Cousins not being judged as hard as Griff

[SkinsJock]

B&GF - watching this Jets game has made me realize how good a QB we have in YOUR boy Captain Kirk


this kid is a joke and should not be starting - he's a back-up QB and losing value each game

13-10 at the half - we are still in the 3rd quarter and it's 34-13 NY Jets most of that is because of who we have at QB

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Bust... Like how many "busts" have nfl records, and rookie of the year?
Funny, that the price paid us the reason why we need to move on.. when Kirk fails it's all good cause we paid less?

Lol good one! All the hate, and we at least kept filthy out of the playoffs last year... Deep balls hitting wide outs down field, remember? It's been a while, you'd have to set the hateraid down to recall I'm sure

No one cares what a player did three years ago. NFL = Not For Long. No one said "When Kirk fails it's all good." That's a strawman argument. What has been said is that one does not evaluate a #2 overall pick who cost three 1sts and a 2nd in the same manner one evaluates a #102 4th round pick because the expectations are entirely different. Teams don't draft a quarterback in the 4th round with the expectation he will become a franchise quarterback. When a team pays a premium for a draft pick it is expected that player will be a cornerstone for a decade or longer. RGIII has been here three seasons. In season three he's wearing street clothes. That's Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler bad. But none of those players cost what RGIII cost, so it's far worse. It's the single worst personnel decision in NFL history and Bruce Allen should have been drawn and quartered for it, not promoted. They mortgaged the future for a player the head coach didn't even want, because the head coach knew he lacked the fundamental skills required to play the position.

Relive 2012 if it makes you feel better. Most everyone else has moved on. We have to, because the reality of the situation makes us want to kick puppies and throw kittens into blenders.

I think this is the biggest disconnect here... That's absolutely WRONG. Undrafted, or first selection overall means NOTHING, especially 3/4 years down the line. There are those rookie mistakes you shoulder as long as u see progress- but Kirk needs to be judged as a starter. Not as a rookie. Not as a 4th rounder. As a current starter .

And it's not very good... Mediocre would've been a huge improvement on today

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

I think this is the biggest disconnect here... That's absolutely WRONG. Undrafted, or first selection overall means NOTHING, especially 3/4 years down the line. There are those rookie mistakes you shoulder as long as u see progress- but Kirk needs to be judged as a starter. Not as a rookie. Not as a 4th rounder. As a current starter .

And it's not very good... Mediocre would've been a huge improvement on today

If I'm judging either one as a starter I'm saying there's five draft picks we wasted. We need a franchise quarterback. We don't have one. I never expressed or implied Kirk Cousins is one. I thought there was a chance he would be serviceable until we can actually go after one in the draft but it looks like that was asking for too much. We have three quarterbacks I wouldn't trust to hit the wide side of a barn with a sawed off shotgun if they were inside the barn. I definitely think Jay Gruden's scheme is too simple-minded for the NFL. He has a limited playbook which consists of running the same play consistently on each down. On 1st down he runs off tackle, every time. On 2nd down he always goes for a low percentage play which results in 3rd and long. On 3rd down he always has the receivers run short of the yardage markers and fight for the last yard for the 1st. The receivers run about three routes, making it easy for opposing secondaries to sit on the routes. Now, is that because the quarterback is hot garbage or is that because the head coach is hot garbage or both? I don't know but at this point to hell with all of them. I have zero confidence in their ability to improve. They take one step forward and two steps backward every week. I'm done having any expectations of this team this season. I'll wait to see what Scot McCloughan does with the team this offseason.

The difference is, I'm a Redskins fan, meaning I always want the individual players wearing the uniform to succeed because that equals team success. The same cannot be said of some here.

[EA7649]

OMG!!!!!!! Asked about another quarterback. Jay didn't say no Kirk's our guy. He said well I have to look at the film its kind of hard to look at the 3 quarterbacks right now

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

No difference... We are all skins fans here... And as much as some people wished RGiii would be our savior, I really don't see anyone rooting against Kirk or Colt.

