The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Not to mention Gruden didn't draft Griffin.

I'm afraid the rest of 2014 will be Griffin starting, unless he gets injured again. I don't think Colt McCoy is any sort of proven success. He did have a great game against Dallas, but so did the Redskins' defense (for a change). I also don't believe the QB is the person responsible for winning or losing football games. They certainly help and contribute a great deal, but they are not the absolute only reason. When people say "he led them to victory", I find that to be a little disingenuous. However, the team's record with Griffin as a starter since 2012 is pretty bad. It doesn't help his case much, but he is not the sole reason for all the losses. I don't think he will ever be a very good starting NFL quarterback, I never thought he was a long-term NFL QB even from the start, but I am well aware that many fans are convinced otherwise. He was a huge mistake and cost far, far too much to acquire. But, that's what happened and now you have to assess the damage and make a better move. That gimmick offense in 2012 was just that- a gimmick to exploit Griffin's TRUE ability at that position on the pro level. I don't personally feel like waiting 5 years for him to learn how to be an NFL QB when it means a complete relearning of his instinctive skills, that may or may not even exist for an NFL level.

McCoy was acquired a lot cheaper and may actually have more promise. I don't know for sure because they only really used him for a game and a half. If the rest of the team founders significantly in games, it will probably mean more losses even if McCoy has a decent, or even a great game.

paul4ut wrote:McCoy is a proven winner
...
snip
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McCoy will power and direct the Redskins to a Championship because he Has proven he can.

In college. If Bob comes out against SF, and looks at all like he did against TB, then Gruden should definitely give Colt an opportunity to play. I don't know how we're ever going to get RGIII's confidence back, but he definitely was playing scared in the TB game.

DarthMonk wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:McCoy didnt look all that good if you watched.

Addressing this only:

25 of 30 for 299 w 1 INT.

7 rushes for 16 yards and a TD.

I, for one, was impressed that night. I saw poise, good decision-making, and accuracy. I remember one time when he left the pocket he actually took a peek backwards to see where a guy was that was trying to chase him down. He truly led us that night. He looked fantastic.

He did look poised, and made several nice plays. He got better as the game went on, but I'd stop short of saying he looked fantastic. He played above average. I think it's a comparison thing, because we have seen so much dissapointing QB play lately. I did like that "look back" though. Also the play where he directed Reed before lobbing it over the defender.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

paul4ut wrote:RG3 is 3-7 as a starter this year.

Wrong ...

btw - welcome to the site

Ok, 0-3.

Actually he started the Jax game, so technically the team is 1-3 with him as a starter.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I cannot fathom how people continue to insist McCoy looked like crap against Dallas.

What people are those? I have heard no one even come close to saying he looked like crap.

Deadskins wrote:Actually he started the Jax game, so technically the team is 1-3 with him as a starter.

But Cousins shouldn't get credit for the Tennessee game? Griffin wasn't winning when he got injured against Jacksonville.

Deadskins wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:McCoy didnt look all that good if you watched.

Addressing this only:

25 of 30 for 299 w 1 INT.

7 rushes for 16 yards and a TD.

I, for one, was impressed that night. I saw poise, good decision-making, and accuracy. I remember one time when he left the pocket he actually took a peek backwards to see where a guy was that was trying to chase him down. He truly led us that night. He looked fantastic.

He did look poised, and made several nice plays. He got better as the game went on, but I'd stop short of saying he looked fantastic. He played above average. I think it's a comparison thing, because we have seen so much dissapointing QB play lately. I did like that "look back" though. Also the play where he directed Reed before lobbing it over the defender.

OK. He looked fabulous.

fabe wrote:

paul4ut wrote:From 2013 to 2014, RGIII has won 3 games and and lost 13. He has lost 77% of the games he's started over a two-year period, and that's with a year that has pretty much kept him out most games with injuries. At least McCoy shows promise and leadership as a starter. We need to give him a chance. What do we have to lose? Another loss perhaps?

In terms of W/L, we have nothing to lose. However, if you bench RG3 now, you're essentially telling everyone that we've given up on Griffin. All of those picks would be a waste, and so would acquiring Gruden.

