The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Great Spec Ops mission. The US was led by one of the most experienced and educated special forces commanders in the world. Preparation, practice and execution at its best.

For those who want to know a bit about his thinking:

Spec Ops is a fantastic book written by him around the analyses of some of the most famous and important Spec Ops during and after WWII.

Good stuff if you want to learn more about this legend of a man. If you see him in a photograph and they told you he was a journalist, you would believe it! You would NEVER suspect he is the man he is ... until you meet him (or read him, he is a great writer because ... he studied journalism originally ).

I wish the public relations, accuracy of facts and media spin of the outcome would have been handled by the civilians as well as the military side was. Very frustrating.

Cappster wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Cappster wrote:It will always be a never ending cycle where I kill your people and you kill my people

This is such a ridiculous characterization of what happened. They kill civilians, we kill them, the terrorists. Sure cappster, it's the same.

I drink a toast to the troops who wasted his sorry butt and wish on him what he brought on others. I'd piss on his grave, but I'll settle for drinking a toast and celebrating.

Huh? How much "collateral damage" aka killing innocent civilians has the US been the cause of over the years? Anyway, I am glad that Osama is dead, poof, gone, etc... I was simply stating that the world is unfortunate in the way that we have to resort to fighting and killing each other over irresolvable differences.

You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

At what point does that cease making all the difference? The tens/hundreds of thousands of killed innocents and their families may not necessarily take solace knowing that soldiers were mostly not targeting them.

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

At what point does that cease making all the difference? The tens/hundreds of thousands of killed innocents and their families may not necessarily take solace knowing that soldiers were mostly not targeting them.

So true.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't get it. Whomever doesn't agree with killing this terrorist please, give us an alternate way to handle this terrorist situation. You don't support killing the alleged terrorist that was behind attacking us on American soil in one of our most densely populated areas.

What do you want to do, since he shouldn't have been killed? You want to give him a hug?

I do worry about the repercussions, as I said earlier, but that doesn't mean I didn't have a feeling of contentment and satisfaction knowing this bastard is dead. And I'm not ashamed of it one bit. I worry every day about my brothers and sisters in arms in harm's way b/c of that terrorist act and others like it, that cause them to be deployed (allegedly) in America's best interest.

Some people deserve to die IMO. Call it hate, call it justice, call it what you will, but it needs to be done. Maybe some people don't have the intestinal fortitude to come to terms with the fact that the world is a nasty and dangerous place at times, but I do, and I commend the action and what it represents. I just with it was done 9 years ago.

If the fact that this guy was murdered helps people cope with 9/11, then so be it. But I doubt it will make much difference that he's dead after several years have passed, unless of course, it actually fuels another round of killing of our own innocent civilians. Then people will question the intellegence of it...no?

At some point, people have to treat each other differently, and if the people of the US truely believe that the US is not guilty of anything in this conflict, then that will never happen.

How should we have dealt with OBL? not sure, I'm not suggesting I do. I just know this is not going to help end this, so I (for one) am not going to cheer in the street chanting U.S.A!

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

At what point does that cease making all the difference? The tens/hundreds of thousands of killed innocents and their families may not necessarily take solace knowing that soldiers were mostly not targeting them.

It's a gray world and I don't have any easy answers. I agree with you (hence the term gray) that it doesn't make "all" the difference. But there clearly is a difference. But you have to get into every situation and assess it, I can't give a formula. One thing that you and I would do differently is just be in fewer people's business and therefore we'd have a lot less gray situations to have to deal with. But if someone attacks the US then we strike back and hard or all we're going to do is end up having a lot more civilians killed.

The most obvious difference though is that when you're targeting civilians you're trying to maximize civilian deaths. When you're targeting terrorists you're trying to not only minimize civilian deaths but prevent future ones. And a lot of those "collateral" deaths aren't so innocent.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

At what point does that cease making all the difference? The tens/hundreds of thousands of killed innocents and their families may not necessarily take solace knowing that soldiers were mostly not targeting them.

It's a gray world and I don't have any easy answers. I agree with you (hence the term gray) that it doesn't make "all" the difference. But there clearly is a difference. But you have to get into every situation and assess it, I can't give a formula. One thing that you and I would do differently is just be in fewer people's business and therefore we'd have a lot less gray situations to have to deal with. But if someone attacks the US then we strike back and hard or all we're going to do is end up having a lot more civilians killed.

The most obvious difference though is that when you're targeting civilians you're trying to maximize civilian deaths. When you're targeting terrorists you're trying to not only minimize civilian deaths but prevent future ones. And a lot of those "collateral" deaths aren't so innocent.

The problem I have with this thinking is that you and MANY other people feel like his attack was the beginning, that he started it and we were just retaliating, and that is VERY naive.

chiefhog44 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:You're still failing to find a distinction between targeting bad guys and targeting civilians

At what point does that cease making all the difference? The tens/hundreds of thousands of killed innocents and their families may not necessarily take solace knowing that soldiers were mostly not targeting them.