I do think Gruden is the major bust here... Even Dalton has benefited from him being a year and a half removed from Jay! We got the wrong Gruden, and we have a hot mess at qb...

Even still, it's 4LIFE!!!

[SkinsJock]

the deal here is that this franchise was in dire straits and we (HOPEFULLY) finally have a GM who knows what he's doing

at the beginning of this season my feelings were we needed at least 2 drafts and possibly 3 to make things right and to add all the pieces
I also felt that there was good chance that Gruden and Captain Kirk were not going to be here for very long

the Cousins backers all think that all who doubt Captain Kirk's ability to play QB must be Griffin lovers - this is simply not true

we don't have to rush to find a QB all we need to do is have faith in our GM's ability to assemble a group of players and coaches that will be able to turn this franchise around - Captain Kirk is not an NFL starting QB and Scot will not be building this franchise around him - the jury is still out on what if any value the other 2 QBs on the roster have - one thing's for sure - as far as the QB issue is concerned, we don't have to listen to any of the butt kissers anymore because it's very clear they don't have a clue what an NFL QB looks like

I really doubt that a HC that can see the writing on the wall will stick with Captain Kirk for much longer

[fredp45]

The expectation for a 2nd pick in the draft (after giving up the ranch to get it) is always high and will be judged more harshly...however, I don't know who is being judged more or less harshly here -- that's all crap, all noise, the real story is --

We don't have a quality qb on our roster at this point.

I'd like to see us draft Cook or Goff in the first round, pick up a veteran for the backup job, and a young qb as #3. In essence, start over. Get rid of all of these guys. They are not the answer!

Colt -- bawahaha...anyone who thinks he's a quality qb is clueless.
Cousins -- he can't handle the pressure. Too erratic, not accurate passer... is his arm weak or does he always under throw WRs?
RGIII -- strong arm, runs fast, however, can only play in a college scheme, too injury prone, doesn't appear comfortable as a pocket passer AND too much drama surrounds him.

Show all three the door.

The veteran backup needs to understand he is NOT the starter. He is there to help the young guy. Rex Grossman kinda guy.

[hitmandm]

Griffin took us single handedly to the 2012 playoffs. Obviously he can play. He was done in by some injuries, but he was done in by coaches who are egomaniacs who take a my way or the highway attitude and didn't want him. No player can succeed like that. Put Griff with a coach who wants to craft an Offense around him, he will succeed way more than Kirk or Colt.

But Griffin didn't single handedly take the team to the playoffs in 2012. Alfred Morris rushed for 1613 yards that season.

There is no pro offense that revolves around a quarterback who can't read progressions or defenses. There is no offensive scheme that is designed for a quarterback who can't pass from the pocket. In 2012 teams were still adjusting defensively to the quarterback option. Teams have since adjusted. What worked three years ago doesn't work now. That's why RGIII is 5-15 since 2012. It's also why he's in street clothes. He can't play. Obviously. If he could the team wouldn't be wasting three first round picks plus a 2nd round pick to keep RGIII in street clothes while they play a 4th round pick they never expected to be anything more than a career backup and back him up with a 3rd round pick of the Cleveland Browns, a team who couldn't find a quarterback if Jesus gifted them one. McCoy is 1-3 since 2012.

Cousins is 3-10 since 2012. Cousins may not be anything more than another also ran but RGIII had his opportunities and proved he not only wasn't worth the price paid but he wasn't even worth the 4th round price paid for Kirk Cousins. He's a colossal bust of biblical proportions and his story has the makings of an epic Greek tragedy. Cousins could at least prove himself a capable backup if not a bona fide starter. All three quarterbacks on the roster could be out come season's end.

