The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The difference in pressing charges and going to civil court is simple, the proof of guilt is far less in civil courts. By no means did the district attorney say Ben was innocent, he said he could not prove guilt in court beyond a reasonable doubt. I think we all know the reasonable doubt clause is set much higher when it comes to athletes. The assumption that these women are of low moral character and got what they deserved is the very reason many women don't come forward when assaulted.

Vet, I would have been fine had you stopped at the first woman... waiting that year sure seems suspicious, no? I have no sympathy for that first "victim". But then you said:

And it could possibly be the same scenario here.

, in referrence to the Georgia thing... The problem is, that second "event" was reported directly to a cop. No hesitating... no contemplating. Nothing in evidence at this time warrants the use of the noun you chose to use.

How am I supposed to read that as anything but a double standard?

Ben Burger is GOING DOWN IN FLAMES......yikes....

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d ... nfirm=true

I knew this was going to happen when the second incident came out. Big Ben is in trouble

Not going to be pretty.

chiefhog44 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:some of us think his judgement is more than suspect

Personally, I really hope that his conduct will result in something appropriate from both the NFL and the Steelers

The league nor the team can ban or fine him for going out to a bar. IF he is convicted, then they can do something.

The only thing the Steelers can do if he is not convicted is trade him or cut him. That's it. He is not anymore guilty of anything than the other players that went to that bar that night.

That is simply not true. Both the Steelers organization and the NFL have personal conduct rules, and they are not constrained to the "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" criteria for which criminal prosecution must meet.

And the legal troubles aren't over for him either, as civil suits don't require the same burden of proof as does criminal prosecution. (Think: OJ Simpson)

There is just too much smoke to believe there is no fire here. But, regardless of guilt or innocence, he's repeatedly put himself and the team in bad situations, which shows a guy who is out of control, and a detriment to both the Steelers and the NFL, and they ABSOLUTELY can, and probably will hand down some hash discipline ... probably not harsh enough.

I won't be surprised, with the veracity of the "bodyguards" and some investigating cops falling apart, to see criminal evidence that was not present before may come into play . While charges for rape or sexual assault may not return, the possibility of charges for obstruction of justice or conspiracy may crop up, which could certainly engulf old Ben along with his "protectors". Those would not require the cooperation of the "victim", as this is separate from allegations of rape.

chiefhog44 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:some of us think his judgement is more than suspect
Personally, I really hope that his conduct will result in something appropriate from both the NFL and the Steelers

The league nor the team can ban or fine him for going out to a bar. IF he is convicted, then they can do something.

are you up to speed on how much trouble Roethlisberger is in now that the GBI has concluded they are not going to press charges here?

The only thing the Steelers can do if he is not convicted is trade him or cut him. That's it. He is not anymore guilty of anything than the other players that went to that bar that night.

are you kidding us? - do you not have any idea on what has happened since the NFL conduct policy has been in place?

do you really understand that many of these players sign personal conduct clauses with their franchises? do you really follow this sport and fully understand what happens to NFL players like Ben that ride motorcycles without their helmets which is a perfectly "legal" thing to do in many states

Roethlisberger investigation botched by Milledgeville Police

http://www.theredzone.org/BlogDescripti ... fault.aspx

Jonathan D. Silver of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reports about eight hours after the 20-year-old student at Georgia College and State University accused Mr. Roethlisberger of raping her in the restroom, a janitor scrubbed the sink, floor and toilet with Clorox and Pine-Sol.

To the chagrin of investigators, no one had told him not to. The only evidence collected from the bathroom did not yield useful results.

"In this type of case, usually your highest and best evidence is found on your victim. However, in an effort to be as thorough as possible, you always process the scene as well," said Tom Davis, special agent in charge of GBI's Milledgeville field office.

Attorney Alexander Lindsay, a former federal and state prosecutor in Western Pennsylvania, said GBI "worked the hell out of this case but it was muffed at the beginning" by Milledgeville police. Mr. Lindsay, who teaches law at the University of Pittsburgh, reviewed the case file, most of which was posted online by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

It is possible that DNA or other evidence of sexual contact could have been obtained from the bathroom.

"The bathroom was unsecured and washed with Pine-Sol. At that point, it was a factor in not only not having evidence, but a defense attorney was going to say the police botched the investigation," Mr. Lindsay said.

It was not until four hours after the bathroom was cleaned that the Milledgeville Police Department called in Agent Davis's investigators.

"Some agencies do wait to call, however we prefer to be called when the police respond and assess what they have," Agent Davis said. "The sooner the better for maximizing the potential for a successful investigation."

