The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

That was downright embarrassing. A few comments/observations:

Rock Cartwright, Clinton Portis and London Fletcher were the only players showing any intensity

I think our CBs should have their hands chopped off and have flyswatters installed in their place.

Jason Taylor was nothing but a liability tonight. As I've said before, if Calais Campbell turns out to be a beast, our entire scouting department should be fired.

How can a wide receiver have 2 false starts...

A phrase this team needs to learn in a hurry....sense of urgency.

How can we run so many times down 2 scores late in a game.

Everyone points out the last three games (and I'll admint rightfully so), but what about the first two? Wasn't Campbell quick to release the ball? Was that a fluke or something over my head? Is there more pressure on him now? In either case, should we not expect to see him progress back towards those first two games?

To be fair Campbell is under an entirely new offense... but even more so, ZORN IS A QB COACH! He's going to mold Campbell into the QB that HE wants him to be. There's going to be growing pains. To come out the gate after week 1 and even suggest a change in QB is (ugh) Ludacris. Even with a losing season, god forbid, I want to see Campbell behind center and learning this new offense with the same effort he gave Gibbs for the past four years.

the first two was more like a holiday for everyone, luke... As soon as they started playing for real, we looked horrible. ANd yah 2 False starts on a WR, inexcusable.

there are just some growing pains with the offense. the only person who performed well on offense was CP(when he knocked kiwanuka on his ace, that was amazing). but he always goes 100% and does his best. not saying everyone slacked, they just did not play the best they could. they looked confused out there, i mean how many false starts did we have? i mean randle el had 2 of them and hes a freakin wide receiver. going from the saunders offense to this offense is a major change that is obviously taking slower than i thought. im not even close to giving up on them but they definently need some time to get used to this.

now the defense was fine for the most part. Our DBs werent so hot tho, constantly giving up first downs and being late to the ball. i dont know if thats cuz they just suck or cuz of the coverage they play. it looked to me like they were playing man coverage most of the time and just sucking. and am i the only one who thinks reed doughty is simply awful?? i mean even last year, i didnt see what made him so good. i mean yeah, he'll make a good play every now and then, but so can any ol joe. it doesnt make up for all the plays he misses in coverage, hes like a poor mans adam archuleta.

oh and 1 good thing, london fletcher had freakin 17 tackles... not really a good thing tho.

normal night for fletch....

Zorn said "We saw where we are offensively"

Yeah nowhere.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Zorn said "We saw where we are offensively"

Yeah nowhere.

The line being too shaky to block someone as slow as Campbell was no surprise. The last two exhibition games were prelude to that, as discussed.

Here's a news flash. This O line will not improve and Campbell is never going to quickly spot open receivers, let alone improve his delivery.

We blew our chance to draft for the OL with idiot choices for too many years in a row and have put too much faith in Campbell, who's mentally and physically sluggish.

To win a decent number of games this year, we'll have to go with Collins and hope he doesn't get hurt. He spots open receivers and his delivery is quick.

Those of us who think Gibbs set up the future couldn't be more wrong. He bailed when he saw what was coming-- for the second time.

My thoughts:

Heyer isn't ready. I watched many a play where he gave up or missed an assignment. You NEVER, never have your TE 1vs1 on a DE, esp Tuck. The reason ey wasn't involved is the same reason he wasn't as involved last year, he's in covering Heyer's butt.

JC is not progressing. The sack from the 1st offenseive play was 80% JC holding the ball too long, 20% Heyer giving up.

ARE false starts, wtf !!!

Nice 2nd 1/2 defensive adjustments.

I didn't SEE Joe Jackson Gibbs on the sideline, but his spirit was in the playcalling. Where were the passes down the field to open up the Defense? It's amazing a QB and QB coach can't grasp the concept.

Whoever called the 3rd down plays to have YAC get the 1st should be tar and feathered, especially knowing this offense is not fully learned yet.