AM got those yards because of Griffin's ability. Look at AMs 21 yards today with Kirk at the helm. RG3 is way better than anyone on the roster including our in over his head stupid and fat coach. RG3 was real. Our coaches have sucked. Its pretty clear.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

AM got those yards because of Griffin's ability. Look at AMs 21 yards today with Kirk at the helm. RG3 is way better than anyone on the roster including our in over his head stupid and fat coach. RG3 was real. Our coaches have sucked. Its pretty clear.

Nonsense. In 2013, Morris rushed for 1275 yards on 60 fewer carries than he had in 2012. You know, 2013. They year they went 3-13, where RGIII led the team to a 3-10 record before being replaced by Cousins, who went 0-3.

[hitmandm]

AM got those yards because of Griffin's ability. Look at AMs 21 yards today with Kirk at the helm. RG3 is way better than anyone on the roster including our in over his head stupid and fat coach. RG3 was real. Our coaches have sucked. Its pretty clear.

Nonsense. In 2013, Morris rushed for 1275 yards on 60 fewer carries than he had in 2012. You know, 2013. They year they went 3-13, where RGIII led the team to a 3-10 record before being replaced by Cousins, who went 0-3.

His best years are when RG3 played 15 and 13 games. When RG3 played 9 games he rushed for 1000. When RG3 has played 0 games this year, the dude is at 297. Most of those yards came early in season when the Redskins surprised people. It took them no time to adjust and now we cant run anywhere because Kirk is very lame and Gruden isn't smart enough to make halftime adjustments. RG3 plays a big factor in the running game. Kirk does not.

[Deadskins]

It is ludricious to compare Griffin to Cousins because Griffin isn't smart enough to run an NFL offense.

It's this type of statement that brings racism into the conversation.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

It is ludricious to compare Griffin to Cousins because Griffin isn't smart enough to run an NFL offense.

It's this type of statement that brings racism into the conversation.

Griffin is incredibly intelligent. He's just not "football smart" when it comes to understanding the idiosyncrasies of the pro game. Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football. It's two completely different things. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with race.

[Countertrey]

Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football.

As proof, just look at Terry Bradshaw! His brain has to be jump started every morning just to remind himself to eat breakfast... wernt too bright, but sure knew how to find the open guy... and to make a nice, comfy career with Fox Sports...

OTOH, one of the smartest... and, yes, pure-down-out talented, was a man named Joe Don Looney (that was really his name)... sometimes, brains are the enemy... Never heard of him, huh? Time to pick up some trivia knowledge.

[SkinsJock]

This from CBS re Captain Pick ...

Cousins threw two picks, which actually shouldn't be that surprising to anyone in Washington anymore because he's thrown multiple interceptions 10 times in 20 career games.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

It is ludricious to compare Griffin to Cousins because Griffin isn't smart enough to run an NFL offense.

It's this type of statement that brings racism into the conversation.

Griffin is incredibly intelligent. He's just not "football smart" when it comes to understanding the idiosyncrasies of the pro game. Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football. It's two completely different things. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with race.

Griffin is incapable of reading a D, making audibles, and setting up the protection- right? What have you seen from Kirk that makes you think HE can? I see poor choices, inaccurate passes, wrong protections and balls thrown straight to dbs, and worse lbs.

Even if he was making one read but throwing it accurate that's a huge improvement over what we have.. one int a game is an improvement. Smmfh

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

What have you seen from Kirk that makes you think HE can?

Not much. I had high hopes but he has a slight problem: He repeats the same mistakes with an expectation of better results. That was once defined by Albert Einstein as insanity.

[grampi]

And so on...
This is a great read and highlights a lot of what my thought process is and our own debates on here. Good read for anyone, enjoy!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc- ... ative_1_na

I think its a good read and right now I agree McCoy is the better start. Later on in the season its be nice to see Robert.

What difference does it make who they start? They will continue losing no matter what...

[welch]

Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football.

