The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't dislike Jason, I'm just tired of all the excuses.

Plus, the writing is already on the wall. Theres no point in talking about Cutler but Jason's days are numbered. Unless he turns into a probowl QB this year, he's gone. He's the worst QB in the division and barely in the top 15 QB's in the league.

He is a league average QB, who could develop into above average, but will probably never be elite. He will only be elite with an excellent supporting cast. The problem is, you can't have a league average QB with terrible pass protection and minimal weapons, especially in a new, makeshift offense. That's the story of the 2008 Redskins.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

When is he going to lift up the team and make the people around him better?

When is he going to aid an aging offensive line with quicker decision making?

When is he going to speed up his throwing motion so he's not keying off defenders?

When is he going to hit WR's in stride?

When is he going to stop throwing behind WRs?

When is he going to stop throwing passes over their heads?

When is he going to HAVE SOME TOUCH ON HIS PASSES?

When is he going to make BIG LEAGUE passes?

Hopefully this year. If not its going to be a long first 8 games.

Then its COLT BRENNAN time.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

When is he going to lift up the team and make the people around him better?

When is he going to aid an aging offensive line with quicker decision making?

When is he going to speed up his throwing motion so he's not keying off defenders?

When is he going to hit WR's in stride?

When is he going to stop throwing behind WRs?

When is he going to stop throwing passes over their heads?

When is he going to HAVE SOME TOUCH ON HIS PASSES?

When is he going to make BIG LEAGUE passes?

CLL, thank you. I don't think it could have been put better. When I was reading this laundry list, it's like you were deep insdie my brain (scary thought, don't get off topic )and reading my thoughts better than I can interpret them myself. Thank you.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

When is he going to lift up the team and make the people around him better?

When is he going to aid an aging offensive line with quicker decision making?

When is he going to speed up his throwing motion so he's not keying off defenders?

When is he going to hit WR's in stride?

When is he going to stop throwing behind WRs?

When is he going to stop throwing passes over their heads?

When is he going to HAVE SOME TOUCH ON HIS PASSES?

When is he going to make BIG LEAGUE passes?

CLL, thank you. I don't think it could have been put better. When I was reading this laundry list, it's like you were deep insdie my brain (scary thought, don't get off topic )and reading my thoughts better than I can interpret them myself. Thank you.

Except that half of that list is completely inaccurate or exaggerated. He does hit WR's in stride, he does have touch on passes and he does make big league throws... I know, I have the tape. Does he hit every pass? No. But neither does any other QB in the league. JC had an identical completing percentage as Cutler did last year and almost and identical QB rating. However, he does need some improvement though in some areas, I agree, and everyone here has said he shares in the blame for the second half disaster from last season. But to suggest he can't do any of those things is just not accurate.

SkinsFreak wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

When is he going to lift up the team and make the people around him better?

When is he going to aid an aging offensive line with quicker decision making?

When is he going to speed up his throwing motion so he's not keying off defenders?

When is he going to hit WR's in stride?

When is he going to stop throwing behind WRs?

When is he going to stop throwing passes over their heads?

When is he going to HAVE SOME TOUCH ON HIS PASSES?

When is he going to make BIG LEAGUE passes?

CLL, thank you. I don't think it could have been put better. When I was reading this laundry list, it's like you were deep insdie my brain (scary thought, don't get off topic )and reading my thoughts better than I can interpret them myself. Thank you.

Except that half of that list is completely inaccurate or exaggerated. He does hit WR's in stride, he does have touch on passes and he does make big league throws... I know, I have the tape. Does he hit every pass? No. But neither does any other QB in the league. JC had an identical completing percentage as Cutler did last year and almost and identical QB rating. However, he does need some improvement though in some areas, I agree, and everyone here has said he shares in the blame for the second half disaster from last season. But to suggest he can't do any of those things is just not accurate.

Not on the long ball. He rarely throws with touch or hits receivers downfield in stride. Usually his deep ball is too flat, and the timing is off so he winds up under or overthrowing the receiver.