So how long does RG3 have to suck before he's benched? Should he be given another season? At some point the losses must be cut and the team move on...

grampi wrote:So how long does RG3 have to suck before he's benched? Should he be given another season? At some point the losses must be cut and the team move on...

IMO - Robert will not be the QB as soon as the Redskins are convinced that he is not able to play QB - that might take a while

Deadskins wrote:What people are those? I have heard no one even come close to saying he looked like crap.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:McCoy didnt look all that good if you watched. He had me cussig as much as the starter and the back-up

And

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:He couldnt hack it in lowly Cleveland, got replaced by an aged rook in Weeden- who btw is gsrbage too.

And then...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:While we were turnt up vs our most hated rival, we arent any better then below average.

The word "Crap" was never uttered, but it was all but implied.

I'd prefer to see RGIII finish out the year no matter how he plays. You can't deny RGIII's talent and we literally have nothing to lose given our record. I'd like to see how RGIII performs while playing in a large chunk of games the remainder of this year (without recovery from his ACL compared to 2013); after all, he has only played in 3 full games this season. Perhaps a switch will turn on and we'll see the old RGIII. I haven't fully given up on RGIII, although I am not optimistic, at all. I just want to make sure everyone is satisfied that RGIII isn't the answer --- and I think having him play the remainder of the year will clear out any residual doubts (and if he plays great.... even better).

As far as McCoy --- if RGIII stinks it up, we can have a 3-man open competition for the starter role next year (at least on paper; it will more likely be a 2 man competition between Counsins and McCoy with RGIII thrown in merely because) ---- after our front office has hopefully drafted a RT in the first round and good defensive players in rounds 2-5. Then again, the likelyhood of RGIII finishing the year injury free is 50-50, so McCoy may get his chance either way.

Interesting stat ---- RGIII has played in MORE games than McCoy has in his NFL career. In essence, McCoy is more "raw and untested" than RGIII......

This all being said, I highly doubt McCoy is the answer regardless of what happens with RGIII.

SkinsJock wrote:

grampi wrote:So how long does RG3 have to suck before he's benched? Should he be given another season? At some point the losses must be cut and the team move on...

IMO - Robert will not be the QB as soon as the Redskins are convinced that he is not able to play QB - that might take a while

I think we've seen what we're gonna see from him...I don't think that has anything to do with the reason he's still playing...I think the reason he's still playing is because all the team's eggs were put in the RG3 basket and somebody doesn't want to be embarrassed by pulling the plug on this failed experiment...

OldSchool wrote:I don't know what McCoy has got he hasn't played much but I'd like to see him start the rest of the year. Griffin is a bothersome bust and a waste of repetitions the Skins should cut him tomorrow and clear the air in Ashburn.

good one..........and not a bad idea.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:What people are those? I have heard no one even come close to saying he looked like crap.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:McCoy didnt look all that good if you watched. He had me cussig as much as the starter and the back-up

And

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:He couldnt hack it in lowly Cleveland, got replaced by an aged rook in Weeden- who btw is gsrbage too.

And then...

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:While we were turnt up vs our most hated rival, we arent any better then below average.

The word "Crap" was never uttered, but it was all but implied.

Im sorry.. he wasnt playing "lights out" vs the pukes as some are alluding to. While his stats at the end looked good he was below average in the first half but surely bounced back well. The int in the endzone was Cousins esque.
A lot of his completions were also off the mark- hence my statement of him not looking all that good.

I'll definitely give him props for playing good enough and good when we needed him to- but I think most of the praise (for that game) goes to the Skins D. Kinda like his first throw being a TD- while it was a solid throw Garçon made that happen on a 8 yard catch and run not Colt throwing a 70 yard td

I don't think McCoy is the long term answer. I don't think Griffin is either. But I want to win, not showcase Griffin's highlights or lack thereof. Gruden should be playing the quarterback that gives this team the best chance to win, IMO.

Haha the funny thing is I was in the minority of applauding the McCoy signing this pre season... good ol DC fans!