I'm seeing too much Betts and not enough CP. As JJG illustrated for us last year, THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGEABLE. I like Betts as a starter, but he does not spell well.

Greg Blache should have a field day with this defenseive backs dropping 4 (3 were right in the hands) INTs. I still believe that if Smoot woulda picked that one for a touchback, it would have been a significantly different game.

We have a loong way to go. I was pretty impressed with the D (short fothe comments above) considering our # back didn't play and #2(or#3 if you're a Rogers fan) went out leaving ONE guy with more than 1 year of experience in the defensive backfield. It's nothing that the skins can't get up to speed in a few weeks, but there is much work to do!

Zorny says that Campbell has to "come off" his first read and go through the entire progression of the play, so he's clearly not comfortable. but the first sack the Giants got (and a couple of other times) it looked like there was running lane for Campbell to pull the ball down and get some positive yardage. Did anybody else see that?

Our secondary has to KNOW what coverage they're in and what their responsibility is in that coverage. The 2nd and 7 play where Burress caught the 30 yard pass you can see we have 2 flat defenders and nobody covering the deep 1/3. Rogers looks at the TE coming to the flat and he levels off, meanwhile Reed comes down to cover the TE in the flat. Somebody was dreadfully wrong in that zone coverage.

IMHO, at times we looked unsure or unprepared. In either case we need to get that corrected ASAP.

I also wonder if being QB coach, Offensive Coordinator and, oh yeah, Head Coach is too overwhelming for Zorny. Afterall, Mike Holmgren realized he couldn't do all of that in Seattle, which was why he hired Zorny to be the QB Coach.

It's a long season and we have to play with the cards we've been dealt. I am really curious to see how much improvement if any we show against NO, that will be the barometer to see if the players are buying into what he coaches are selling.

I was more embarrassed with how the offense looked in the 4th quarter. The clock kept ticking away and the Redskins showed no sense of urgency whatsoever.

I know it's a completely new offense, but the Redskins don't have any no-huddle plays for a 2-min offense? They needed some quick scores and took their time and kept huddling to call plays, plus they kept running the ball even though they needed huge chunks of yards.

I'm fine with knowing the offense will have some growing pains, but they just looked completely lost at times.

The Skins pretty much looked like they picked up right where they left off with their last 2 preseason games.

While the defense stepped it up a notch in the 2nd half and only allowed a total of 16 points, there appears to be some of the traits from the GW days still lingering. They still can't generate a pass rush, and they're still giving the receivers way too much cushion. What ever happened to hitting the receivers as soon as they come off the line to disrupt timing, then sticking to them like glue for coverage? This "cushion" cover scheme clearly doesn't work, it's been proven it doesn't work over the last several seasons, yet they continue to use it. How dumb is this?

I was hoping to see a new and improved offense this year (you know, no more JG conservative ball), but it appears we're going to get more of the same. By the thrid quarter I was sick and tired of seeing JC continuously throwing passes to his receivers SHORT of the first down yardage needed on third down. WATCHING TEAMS DO THIS INFURIATES ME, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S MY TEAM! The receivers need to run their routes PAST the first down marker and then, and only then JC needs to throw them the ball. You'd think they would've caught on to this concept after throwing dump-off passes 3 or 4 times and then expecting the receiver to run for the first down failed to work, but they just kept doing it. Even on their last drive when it was 4th and 13 JC threw short of the required first down yardage and look what happened.

What is it going to take to get our offense going? I thought it was inept because of JG's conservative play calling. Is Zorn just as conservative, or does this offense just not have what it takes to be productive? I don't get it.

i think campbell would be a lot better if he had plaxico burress. i think anyone would be a lot better if they had plaxico burress. Thrash and Moss proved that they can't go up and get one tonight. That's why the skins can't throw downfield. I also enjoyed the play where moss got behind the defender, slowed down, and let him catch back up before the ball got there. That was classic. Not to bash Moss, he did have a TD, but he proves every week why he is a low end #2 at best. For everyone complaining about April, this is why you draft wide receivers. If you don't want to pay for Moss, Owens, Ocho Cinco, or Burress, you draft two wr's in the second round and keep your fingers crossed.

