now instead of the NFL charging only DTV $100 million, they can offer it to all 3 providers for $50 million each. This brings the NFL 50% more revenues each year compared to offering exclusive rights to DTV, AND it lowers Ticket subscription rates by 50%, AND it makes the Ticket available to 3 times as many subscribers. I'm not seeing a down side for anyone, the NFL, service providers, or the customers...

And what you're missing as I keep pointing out and you keep not responding to is that ratings go down which means ad revenue goes down and they ultimately lose money there. Which is why I said you have to look at all the factors, not just the ones you want to.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:Let me see if I can break this down to explain to you how the NFL could make more money, and more people could have access to the Ticket at a much lower than current subscription rate.

Since I don't know how much DTV pays for the exclusive rights each year, I'll use a random number as an example.

Let's say DTV pays $100 million each year for the rights. Now let's say the NFL decides to allow Dish Network and Comcast to offer the Ticket to their customers as well as DTV. Now instead of the NFL charging only DTV $100 million, they can offer it to all 3 providers for $50 million each. This brings the NFL 50% more revenues each year compared to offering exclusive rights to DTV, AND it lowers Ticket subscription rates by 50%, AND it makes the Ticket available to 3 times as many subscribers. I'm not seeing a down side for anyone, the NFL, service providers, or the customers...

And what you're missing as I keep pointing out and you keep not responding to is that ratings go down which means ad revenue goes down and they ultimately lose money there. Which is why I said you have to look at all the factors, not just the ones you want to.

I'm not following your reasoning. You're claiming that if the Ticket were available through all service providers, the ratings of the NFL would drop? That doesn't make any sense.

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

grampi wrote:I'm not following your reasoning. You're claiming that if the Ticket were available through all service providers, the ratings of the NFL would drop? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not explaining it again. You don't want to get it, you want the game for free. I don't want to pay for the game, but I don't expect it for free so I don't have a problem with it.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:I'm not following your reasoning. You're claiming that if the Ticket were available through all service providers, the ratings of the NFL would drop? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not explaining it again. You don't want to get it, you want the game for free. I don't want to pay for the game, but I don't expect it for free so I don't have a problem with it.

That's what I thought, you just like to argue.....

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:I'm not following your reasoning. You're claiming that if the Ticket were available through all service providers, the ratings of the NFL would drop? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not explaining it again. You don't want to get it, you want the game for free. I don't want to pay for the game, but I don't expect it for free so I don't have a problem with it.

That's what I thought, you just like to argue.....

No duh, but that isn't what you just proved. You proved there is a limit, a point where I realize it's a waste of time because you aren't engaged in the discussion just telling me what you want.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:I'm not following your reasoning. You're claiming that if the Ticket were available through all service providers, the ratings of the NFL would drop? That doesn't make any sense.

I'm not explaining it again. You don't want to get it, you want the game for free. I don't want to pay for the game, but I don't expect it for free so I don't have a problem with it.

That's what I thought, you just like to argue.....

No duh, but that isn't what you just proved. You proved there is a limit, a point where I realize it's a waste of time because you aren't engaged in the discussion just telling me what you want.

You've made your position known. You clearly don't care how much the Ticket costs, so you come at it from that perspective. I say there are better ways to offer the Ticket than the way it's currntly offered. I am fully engaged in the discussion, however, you just want to argue....

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

Like Kazoo, I'm tired of repeating the explanation of this. If there are more providers, each would pay far less to get the rights to broadcast it, because said rights are not exclusive. You made up numbers to try and prove your point, but I don't think those numbers were anywhere near realistic. It's the same with Madden. EA pays a premium for the rights because they are exclusive. Without competition, there are few changes in the game from year to year, but they can still charge big bucks because it is the only game in town. When selling the exclusive rights, it's basically an auction, and the rights go to the highest bidder. If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

For the last time, the number of subscribers has nothing to do with the NFL's revenue, because that is determined after the rights have already been sold.

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

grampi wrote:

Deadskins wrote:No, your proportions are not correct.

So you're saying the NFL couldn't make more money if the Ticket were made available from all the service providers, and Ticket subscription rates couldn't be lowered?

No. subscription rates would definitely go down if there was more competition, but the NFL would not be getting more revenue. That's where your argument falls apart.

I don't see how. Please explain.

If there were ten licenses, then the selling price would not rise to 1/10 of what it is for a single, exclusive license.

That's where I think you're wrong. If there were ten providers, there would be 10 times as many people that would have access to the Ticket, therefore I believe the total revenues the NFL would see would be much higher than what they get for selling exclusive rights.

For the last time, the number of subscribers has nothing to do with the NFL's revenue, because that is determined after the rights have already been sold.

The number of subscribers has EVERYTHING to do with it. It determines how much a provider would be willing to pay the NFL for a slice of the rights. I can't imagine ANY service provider who wouldn't expect very high numbers of their customers who would want the Ticket (considering the subscription price would be much lower then, of course).