It's a gray world and I don't have any easy answers. I agree with you (hence the term gray) that it doesn't make "all" the difference. But there clearly is a difference. But you have to get into every situation and assess it, I can't give a formula. One thing that you and I would do differently is just be in fewer people's business and therefore we'd have a lot less gray situations to have to deal with. But if someone attacks the US then we strike back and hard or all we're going to do is end up having a lot more civilians killed.

The most obvious difference though is that when you're targeting civilians you're trying to maximize civilian deaths. When you're targeting terrorists you're trying to not only minimize civilian deaths but prevent future ones. And a lot of those "collateral" deaths aren't so innocent.

The problem I have with this thinking is that you and MANY other people feel like his attack was the beginning, that he started it and we were just retaliating, and that is VERY naive.

Actually you're wrong on both counts, I didn't say that, I don't think that. In fact I said the reverse. I'll make it clearer for you, it's in red since you didn't find it on your own.

But that doesn't mean that when we are attacked we just blame ourselves and walk away. I don't walk through Harlem at night with $200 hanging out of my pockets. But if I did and got robbed and the criminal was arrested, that doesn't mean I wouldn't prosecute them.

chiefhog44 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't get it. Whomever doesn't agree with killing this terrorist please, give us an alternate way to handle this terrorist situation. You don't support killing the alleged terrorist that was behind attacking us on American soil in one of our most densely populated areas.

What do you want to do, since he shouldn't have been killed? You want to give him a hug?

I do worry about the repercussions, as I said earlier, but that doesn't mean I didn't have a feeling of contentment and satisfaction knowing this bastard is dead. And I'm not ashamed of it one bit. I worry every day about my brothers and sisters in arms in harm's way b/c of that terrorist act and others like it, that cause them to be deployed (allegedly) in America's best interest.

Some people deserve to die IMO. Call it hate, call it justice, call it what you will, but it needs to be done. Maybe some people don't have the intestinal fortitude to come to terms with the fact that the world is a nasty and dangerous place at times, but I do, and I commend the action and what it represents. I just with it was done 9 years ago.

If the fact that this guy was murdered helps people cope with 9/11, then so be it. But I doubt it will make much difference that he's dead after several years have passed, unless of course, it actually fuels another round of killing of our own innocent civilians. Then people will question the intellegence of it...no?

At some point, people have to treat each other differently, and if the people of the US truely believe that the US is not guilty of anything in this conflict, then that will never happen.

How should we have dealt with OBL? not sure, I'm not suggesting I do. I just know this is not going to help end this, so I (for one) am not going to cheer in the street chanting U.S.A!

You gotta stand on one side of the fence or the other.

David Letterman: "The Republicans are so happy about bin Laden they've granted President Obama full citizenship."

VetSkinsFan wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I don't get it. Whomever doesn't agree with killing this terrorist please, give us an alternate way to handle this terrorist situation. You don't support killing the alleged terrorist that was behind attacking us on American soil in one of our most densely populated areas.

What do you want to do, since he shouldn't have been killed? You want to give him a hug?

I do worry about the repercussions, as I said earlier, but that doesn't mean I didn't have a feeling of contentment and satisfaction knowing this bastard is dead. And I'm not ashamed of it one bit. I worry every day about my brothers and sisters in arms in harm's way b/c of that terrorist act and others like it, that cause them to be deployed (allegedly) in America's best interest.

Some people deserve to die IMO. Call it hate, call it justice, call it what you will, but it needs to be done. Maybe some people don't have the intestinal fortitude to come to terms with the fact that the world is a nasty and dangerous place at times, but I do, and I commend the action and what it represents. I just with it was done 9 years ago.

If the fact that this guy was murdered helps people cope with 9/11, then so be it. But I doubt it will make much difference that he's dead after several years have passed, unless of course, it actually fuels another round of killing of our own innocent civilians. Then people will question the intellegence of it...no?

At some point, people have to treat each other differently, and if the people of the US truely believe that the US is not guilty of anything in this conflict, then that will never happen.

How should we have dealt with OBL? not sure, I'm not suggesting I do. I just know this is not going to help end this, so I (for one) am not going to cheer in the street chanting U.S.A!

You gotta stand on one side of the fence or the other.

Sorry, have no idea what you are talking about. Please clarify

bin Laudin's still dead, btw...


and, I'm still freaking thrilled about it.

Countertrey wrote:bin Laudin's still dead, btw...


and, I'm still freaking thrilled about it.

What went through his mind as the seals entered the room?

A bullet...



And yes, he's still dead, it's great

chiefhog44 wrote:If the fact that this guy was murdered helps people cope with 9/11, then so be it. But I doubt it will make much difference that he's dead after several years have passed, unless of course, it actually fuels another round of killing of our own innocent civilians. Then people will question the intellegence of it...no?

Right, not responding to terrorism and tyrants has always been such a successful strategy for dealing with them. They feel bad and stop on their own. And your argument it's been "years" since 3000 people died in NY is even more convincing, we really need to just get over it and not make anyone upset or anything. People who support us are only doing that on condition that we not respond to being attacked. If we do anything they just may not support us like they have so steadfastly this time.