VetSkinsFan wrote:My thoughts:

I didn't SEE Joe Jackson Gibbs on the sideline, but his spirit was in the playcalling. Where were the passes down the field to open up the Defense? It's amazing a QB and QB coach can't grasp the concept.

How could they go down the field when Campbell was running for his life most of the time, especially in the first quarter? It seemed like the Giants were blitzing a linebacker or two every play in the first three series, and it was working to perfection (which is why I'm mystified they backed off from that aggressive approach later in the game - it was clearly working). You can't have a deep passing game if your line is not giving the QB time, and JC rarely had a moment to scan the field back there without some Giant one step from killing him.

I'll tell ya I got mixed feeling here.......

I have always liked Campbell, but I am worried we have screwed him up for good with all these new systems, and new QB coaches who preach a new philosphy. What happens if Zorn gets canned after the yr and they bring in ANOTHER new philosophy and system?


Portis ran hard absolutely. But stop dancing before the line of scrimmage.


Dbacks should be ashamed of themselves. Giving too much of a cushion to the wideoutsevery play and then they cant catch the ball. We got our hands on 4 passes, came away with 1 INT, unacceptable.



Im worried that Jim Zorn is a stop gap until Bill COwher is ready to come back. And if thats true Im worried about our players. Ill tell you right now I would not want to play for a team who brings in new coaches all the time. I am not saying Zorn is the answer or that I even like him, but I really hope he is retained in the off season and not shipped out for someone else. If he is this originization truely is a joke.

Mursilis wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:My thoughts:

I didn't SEE Joe Jackson Gibbs on the sideline, but his spirit was in the playcalling. Where were the passes down the field to open up the Defense? It's amazing a QB and QB coach can't grasp the concept.

How could they go down the field when Campbell was running for his life most of the time, especially in the first quarter? It seemed like the Giants were blitzing a linebacker or two every play in the first three series, and it was working to perfection (which is why I'm mystified they backed off from that aggressive approach later in the game - it was clearly working). You can't have a deep passing game if your line is not giving the QB time, and JC rarely had a moment to scan the field back there without some Giant one step from killing him.

I don't think they necessarily need to be throwing the ball down field so much as they need to be throwing past the first down marker. This garbage of constantly throwing these little dump-off passes on third an long and then expecting the receiver to run for a first down has got to stop or we will continue to see losses.

How can you guys be mad at the defense when they only allowed 16 points and the offense had them on the field all game long?!?

Sure they weren't perfect but jeez...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:How can you guys be mad at the defense when they only allowed 16 points and the offense had them on the field all game long?!?

Sure they weren't perfect but jeez...

Just think. If the Redskins had scored their pathetic average of 20.9 points from last season, they'd have won the game. I'd say the defense did its fair share of the job and more.

GSPODS wrote::-k

Just think. If the Redskins had scored their pathetic average of 20.9 points from last season, they'd have won the game. I'd say the defense did its fair share of the job and more.

Our problem has been offense for many years now.

Spurrier - Offense
Gibbs - Offense
Zorn - (past 3 games) Offense

Now, please don't take this as I'm done with Zorn, etc. etc. I'm just irritated to see year after year people complain about a defense that keeps us in 98% of our games. I'm sorry but holding a SUPERBOWL TEAM TO 16 POINTS IS AWESOME! Holding a SUPERBOWL TEAM TO 21 POINTS IS AWESOME. We should have been able to put up at least 14 points yesterday. At least... And it stings that we got our 7 off of a good KR that basically put us in the endzone.

We have a ton of work to do on offense.

Mistake #1 for Zorn - Benching Jansen. I think it was done too soon. He should have been given to regular season games.

Devin/Kelly - Need to be worked in immediately, get them up to speed. Kelly hopefully will be able to play. There is a steep drop off in atheleticism after Moss.

