The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:

hatsOFF2gibbs wrote:

hailskins666 Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2004 6:04 pm
Post subject:

Steve Spurrier III wrote:
To be fair, he did make plays, and his recievers let him down. He threw a touchdown pass to Gardner, but he dropped it. He threw a big first down pass to Coles, but he dropped it.

Don't put all the blame on Ramsey. He played like crap, but so did Brunell, Portis, Gardner and Coles. There is no doubt in my mind that iff any one of them had played like they are capable of, we would have one the game...
agreed 100%

hatsoff, did you pay attention to anything except stats? did you not see the game. maybe you could write for espn.

Hey buddy.....I watched the game all right. Don't treat me like a dumbass....you know that we lost because of Ramsey's stupid decisions. Of course our recievers had an off day but weren't AT LEAST two of the interceptions HIS fault?? Look at the opinions of others about this topic. Most if not all believe that it was mostly Ramsey's fault. Let reality smack you in the head....Ramsey is JUST NOT READY. HE MAKES STUPID MISTAKES WHICH COSTS A LOT.
Again, it was not ALL Ramsey's fault but in majority, it WAS. Get it straight.

P.S. Why don't you go up to the Giants team and kiss them at their feet for not embarrassing us and especially JGibbs.

ROTFALMAO yea, the play of one guy for one quarter really decided the outcome. if ramsey hadn't been there in the fourth, maybe the team would have played harder in the first 3. i like your line of reasoning.

Are you telling me that Ramsey throwing those INTS didn't make a difference in the outcome? What are you.....drunk? Trying to erase the loss with a hangover tommorow?

Are u telling us that Garner and Coles drops, Samuels penalty, Porits fumbles, Brunell fumble and Int didn't make a difference in the outcome??
I'm with HS I'm begining to think you were watching a different game??

hatsOFF2gibbs It's funny how soon we forget. I didn't remember seeing you say we'd have perfect season this year?? So why are you whining about "a loss". YES 1 LOSS! Not the play off game. Not the most important game of the season. It was our second game, with a new head coach, with a new offensive scheme, with a new defensive coordinator. Yet you are ready to jump ship. Do you have confidence in Joe Gibbs what so ever?? He didn't pull Ramsey from that game and there is a damn good reason why. Ramsey was not the sole cause for this loss. Not even close.

If you judge everyone in life like this I certainly hope you are not a judge or a car insurance broker. Otherwise one accident and you might as well give up your driver's license.

BTW With your attitude I'm thinking this thread needs to be moved to the talking smack forum. You seem to think it's your right to bash anyone who choses to support Ramsey. Well you know what, I support him and I think he should start next week. I hope he does just so he can prove wrong the people who jump ship on him at the very first bad game he has!

I don't really think Ramsey lost this game for us at all. Collectively, the Redskins lost it as a team.

As far as Ramsey is concerned, I look at it like this: In spite of his mistakes, he didn't lose this game for us. However, Ramsey was in a prime position to help us win the game and he didn't rise to the occasion. So, it's not so much that he lost it for us, but the fact that he didn't win it is what counts. He had some key situations that we needed to come up big, and he couldn't capitalize on it. Had he capitalized on the chances, he would have been making a strong statement towards being the starter further down the road or even upgrading his market value. So, although he didn't lose it for us, he could have helped his own situation out by winning it for us.

I guess a lot of people are still drinking the Ramsey kool-aid. This kid could throw 5 interceptions and some will still come up with reasons why it wasn't his fault. Don't get me wrong, Gardner sucks too. If I remember correctly, we could of had Santana Moss but we traded down and got Gardner in the draft.

The problem with Ramsey and Gardner is they aren't consistant. Who cares if you make a great pass or catch. If you screw up the next play and it costs your team scoring opportunities then making a good throw or catch prior to the turnover is meaningless. Just about everyone on offense sucked today, Portis, Brunell, Ramsey, Gardner. The thing that sucks is Ramsey had opportunities to be the hero today and he failed to do so.

not drinking any kool-aid I still want Brunell as the starter. I'm just saying on a day the Redskins as a team play horrible..how can you single out Ramsey?

If Ramsey starts against Dallas I'm sure He will be fine. He came into the game and didn't play well but he did throw the winning TD pass only Gardner dropped it. Patrick does hold the ball to long but I think Joe Gibbs will be working on that also.

The loss to the Giants sucks but it is not the end of the world. Gibbs will work on the problems and fix them. Remember in 1981 the Skin's started 0-5 and finished 8-8. I figure they will be better than that this time around.

JPFair wrote:I don't really think Ramsey lost this game for us at all. Collectively, the Redskins lost it as a team.

As far as Ramsey is concerned, I look at it like this: In spite of his mistakes, he didn't lose this game for us. However, Ramsey was in a prime position to help us win the game and he didn't rise to the occasion. So, it's not so much that he lost it for us, but the fact that he didn't win it is what counts. He had some key situations that we needed to come up big, and he couldn't capitalize on it. Had he capitalized on the chances, he would have been making a strong statement towards being the starter further down the road or even upgrading his market value. So, although he didn't lose it for us, he could have helped his own situation out by winning it for us.

Hey Niki and HailSkins66.....this is what i'm trying to say. And ya'll know its true.

I don't agree with that at all.

the fact that he didn't win it is what counts.