SkinsJock wrote:

grampi wrote:So how long does RG3 have to suck before he's benched? Should he be given another season? At some point the losses must be cut and the team move on...

IMO - Robert will not be the QB as soon as the Redskins are convinced that he is not able to play QB

Really going out on a limb with this "opinion". lol.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I don't think McCoy is the long term answer. I don't think Griffin is either. But I want to win, not showcase Griffin's highlights or lack thereof. Gruden should be playing the quarterback that gives this team the best chance to win, IMO.

Why don't you think McCoy is the long term answer? He hasn't lost a game yet.

Just curious what you're basing your opinion on.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

grampi wrote:So how long does RG3 have to suck before he's benched? Should he be given another season? At some point the losses must be cut and the team move on...

IMO - Robert will not be the QB as soon as the Redskins are convinced that he is not able to play QB

Really going out on a limb with this "opinion".

just making the point that Robert is the starting QB and while he has not looked good, his upside is still better than McCoy or Cousins

I cannot believe that will happen but .... I do know that Robert has got to show a lot more effort

riggofan wrote:Why don't you think McCoy is the long term answer? He hasn't lost a game yet.

Just curious what you're basing your opinion on.

Body of work. Lack of arm strength. His mobility is pretty good from what I've seen. Unless we all of a sudden flipped our defense into a top ten defense, I don't think McCoy would garner us enough wins to compete year in and year out. I see him as a Trent Dilfer-esque quarterback. A guy who can win games as long as the entire team is playing well around him. He doesn't make mistakes often, but he doesn't have the "flash" to make the big plays, IMO.

But I'd be happy to see him prove me wrong. I really would like to see him starting again before this year is over just to see what he could do and if the offense would in fact look "smoother" with someone other than #10 behind center.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Why don't you think McCoy is the long term answer? He hasn't lost a game yet.

Just curious what you're basing your opinion on.

Body of work. Lack of arm strength. His mobility is pretty good from what I've seen. Unless we all of a sudden flipped our defense into a top ten defense, I don't think McCoy would garner us enough wins to compete year in and year out. I see him as a Trent Dilfer-esque quarterback. A guy who can win games as long as the entire team is playing well around him. He doesn't make mistakes often, but he doesn't have the "flash" to make the big plays, IMO.

But I'd be happy to see him prove me wrong. I really would like to see him starting again before this year is over just to see what he could do and if the offense would in fact look "smoother" with someone other than #10 behind center.

Fair enough. I think I've had a similar impression just from what I knew of him with the Browns. I will say that game vs. the Cowboys changed the perception for me a little bit. He hit that deep ball to DeSean. He used his legs to extend plays and move the chains. And he was really poised in OT. I don't know if that was just the game of a lifetime for him or not, but it at least made me curious.

Honestly, I'd rather see #10 behind center playing like the guy who was drafted one spot ahead of him. But if they have to make a change before the end of the year, I'd probably like to see McCoy again first to find out if he was just a one hit wonder or not.

I would not be surprised to see both Cousins and McCoy play some more at QB but that only happens if Griffin is not able to play OR if he proves to not be able to play QB the way that McVay and Gruden want

I am kind of surprised that some here do not think, even given what we've seen on the field, Robert is showing Jay and Sean that he's the best option at QB on this roster

Until Robert shows that he's not the best option at QB, he will and should be the starter - what's the problem?



If you don't like Robert or you don't think he should be playing that's fine .... I think your mistaken

AND

Jay and Sean think he's the best option at QB and he will be starting until he proves otherwise

SkinsJock wrote:Until Robert shows that he's not the best option at QB, he will and should be the starter - what's the problem?

McCoy won two in a row. Griffin has lost two in a row. There's a problem right there.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Until Robert shows that he's not the best option at QB, he will and should be the starter - what's the problem?

McCoy won two in a row. Griffin has lost two in a row. There's a problem right there.

OK - do you really think that Colt gives the Redskins a better chance to win this next game?

OR

If both Robert and Colt played as well as they are capable of, which QB do you think would be better?