Jason - Has to make quicker reads.

ey - Needs to learn how to block. He's not a blocker, I realize that but the effort he put forth was pathetic even for a pure catching TE.

Poris - Is a freaking beast. OMG he stoned that DE soooo bad and had the audacity to talk some serious trash in his face as he laid on the ground!!! Portis is a monster!

Mursilis wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:My thoughts:

I didn't SEE Joe Jackson Gibbs on the sideline, but his spirit was in the playcalling. Where were the passes down the field to open up the Defense? It's amazing a QB and QB coach can't grasp the concept.

How could they go down the field when Campbell was running for his life most of the time, especially in the first quarter? It seemed like the Giants were blitzing a linebacker or two every play in the first three series, and it was working to perfection (which is why I'm mystified they backed off from that aggressive approach later in the game - it was clearly working). You can't have a deep passing game if your line is not giving the QB time, and JC rarely had a moment to scan the field back there without some Giant one step from killing him.

You have a few attempts down the field, it backs the whole rear 7 up. When The safeties back up to help cover the deeper routes(Like we do) and the LBs back off to help cover the flats and the short/medium middle. This opens running lanes since there won't be as many bodies on the LoS. THEN you can run your back between the OTs. If you have 6-8 in the box every time, you're NOT going to succeed in the running game. Just compare the 1st and 2nd halves of the game.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:How can you guys be mad at the defense when they only allowed 16 points and the offense had them on the field all game long?!?

Sure they weren't perfect but jeez...

I'm not mad at them, I just pointed out their problem areas. If you don't think their lack of a pass rush and their "cushion" pass coverage scheme isn't going to come around to bite this team in the butt you're sorely mistaken.

I'd like to hear everyone's opinion about why we've consistently for the past few years thrown the ball short of the 1st down marker?

We did it under Gibbs?
Now it's happening under Zorn?
Jason has been the QB for both...

Now this leads me to believe that the issue is Jason and not Gibbs as I suspected in the past. Collins success in the Al Saunders offense doesn't help Jasons case either.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd like to hear everyone's opinion about why we've consistently for the past few years thrown the ball short of the 1st down marker?

We did it under Gibbs?
Now it's happening under Zorn?
Jason has been the QB for both...

Now this leads me to believe that the issue is Jason and not Gibbs as I suspected in the past. Collins success in the Al Saunders offense doesn't help Jasons case either.

It's hard to isolate, but since there are 3-5 receivers on any given play, I don't think we can rule JC totally out. We know that MB was a master of hte dink and dunk, maybe it rubbed off?

Part of it has to be playcalling, though. As I understand it, there's a natural progression of receivers to scan and I wouldn't think that every play is short to long. I don't know the intracacies of the NFL offense, so this is pure speculation on my part.

Vet, I think that Jason is simply thinking too much...

I saw a play towards the end where the overhead cam showed the field from Jasons perspective. Those are some dangerous looking throws but I saw how it's based on timing and rhythm.

I think Jason isn't trusting the pass protection (understandable) and it's messing up his rhythm.

I also think that he's over thinking and isn't trusting the system just yet.

With all of that happening on one play, no wonder he's either sacked or tossing it to the dump off.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Vet, I think that Jason is simply thinking too much...

I saw a play towards the end where the overhead cam showed the field from Jasons perspective. Those are some dangerous looking throws but I saw how it's based on timing and rhythm.

I think Jason isn't trusting the pass protection (understandable) and it's messing up his rhythm.

I also think that he's over thinking and isn't trusting the system just yet.

With all of that happening on one play, no wonder he's either sacked or tossing it to the dump off.

I haven't seen him get "comfortable" with any system though. The protection in the 2nd 1/2 wasn't nearly as bad after a few passes were completed and the blitzes backed off. He's the x factor in affecting blitzes. If he can beat the blitz, then they will back off in coverage. This is not the SuperBowl front 7 that dominated the Patriots last year. It's up to him to make his protection better.