How the hell is that fair? Let's see everyone sucked up until that point. When Brunnel went out we were NOT winning the ball game. Yet we throw Patrick into the fire and the fact that he wasn't able to hold his head up and win the game means it's all his fault?? That's like you having a bad day at work, getting home to your wife who gives you bad news, and then blaming your entire day on her! Not exactly fair. And not exactly accurate. If Rod Gardner catches that first beautiful pass, we score. We are leading. Our defense holds them. We win. So if you are going to blame anyone blame Gardner here, not Patrick.

Warmother wrote:If Ramsey starts against Dallas I'm sure He will be fine. He came into the game and didn't play well but he did throw the winning TD pass only Gardner dropped it. Patrick does hold the ball to long but I think Joe Gibbs will be working on that also.

The loss to the Giants sucks but it is not the end of the world. Gibbs will work on the problems and fix them. Remember in 1981 the Skin's started 0-5 and finished 8-8. I figure they will be better than that this time around.

I agree 100%. Ramsey has only 2 games ( none as the starter) and one off-season in an NFL Offense. The passing game improved when he entered the game except for the ints. He still made some rookie mistakes. The one in the endzone would not have happened if Gardner catches the TD before that. The one to Coles wouldn't have happened if LC continues the route inside. The other one was stupid and shouldn't have been thrown. Brunell still runs the offense better than Ramsey.

We can sit here and 'What If' until next week and it still won't change the fact that we lost. I was pissed yesterday, too. The facts are we won TOP, gained more yards, gained more first downs, kept them under 100 yds rushing and under 300 total yards, and, believe it or not, had less penalties. Seven penalties for 50 yds. isn't good, but we did alot worse than that consistently last year. If we would've had 7 turnovers last year, the score would've been ugly. It still came down to the last play after playing poorly.

I actually feel better about it today. Two games into a new system in all three phases and we're 1-1. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would rather get the reality check loss out of the way now (wish it wouldn't have been in our division). I wasn't expecting to go 16-0 anyway.

On a side note- I agree McCants needs to be in the game. Atleast in the Red Zone Offense. I know he wasn't active. I'm tired of seeing Coles running corner routes in the end zone with defenders between him and the QB. More often than not the ball will be over his head or get intercepted. He's not even 6'. With McCants in there, the ball could be put up where only he has a chance to catch it.


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Yet we throw Patrick into the fire and the fact that he wasn't able to hold his head up and win the game means it's all his fault??

NikiH, I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. I do not beleive Ramsey lost this game at all. The team as a whole lost the game by making costly mistakes. What I'm saying is this: Ramsey came in while we were behind. He had a chance to shine and perhaps win the ballgame. He wasn't able to capitalize on the chances. Had he capitalized on the chances he had, he would have made a powerfull statement to the coaching staff that he can and should be a starting QB if not now, but further down the road. By not capitalizing on the chances he had, he certainly didn't help the team, but in and of itself it didn't lose the game for us. I never indicated it "was all his fault". I just think that had he not made some of those errant throws, he could have really stood out and let the NFL know that he is a capable QB. I think in spite of the fact that he didn't help the team (note that I don't say he lost the game for us), he hurt himself more than he hurt the team.

Hypothetically speaking, if Ramsey had not thrown those interceptions and in fact thrown a couple more TD passes we could have won the game. If that had happened, the coaching staff would know that Ramsey is capable of stepping up and allowing us to come from behind. The fact of the matter is he didn't. In my opinion, it merely highlights how much work he has to do. His fundamentals are becoming his biggest enemy. He held on to the ball WAY too long, and even fumbled the ball as a result of holding on to it too long. I'm not knocking him one bit for his performance. I think in spite of not pulling the win out, I think some of his passes actually looked pretty damn good. He's shown that his potential is still there. Unfortunately, potential doesn't win ballgames and it definitely doesn't help you win a game that you're already losing.

His fundamentals are becoming his biggest enemy. He held on to the ball WAY too long, and even fumbled the ball as a result of holding on to it too long.

That is very true. Some of the simplest things that a pee wee QB learns, Ramsey doesn't do. O, lol, and lets not speak about Rod . LMAO.


So guys, how long do you want to give Ramsey to mature? 1, 2, 3 more years? I think his career was ruined by this organization. The coaching carousel, the inexperienced coaching, it all put him really behind in his development. No it isn't his fault, and I feel sorry for him.

The thing that worries me the most is the *why* part in "why is he holding on to the ball too long". It makes me wonder if it takes him a long time to see the field, read the situation, etc. There is a very noticeable difference between Mark and Tim running the offense. They drop back and the ball is out of there, usually to an open guy. Things are quick and crisp. With Patrick, a lot of his passes are like he's not seeing the field at all, like he's blindly throwing it and hoping for the best. The long balls also seem more like he's already made up his mind to throw it instead of seeing who the open receiver is or looking for the best coverage to throw in to. I hope that isn't it and he's just trying to unlearn trying to go for the deep ball first at all cost. But, so far it doesn't look like that to me. Even the Gardner throw didn't seem right to me. It looked like it might have been intended for Coles and Rod just got in the way. Anyway, I just hope Patrick improves quickly in case Mark is too hurt to play and hopefully he can put the Giants game out of his mind.