Milledgeville police Chief Woodrow W. Blue said a 12-hour wait was about normal before calling in state investigators. He said his department handles between three and six rapes a year, and Chief Blue said it was of no consequence that the bathroom had not been sealed off.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10108/10 ... z0lTDkobp7

SkinsJock wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:some of us think his judgement is more than suspect
Personally, I really hope that his conduct will result in something appropriate from both the NFL and the Steelers

The league nor the team can ban or fine him for going out to a bar. IF he is convicted, then they can do something.

are you up to speed on how much trouble Roethlisberger is in now that the GBI has concluded they are not going to press charges here?

The only thing the Steelers can do if he is not convicted is trade him or cut him. That's it. He is not anymore guilty of anything than the other players that went to that bar that night.

are you kidding us? - do you not have any idea on what has happened since the NFL conduct policy has been in place?

do you really understand that many of these players sign personal conduct clauses with their franchises? do you really follow this sport and fully understand what happens to NFL players like Ben that ride motorcycles without their helmets which is a perfectly "legal" thing to do in many states

No I guess I don't understand it. Looks like you don't have to be convicted of anything to get a fine.

Ben Rothlesraper. I coined it first people. My inlaws are Steelers fans, and they thought it was hilarious. What do you think

Rothlesraper? Naaaaaaaaaaaw, I can't even jump aboard that ship since the dude hasn't never been charged with rape.

How about Rothlesbarhopper? Rothlescollegegirlstalker?

langleyparkjoe wrote:Rothlesraper? Naaaaaaaaaaaw, I can't even jump aboard that ship since the dude hasn't never been charged with rape.

How about Rothlesbarhopper? Rothlescollegegirlstalker?

Ralphylassbanger

They're calling him Rapelesburger in Pittsburgh. I like my name better

chiefhog44 wrote:They're calling him Rapelesburger in Pittsburgh. I like my name better

Mike&Mike were saying Pitt is entertaining trade offers for him so they need to know what goodell will do

chiefhog44 wrote:No I guess I don't understand it. Looks like you don't have to be convicted of anything to get a fine.

I guess there are still some people and fans that don't seem to understand that the NFL's personal conduct policy is not associated with the laws of today's society - this is more to do with players actions that are considered harmful to the NFL's image

Roethlisberger looks like he will be suspended for a number of games because he (in Goodell's judgement) conducted himself in a way that was harmful to the NFL's image, even though his actions were deemed to be not 'illegal' according to the GA police

It appears that Big Ben might get a 4-6 games suspension

If the Steelers want to trade this guy it must be that they don't think he's likely to straighten up and they cannot live with that at all

SkinsJock wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:No I guess I don't understand it. Looks like you don't have to be convicted of anything to get a fine.

I guess there are still some people and fans that don't seem to understand that the NFL's personal conduct policy is not associated with the laws of today's society - this is more to do with players actions that are considered harmful to the NFL's image

Roethlisberger looks like he will be suspended for a number of games because he (in Goodell's judgement) conducted himself in a way that was harmful to the NFL's image, even though his actions were deemed to be not 'illegal' according to the GA police

Good points bro.. doesn't these guys have like rookie meetings when they get informed about all the do's and don'ts? Ridiculous man, just ridiculous. I know its ez for me to say I'd never screw up since i'll never play but geez man, your a 2 time sb champ QB.. common sense must kick in.

If the Steelers want to trade this guy it must be that they don't think he's likely to straighten up and they cannot live with that at all

Well, that and the fact that the Rooneys believe in their values, and personal standards of behavior. I don't agree with much their family seems to hold dear, but I have tremendous respect for thier adherence to their family values, and the moral courage they repeatedly demonstrate.

I know that there are a number of college age women in the extended Rooney family... and I imagine they may tend to view this event through that lens, as well... Having adolescent and young adult daughters will tend to do that to you, trust me.

I think having 2 daughters like I do makes me look at things a little differently - I understand that there's a lot of women out there that will "take advantage" whenever they can and that's not right - but let's look at this:
Roethlisberger is in a few bars with these same 3 women and he's saying that they're leading him on and basically coming on pretty good - then he gets them in an area that is 'private', they all get involved with a bunch of drinks and then the girl he's apparently 'interested' in, is escorted into a hallway by one of 2 policemen/bodyguards and then these 2 guys do not let her friends come back into that area to make sure she's OK while Ben is doing the deed in a bathroom - C'mon man! - this guy's a sicko - no wonder the Steelers are trying to trade him

does anyone think that this guy is respectful of a woman's right to say NO! at any time that she thinks the guy is doing something that she wants him to stop?
end of story!


Tom Jackson of ESPN asked anyone that was interested in this case to look at all the printed evidence and he said Roethlisberger, in his view, got off easy, with ONLY 6 weeks

SkinsJock wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:No I guess I don't understand it. Looks like you don't have to be convicted of anything to get a fine.