Deadskins wrote:Not on the long ball. He rarely throws with touch or hits receivers downfield in stride. Usually his deep ball is too flat, and the timing is off so he winds up under or overthrowing the receiver.

I agree to an extent, his long ball is flat sometimes. But he has hit players in stride downfield. The winning TD pass to Moss in the Saints game quickly comes to mind. Moss had 6 TD catches last year with a long of 67 yards. JC threw 34 20+ yard passes last year. Not great, but he can get the ball downfield... of course, when a downfield pass play is actually called, which was limited in Zorn's offense last year. I also think Zorn can work with him on the flat long ball as well.

SkinsFreak wrote:But to suggest he can't do any of those things is just not accurate.

So why is he on the chopping block? If he's so good, why hasn't an extension been offered? He's those things sometimes but hardly ever enough of the time.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:But to suggest he can't do any of those things is just not accurate.

So why is he on the chopping block? If he's so good, why hasn't an extension been offered? He's those things sometimes but hardly ever enough of the time.

One reason may be because our Front Office is retarded and is in love with other people's star players?

SkinsFreak wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Not on the long ball. He rarely throws with touch or hits receivers downfield in stride. Usually his deep ball is too flat, and the timing is off so he winds up under or overthrowing the receiver.

I agree to an extent, his long ball is flat sometimes. But he has hit players in stride downfield. The winning TD pass to Moss in the Saints game quickly comes to mind. Moss had 6 TD catches last year with a long of 67 yards. JC threw 34 20+ yard passes last year. Not great, but he can get the ball downfield... of course, when a downfield pass play is actually called, which was limited in Zorn's offense last year. I also think Zorn can work with him on the flat long ball as well.

That pass is the one and only deep throw I can remember him hitting in stride, and even that one Moss caught on his hip. Those 34 20+ throws were mostly YAC. He needs to lead the receivers with more arc on the ball so they can run under it.

SkinsFreak wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

When is he going to lift up the team and make the people around him better?

When is he going to aid an aging offensive line with quicker decision making?

When is he going to speed up his throwing motion so he's not keying off defenders?

When is he going to hit WR's in stride?

When is he going to stop throwing behind WRs?

When is he going to stop throwing passes over their heads?

When is he going to HAVE SOME TOUCH ON HIS PASSES?

When is he going to make BIG LEAGUE passes?

CLL, thank you. I don't think it could have been put better. When I was reading this laundry list, it's like you were deep insdie my brain (scary thought, don't get off topic )and reading my thoughts better than I can interpret them myself. Thank you.

Except that half of that list is completely inaccurate or exaggerated. He does hit WR's in stride, he does have touch on passes and he does make big league throws... I know, I have the tape. Does he hit every pass? No. But neither does any other QB in the league. JC had an identical completing percentage as Cutler did last year and almost and identical QB rating. However, he does need some improvement though in some areas, I agree, and everyone here has said he shares in the blame for the second half disaster from last season. But to suggest he can't do any of those things is just not accurate.

I call it the blind squirrell or broken clock theory. It happens sometimes by chance, but not enogh to be categorized as consistant.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Not on the long ball. He rarely throws with touch or hits receivers downfield in stride. Usually his deep ball is too flat, and the timing is off so he winds up under or overthrowing the receiver.

I agree to an extent, his long ball is flat sometimes. But he has hit players in stride downfield. The winning TD pass to Moss in the Saints game quickly comes to mind. Moss had 6 TD catches last year with a long of 67 yards. JC threw 34 20+ yard passes last year. Not great, but he can get the ball downfield... of course, when a downfield pass play is actually called, which was limited in Zorn's offense last year. I also think Zorn can work with him on the flat long ball as well.

That pass is the one and only deep throw I can remember him hitting in stride, and even that one Moss caught on his hip. Those 34 20+ throws were mostly YAC. He needs to lead the receivers with more arc on the ball so they can run under it.

Who wasn't surprised when he hit that? We were all excited that maybe the Saints game was a sign of improvement. But Deadskings and CLL are right, these very erratic flashes don't constitute consistent skill.