As proof, just look at Terry Bradshaw! His brain has to be jump started every morning just to remind himself to eat breakfast... wernt too bright, but sure knew how to find the open guy... and to make a nice, comfy career with Fox Sports...

OTOH, one of the smartest... and, yes, pure-down-out talented, was a man named Joe Don Looney (that was really his name)... sometimes, brains are the enemy... Never heard of him, huh? Time to pick up some trivia knowledge.

Mention of Joe-Don Looney: winning post for the week. CT, you can have your milk money back.

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football.

As proof, just look at Terry Bradshaw! His brain has to be jump started every morning just to remind himself to eat breakfast... wernt too bright, but sure knew how to find the open guy... and to make a nice, comfy career with Fox Sports...

OTOH, one of the smartest... and, yes, pure-down-out talented, was a man named Joe Don Looney (that was really his name)... sometimes, brains are the enemy... Never heard of him, huh? Time to pick up some trivia knowledge.

Mention of Joe-Don Looney: winning post for the week. CT, you can have your milk money back.

I admit I had to look it up but the name rang a bell. Now I remember it's because he rang a few bells, mostly with punches to the opponent's head. NFL Films apparently voted Looney the most uncoachable player in NFL history, which is saying something considering the competition for that "honor."

[markshark84]

It's this type of statement that brings racism into the conversation.

Griffin is incredibly intelligent. He's just not "football smart" when it comes to understanding the idiosyncrasies of the pro game. Plenty of players who weren't very bright in general have understood the game of pro football. It's two completely different things. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with race.

Griffin is incapable of reading a D, making audibles, and setting up the protection- right? What have you seen from Kirk that makes you think HE can? I see poor choices, inaccurate passes, wrong protections and balls thrown straight to dbs, and worse lbs.

Even if he was making one read but throwing it accurate that's a huge improvement over what we have.. one int a game is an improvement. Smmfh

Man, I disagree with literally all sides here...... including oldschool but couldn't attach his due to the thread restrictions.

RGIII is CLEARLY smart enough to run an NFL offense. The real question is whether he has the ability to accurately read an NFL defense and execute plays based on pre-snap reads. That is his current issue and hasn't shown that ability, IMHO. He is very smart overall, he just hasn't had experience doing this during his time at BAY and his 1st NFL season. He arrogantly came back in 2013 thinking that he was something that he wasn't and it killed him. He got too big for himself. One of the reasons I want to see him back is to see how the "humbled RGIII" plays.

Most QBs who are not smart in general haven't been able to master the game. Look at R Leaf and J Russell. All the talent in the world. I personally believe that most NFL players have to be fairly bright --- and book smarts has little to do with it; just look at how Manley was able to play professionally for years as an illterate. Perhaps not book smart as most, but clearly a VERY intelligent guy. I have been impressed with the NFL players I know or have met and their intelligence levels.

Kirk has shown that he can read DEFs and make correct pre-snap blocking assignments, reads/audibles. What he hasn't showed is that he can execute the reads consistently --- ie, he just doesn't make accurate throws. RGIII has notoriously missed open receivers. I recall seeing a graphic where he missed 4 wide open WRs on extreme skins. Kirk really hasn't done that, he just throws them poorly. And making a "one read throw" doesn't work in high school football more or less the pros. And you are assuming he'll actually get the throw off --- which hasn't been proven as certain up to this point. He pocket awareness is VERY poor. Lets just try to be somewhat realistic and not completely nonsensical.

As far as the race thing. That is completely idiotic. RGIII was a GOD in DC in 2012. He has gotten more opportunities than any other QB I have seen in recent (or non-recent) memory. In my experience when it comes to sports, the person who mentions race as a factor is the one grasping a straws and lacks REAL evidence to formulate their position. I have never heard anyone use it as a preliminary point --- because it is the final "hail mary" to get someone on the defensive when basically everything else works against the initiator's favor (ie, actual stats or quantifiable information).

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Man, I disagree with literally all sides here......