I guess there are still some people and fans that don't seem to understand that the NFL's personal conduct policy is not associated with the laws of today's society - this is more to do with players actions that are considered harmful to the NFL's image

Roethlisberger looks like he will be suspended for a number of games because he (in Goodell's judgement) conducted himself in a way that was harmful to the NFL's image, even though his actions were deemed to be not 'illegal' according to the GA police

I openly admitted that I do not know the details of the NFL personal conduct policy and asked for illlustration of WHERE EXACTLY in the policy he was not in compliance with.

I also openly admitted that I know there is a difference between law and NFL personal conduct policy, and never argued different. I'm still on the fence if I agree that someone who's not even been charged should be able to be suspended, but that's my opinion and I don't have the time nor the desire to get into a philosophical discussion about it.

At any rate, it doesn't matter what any one of us thinks...the man (Goodell) made a decision. I see where he's coming from, and I can appreciate it and the standard he's trying to set for the NFL as a lot of the superstars ARE role models. I'd much rather my son look up to someone in the NFL rather than a rock or rap star that sings about guns, drugs, violence and money.

point made Vet - I did not mean to include you as not understanding the NFL's code of conduct policy although I can see how you may have thought that

I thought that while you understood the policy you just felt that many of these atletes are exploited (AND I agree with this) - I'm just not as tolerant of these athletes as you might be as I think that guys like Roethlisberger just don't get it and think they are entitled to behave like they do just because they can afford it and it's technically not illegal according to society's rules

I kind of feel that the 6 weeks is a little harsh but this might be reduced I understand if Ben behaves in a manner that warrants a reduction

the interesting thing to me is that according to many reports, the Steelers and the Rooney family actually were involved and agreed to the amount of suspension time, prior to Goodell's announcement - this is clearly not going down well with that family

SkinsJock wrote:point made Vet - I did not mean to include you as not understanding the NFL's code of conduct policy although I can see how you may have thought that

I thought that while you understood the policy you just felt that many of these atletes are exploited (AND I agree with this) - I'm just not as tolerant of these athletes as you might be as I think that guys like Roethlisberger just don't get it and think they are entitled to behave like they do just because they can afford it and it's technically not illegal according to society's rules

I kind of feel that the 6 weeks is a little harsh but this might be reduced I understand if Ben behaves in a manner that warrants a reduction

the interesting thing to me is that according to many reports, the Steelers and the Rooney family actually were involved and agreed to the amount of suspension time, prior to Goodell's announcement - this is clearly not going down well with that family

The fans in Pitt don't want Ben there (according to my co-workers/Pitt fans in PA). They say they look @ the team as a reflection of themselves and Ben's "issues" are something they don't want associated with them. Anyways though, I could give a rats tail about Ben as long as he isn't in the NFC Beast. Right?

SkinsJock wrote:point made Vet - I did not mean to include you as not understanding the NFL's code of conduct policy although I can see how you may have thought that

I thought that while you understood the policy you just felt that many of these atletes are exploited (AND I agree with this) - I'm just not as tolerant of these athletes as you might be as I think that guys like Roethlisberger just don't get it and think they are entitled to behave like they do just because they can afford it and it's technically not illegal according to society's rules

I kind of feel that the 6 weeks is a little harsh but this might be reduced I understand if Ben behaves in a manner that warrants a reduction

the interesting thing to me is that according to many reports, the Steelers and the Rooney family actually were involved and agreed to the amount of suspension time, prior to Goodell's announcement - this is clearly not going down well with that family

I know we went back and forth, so I wanted to try to clarify a little.

As a side note, Ben can be less or more than 6 weeks, depending on a behavioral analysis done be medical professionals from what I heard on NFL access this morning. Medical professionals was the term I actually heard, which struck me a little weird. That makes me think of a psychological eval. While he illustrates poor judgment (even I never doubted that), I feel it's a little harsh. I wish they would have elaborated on the medical professionals. We'll see how this pans out.

no worries - this is obviously a lot more of an issue than I first thought

I think there are only a couple of places he could go and I certainly hope he's not in the NFC even - this guy's a good NFL QB - he hopefully gets it all together and has a turnaround

In my eyes where there is smoke there is fire.


This is the second time he is being accused of sexual assault.
I understand that athletes are targets. We have plenty of single athletes out there who mingle with women and are not being accused of sexual assault. Not once but twice this has happened.

This was no doubt a cover up in my mind. The Bar owners were questioned by investigators about the bathrooms.
Apparently people who come to this bar frequently have said the bathrooms are always dirty.

For some strange reason when the investigators came to gather evidence the bathrooms had been scrubbed down with bleach and were squeeky clean.
Wow sounds strange to me. Also one of Bens entourage members is a cop and is now facing being terminated.

People with power and money can get away with murder. Please people do not be naive and think justice was actually served here.