The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Red_One43 wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:We've had only one black QB win it and only one black head coach (I think!) so that's still a long way off where we should be in 2012.

SLR, here's a little assist for you. Dungy and Tomlin are the two head black coaches to win Super Bowls.

Cheers, forgot about Tomlin for a second there but thought Dungy wasn't alone!

Anecdotal observation:

A few years ago the Williams sisters started dominating women's tennis. Tiger started doing the same to golf. A black man runs food service where I work. I see him every morning. We talk a lot of sports over coffee.

So one Monday after one of the Williams sisters wins a tourney on the same day Tiger does the same he says to me "Looks like you guys are gonna have to find another sport." We're both smiling and laughing and no explanations are needed. Then I said something like "Well, we still got car racing and swimming" and we both laugh some more.

I guarantee this man wants RGIII more than Luck as our QB and the biggest reason, by far, is race. I'm speaking for him now but I know him. There would be an extra level of pride if RGIII were to become our leader. I think this issue is far more prevalent under the surface than most people realize/are willing to admit.

Now if we get Luck and we start winning my man in food service is gonna be pumped for the Redskins and we will be high fiving after every stomping of the Cowgirls but that doesn't change what I'm sayin'.

I think RGIII is a marginally better fit for the Shanny offense. Anyone who watched Luck perform knows how well he'd fit too. But as an "ambassador" for the DC area RGIII is a much better fit. I think a big part of that is his race - and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing.

DarthMonk

Maybe Darth, maybe bro.. I figure that at a young age, a child will obviously take to a "shade" they are more familiar with? What about the kids who know and watch/play football who can debate though.. for example I love Luck because of how he plays in the pocket and how quickly he can release the rock... incredible arm strength, etc. I love RG3 because of those same reasons but also because he is a mobile QB.

At some point, EVERYONE will have to say to themselves, given our OL situation who would be a better fit. I would say RG3...

So for the sake of everything, let's not debate who would be our preferred QB based on what we think we may know about the DC area fans but instead lets spread actual reasons why we should pick the white kid or the black kid for our future.

So in conclusion... RG3.. because our OL will still be shaky (work in progress), NFC East defenses are disgustingly brutal on QBs, and we have some receivers who can get down the field FAST and RG3's head is always looking downfield to launch it.

^+1.

I know it's not done. I know there are still issues. I know there are still idiots making decisions that injure. Far less than before... but still there.

At the same time, I also know that we will never become truly color blind until we stop keeping score. That, however, will require a leap of faith... which doesn't seem likely any time soon.

If we can never cross that bridge, however... the cure will guarantee the continuation of the illness.

Deadskins wrote:I think Doug Williams is still the only black QB to win a SB, isn't he? He did that as a Redskin. Not sure if that makes a difference, but it seems significant in this discussion for some reason.

It is VERY relevant imho.

ANY lingering issues relating to discrimination died with Preston Marshall but the reputation lingered for a while until Jack Kent Cooke first with Vince Lombardi, and then Beathard and Gibbs, made sure that talent, regardless of ANY other differences, was the primary concern to become a Redskin. The fact that Williams won a SB for us did put to bed ANY concerns left about the Skins and their openness towards ALL good players.

I could care less whether my QB is from ANY origin. He could be blue or purple for all I care. I rather have a GREAT QB and also a GREAT character man rather than a "salesman" from ANY particular colour.

I do not care from ANY perspective about the origin of our QB. Give me a great QB with great character like ANY of the two top prospects and I will be equally happy.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Maybe Darth, maybe bro.. I figure that at a young age, a child will obviously take to a "shade" they are more familiar with? What about the kids who know and watch/play football who can debate though.. for example I love Luck because of how he plays in the pocket and how quickly he can release the rock... incredible arm strength, etc. I love RG3 because of those same reasons but also because he is a mobile QB.

At some point, EVERYONE will have to say to themselves, given our OL situation who would be a better fit. I would say RG3...

So for the sake of everything, let's not debate who would be our preferred QB based on what we think we may know about the DC area fans but instead lets spread actual reasons why we should pick the white kid or the black kid for our future.

So in conclusion... RG3.. because our OL will still be shaky (work in progress), NFC East defenses are disgustingly brutal on QBs, and we have some receivers who can get down the field FAST and RG3's head is always looking downfield to launch it.

... and the very natty dreads!

I'm all in for RGIII ... as you well know. Thanks everybody.

DarthMonk

+1! All in!

DarthMonk wrote:A few years ago the Williams sisters started dominating women's tennis. Tiger started doing the same to golf

100 years ago a bunch of white guys chasing one black guy across a field was called the KKK. Today it's called the PGA tour...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:A few years ago the Williams sisters started dominating women's tennis. Tiger started doing the same to golf

100 years ago a bunch of white guys chasing one black guy across a field was called the KKK. Today it's called the PGA tour...

What was that quote a while back when Eminem hit the scene; You know the world is changing when the world's best golfer is black and the world's best rapper is white!

I love all that, nothing is beyond limits, everything is open to everyone, let's all be colour* blind and move on.

Hating is wasting.


*Yes, that's how its actually spelt!

To a Limey, maybe.

Deadskins wrote:To a Limey, maybe.

I hope you mean the spelling thing and not the sentiment...

I did, I did.

That's OK then!

Wait, RG3 is black?