If RGIII was Aaron Rodgers he still wouldn't be tall enough to see over his own linemen. He can't pass from the pocket because he can't see downfield from the pocket. If a quarterback can't pass from the pocket he's not long for the NFL.

[cowboykillerzRGiii]

Sooo.. has Kirk been given as man chances as Robert? And why are we so quick to dismiss game losing pic 6s, when if it was Rgiii he'd be crucified?

That's the point of this thread right? How is it unbiased, and equality, when Kirk has looked decent to terrible all season... And Griffin got thrown to the wolves with Willie Smith at his blind side, playing concust all quarter, and is written off as a biblical bust?

That's what I don't get. The criss crossers, hypocritical nonsense, excuses for one are ok but the same exact excuse for the other is blind homerism?

WHEN, gimmick or no, pre injury or what ever it was- ONE of these QBs has shown the gift, the talent, and the gusto to pull it off in a big game. For some reason he gets no benefits, no doubts, just pure hate for even mentioning his name. The other can literally do no wrong, and has NEVER performed at a pro bowl caliber level for more then a week straight.

[StorminMormon86]

Sooo.. has Kirk been given as man chances as Robert? And why are we so quick to dismiss game losing pic 6s, when if it was Rgiii he'd be crucified?

That's the point of this thread right? How is it unbiased, and equality, when Kirk has looked decent to terrible all season... And Griffin got thrown to the wolves with Willie Smith at his blind side, playing concust all quarter, and is written off as a biblical bust?

That's what I don't get. The criss crossers, hypocritical nonsense, excuses for one are ok but the same exact excuse for the other is blind homerism?

WHEN, gimmick or no, pre injury or what ever it was- ONE of these QBs has shown the gift, the talent, and the gusto to pull it off in a big game. For some reason he gets no benefits, no doubts, just pure hate for even mentioning his name. The other can literally do no wrong, and has NEVER performed at a pro bowl caliber level for more then a week straight.

Here's what it boils down to (for me anyway):

Griffin was a first round pick, taken after given up several picks and essentially mortgaging our future. Cousins was drafted in the 4th round as an "insurance" policy, should Griffin get hurt. The fact that the first round pick is either just as or not as good as the 4th round pick is one reason why. Here we are in year 4. The "savior of the franchise" has still regressed, and continued to show a lack of pocket awareness. You can continue to blame Willie Smith all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Griffin slid the line wrong on that play that got him concussed.

Anywho, Griffin has gotten 3 years of rope. 2 coaching staffs have given up on him. Cousins has had experience as well, but not nearly enough as Griffin. People are willing to give Cousins more rope (as of right now) because of the inexperience. But trust me, that excuse is growing tired quickly. He needs to show progress. He needs to show back to back solid games (although I'd argue that the Atlanta game was a solid effort due to the 4th quarter comeback). And hell, if he throws picks, I wouldn't mind at all as long as he was throwing TD's to offset them.

You keep seeing this as "Cousins can do no wrong", babying, excuses, etc. Reality is that people don't want to pile on the guy who admits his mistakes, places blame on himself, etc. Griffin didn't necessarily endear himself to the fans in some of his press conferences. And to call Kirk decent to terrible all season is just wrong. He's had two awful games this year. The rest he's kept us in. Which is exactly what Gruden had asked of him going into the year.

[StorminMormon86]

Heaven help me but Jason Reid is dropping truth on Bomani Jones right now on ESPN 980.

[DEHog]

Well by his own admittance Gruden is running his mouth way to much…to the point where it does have an appearance of unequal treatment when compared to his remarks on Robert last year. I do believe he learned from that last year and would do the same for Robert this year if he was playing…remember his butt is on the line as well. Having said that I have listen to beat reporter after beat reporter say no player or coach has broken ranks and said that Colt or Robert should be starting…That we don’t have some rumor out there that says the locker room is divided or a anonymous source said…. is amazing in its self!!