Speaking of steadfast support, when was the last time you did go in the streets and chant USA USA since killing terrorists doesn't do it for you?

I can't cheer for any one person's death. Good riddance to Bin Laden. I got tired of carrying around revenge. Probably it's my Methodist up-bringing...just can't escape it.

I cheer when the Redskins win a game, go delirious when they win the Super Bowl.

War is not a game. I've met too many veterans of Iraq and Afganistan to treat it as lightly as a game. Hooah?

Blessings to those who return alive; blessings to those who return hurt, and every wounded Soldier and Marine is hurt badly. Blessings to those who are killed.

If college kids want to pound their chests and cheer, let them enlist.

(For the record, for those too new to know it, my son and daughter-in-law served in the US Army 2002 - 2009. I've met a grieving woman whose son, an Army Captain, was killed leading his unit as it cleared the road for the pointless "Duelfer Commision" that hunted IEDs. My pastor's son, and Army Ranger, just returned from Afghanistan after his ninth tour of the Middle East. I know another woman who returned from the invasion in '03 with a mass of facial cuts from an RPG that hit his Hummvee; his driver lost both arms at the shoulders)

I feel relief at the killing of OBL, but this is not flag-waving time.

welch wrote:I can't cheer for any one person's death. Good riddance to Bin Laden. I got tired of carrying around revenge. Probably it's my Methodist up-bringing...just can't escape it.

I cheer when the Redskins win a game, go delirious when they win the Super Bowl.

War is not a game. I've met too many veterans of Iraq and Afganistan to treat it as lightly as a game. Hooah?

Blessings to those who return alive; blessings to those who return hurt, and every wounded Soldier and Marine is hurt badly. Blessings to those who are killed.

If college kids want to pound their chests and cheer, let them enlist.

(For the record, for those too new to know it, my son and daughter-in-law served in the US Army 2002 - 2009. I've met a grieving woman whose son, an Army Captain, was killed leading his unit as it cleared the road for the pointless "Duelfer Commision" that hunted IEDs. My pastor's son, and Army Ranger, just returned from Afghanistan after his ninth tour of the Middle East. I know another woman who returned from the invasion in '03 with a mass of facial cuts from an RPG that hit his Hummvee; his driver lost both arms at the shoulders)

I feel relief at the killing of OBL, but this is not flag-waving time.

Not sure how your last comments relate, Welch... nor can I understand how knowing someone (who may or may not agree with you) increases the force of your beliefs... who are you lecturing?

If you have the Military Channel 287 on Directv, you can watch a recent documentary on "Killing bin Laden"....

It's pretty good........

tribeofjudah wrote:If you have the Military Channel 287 on Directv, you can watch a recent documentary on "Killing bin Laden"....

It's pretty good........

Did it show Obama going though BUDS training?

Countertrey wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:If you have the Military Channel 287 on Directv, you can watch a recent documentary on "Killing bin Laden"....

It's pretty good........

Did it show Obama going though BUDS training?

Nah...he wishes. He is fish food, wait....fish poop now.

ummm... I said OBAMA, not OSAMA...

Countertrey wrote:ummm... I said OBAMA, not OSAMA...

My bad....Freudian SLIP...???

Lots of folks making that slip...
makes you wanna go hmmmmmm?

Countertrey wrote:

welch wrote:I can't cheer for any one person's death. Good riddance to Bin Laden. I got tired of carrying around revenge. Probably it's my Methodist up-bringing...just can't escape it.

I cheer when the Redskins win a game, go delirious when they win the Super Bowl.

War is not a game. I've met too many veterans of Iraq and Afganistan to treat it as lightly as a game. Hooah?

Blessings to those who return alive; blessings to those who return hurt, and every wounded Soldier and Marine is hurt badly. Blessings to those who are killed.

If college kids want to pound their chests and cheer, let them enlist.

(For the record, for those too new to know it, my son and daughter-in-law served in the US Army 2002 - 2009. I've met a grieving woman whose son, an Army Captain, was killed leading his unit as it cleared the road for the pointless "Duelfer Commision" that hunted IEDs. My pastor's son, and Army Ranger, just returned from Afghanistan after his ninth tour of the Middle East. I know another woman who returned from the invasion in '03 with a mass of facial cuts from an RPG that hit his Hummvee; his driver lost both arms at the shoulders)

I feel relief at the killing of OBL, but this is not flag-waving time.

Not sure how your last comments relate, Welch... nor can I understand how knowing someone (who may or may not agree with you) increases the force of your beliefs... who are you lecturing?

Not lecturing anybody. Trying to explain why I don't feel like waving my arms that OBL is dead. Good riddance, but I was bothered by all the college kids who acted like their team had won a game. I'm glad OBL is dead, but just don't feel the anger I felt ten years ago. Too much has happened.

Oh, and I've met too many macho young college-age kids who jump around but think they are too good to do anything but make money. Consider it over-exposure to Wall Street pups.