If JC really had proven these skills, why are there so many question marks here and around the league? Find me any writer, sports commentator, or football professional that will guarantee a successful career.

elprez19 wrote:yeah for the team that gets him and proving the skins wrong

That's what I forsee; it will serve Vinny and Danny right too.

One more thing...usually teams that have a bad offensive line and that can blame protection as their problem usually can't run the ball. Run blocking and pass blocking are different, but is it possible to have talent to do one but not the other. Typically in this league, where running is successful and passing isn't, the QB is to blame.

Why do we try to find complex excuses to what our problems on offense may be? For example:

We don't have any good WRs...wait we have good WRs but they aren't tall enough.

We have a bad OL that can't block...wait but we should run the ball more.

We don't go stretch the field enough with the deep pass...wait, our OL can't protect JC long enough for him to throw..

JC doesn't have enough continuity to get comfortable...wait, if he doesn't get it done in Zorn's 2nd season, he's done.

We have some many more problems on offense besides QB...wait, if Jason plays well, we'll make the playoffs.

I think we all obviously suspect JC is the problem, but we hope that he can improve quickly. To say that the offense doesn't go as JC goes, and that any failures aren't on his shoulders, sounds to me like a QB can only be successful in a perfect situation. Where I believe what some are refusing to admit is that JC needs top-notch personnel, coaching and playing and more talented than himself, around him to be a success.

Todd Collins made due with our WR corps, why can't Jason do the same? Why is this WR corps insufficient for him but was sufficient for Todd? I'm not saying they're a probowl corps but they aren't as bad as people make them out to be and I'm almost willing to say the same about the offensive line albeit to a lesser extent. Those two areas can be improved upon but what do we do when they're as good as we can get them and we still suck? What will be the excuse then?

Getting a big time QB is going to help any team - we need one.

That being said, I am just glad it's not Cutler at that price - I was initially glad that Snyder might pull this out but I am now glad we have our picks - we need to make the most out of our draft picks - I know, I know, that is a big problem here, but even a blind squirrel gets an acorn now and then

I think the fact that Snyder aggressively tried to bring in Cutler is a clear indication that the guys who make the decisions here do not think that Campbell is a big time QB - duh! - they were very close to giving up 2 #1 picks to replace him


That did not work this time, but .... we still have our picks and Snyder will make someone rich when he next gets a shot at a franchise type QB
hopefully by then we will have all the other pieces here too.

The pressure is not on Campbell - it's clear that he's not going to make it here but Cerrato better make damn sure we get some super players with those 2 #1 picks.

[quote=Cerrato better make damn sure we get some super players with those 2 #1 picks.[/quote]

I just laughed unintentionally with your post, SJ. Good one!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Todd Collins made due with our WR corps, why can't Jason do the same? Why is this WR corps insufficient for him but was sufficient for Todd? I'm not saying they're a probowl corps but they aren't as bad as people make them out to be and I'm almost willing to say the same about the offensive line albeit to a lesser extent. Those two areas can be improved upon but what do we do when they're as good as we can get them and we still suck? What will be the excuse then?

Todd Collins had the hot hand leading an emotionally charged team, in a system he'd spent years in, at the end of the season playing against some teams who'd clinched.

And then he magically dried up in the playoffs.

That, was, a, fluke.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Todd Collins made due with our WR corps, why can't Jason do the same? Why is this WR corps insufficient for him but was sufficient for Todd? I'm not saying they're a probowl corps but they aren't as bad as people make them out to be and I'm almost willing to say the same about the offensive line albeit to a lesser extent. Those two areas can be improved upon but what do we do when they're as good as we can get them and we still suck? What will be the excuse then?

Todd Collins had the hot hand leading an emotionally charged team, in a system he'd spent years in, at the end of the season playing against some teams who'd clinched.

And then he magically dried up in the playoffs.

That, was, a, fluke.

Yeah I agree. Quick releases, quick decisions and good passes were all make believe. Right.