ATX_Skins wrote:Wait, RG3 is black?

Yes, but don't tell anyone!!!

ATX_Skins wrote:Wait, RG3 is black?

You are getting slow... I figured it out on the first page of this thread

1niksder wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:Wait, RG3 is black?

You are getting slow... I figured it out on the first page of this thread

I'm losing my touch.

I thought this thread was a video of two white guys in a foot race.

ATX_Skins wrote:

1niksder wrote:

ATX_Skins wrote:Wait, RG3 is black?

You are getting slow... I figured it out on the first page of this thread

I'm losing my touch.

I thought this thread was a video of two white guys in a foot race.

Now when was the last time you saw that?!?

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:A few years ago the Williams sisters started dominating women's tennis. Tiger started doing the same to golf

100 years ago a bunch of white guys chasing one black guy across a field was called the KKK. Today it's called the PGA tour...

What was that quote a while back when Eminem hit the scene; You know the world is changing when the world's best golfer is black and the world's best rapper is white!

I love all that, nothing is beyond limits, everything is open to everyone, let's all be colour* blind and move on.

Hating is wasting.


*Yes, that's how its actually spelt!

Ummm... "best rapper" = oxymoron...

and, you still can't spell. (it's spelled, not spelt)

I do think race may play a small part into how these two guys are originally accepted by their fan base, but once they start playing solo that will matter is wins. However, the DC fan base does have an over hyped opinion of DWilliams. You can still see his#17 jersey on the stadium. What was he here for, one season and a part of another. You don't see any Rypien jerseys at FedEx. I can only think of one reason for the contrast.

Heck my wife was raised by her father to believe that black QBs weren't smart enough to play at a high level. How stupid its that! I had someone say that he didn't want us to trade for RG3 for two reasons. One it was too many picks and two he questioned of he was going to be smart enough to play QB. Really, studiously there of only one reason someone could make a retarded statement like that.

By the way FedEx field is inside of the capital beltway. I have always considered everything inside the beltway DC. It cracks me up when people say FedEx is WAY out in the boonies of MD. (not that you did) When out is in fact less than ten miles from RFK and under 5 miles from the real DC border.

Countertrey wrote:

SouthLondonRedskin wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:A few years ago the Williams sisters started dominating women's tennis. Tiger started doing the same to golf

100 years ago a bunch of white guys chasing one black guy across a field was called the KKK. Today it's called the PGA tour...

What was that quote a while back when Eminem hit the scene; You know the world is changing when the world's best golfer is black and the world's best rapper is white!

I love all that, nothing is beyond limits, everything is open to everyone, let's all be colour* blind and move on.

Hating is wasting.


*Yes, that's how its actually spelt!

Ummm... "best rapper" = oxymoron...

and, you still can't spell. (it's spelled, not spelt)

No, it's 'Spelt' - 'Spelled' is another 'Americanism'. Oh my God, how much butchering have you lot done to this language!?!?

And the best rapper thing, c'mon man! Are you trying to say there's no talent involved there...???

I think it's just completley BS when there was a time where Black QBs weren't drafted because of their skin color....It doesn't matter, just win!

Warren Moon I think should get all the respect in the world from NFL fans.

Warren Moon should be entering the league today...

He got a raw deal. What a talent. Had he played his whole career in the NFL... I can only imagine.

DarthMonk wrote:I hesitated to start this thread but I think it's relevant.

I didn't do so to start a fire or fan any flames and for all I know it will die with few views and no replies.

I've been a Redskin fan for a long time - not as long as some of you but probably longer than most. I'm old enough to remember riots in DC in the '60s. I remember seeing signs like this in my neighborhood.



I remember no black QBs. I remember RFK and the team truly being Washington's. It really wasn't that long ago.

Indy and we are about to choose "the face of the franchise."

I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race.

Washington DC is currently 51% black, 38% white, and 11% other. I am sure if I went downtown right now and asked 1,000 people at random who they'd want as our QB, RGIII would win and one of the main reasons, voiced or not, for many, would be his race.

Indy is currently 69% white, 25% black, and 6% other. I am also sure my random poll there would produce Luck as the winner and that race would be a main reason.

I'm not saying this to stir up controversy. I don't think it's wrong to lean one way or another based on race. I'm a Blackfoot and would have loved to have seen us land Bradford (Cherokee) a few years ago. One of the reasons I would prefer RGIII is I think he'd be a more appropriate "face of the franchise" given the history of this area as I have experienced it.

I'd be interested to hear other thoughts. I'm not going to argue unless it's in self-defense after being outright attacked.

Anybody want to chime in?

DarthMonk

Washington DC is currently 51% black, 38% white, and 11% other. I am sure if I went downtown right now and asked 1,000 people at random who they'd want as our QB, RGIII would win and one of the main reasons, voiced or not, for many, would be his race.

Indy is currently 69% white, 25% black, and 6% other. I am also sure my random poll there would produce Luck as the winner and that race would be a main reason.

I'm not saying this to stir up controversy. I don't think it's wrong to lean one way or another based on race.

Darth, if you left it at that, I would get what you are saying.


The Harvard Implicit Association Study supports this. For fun take the test -

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

Indy and we are about to choose "the face of the franchise."

I think one of the reasons Indy/Luck Washington/RGIII is best is due to race.

I find the second statement puzzling. "Is best due to race?" Best for who and how is it best? Later you say, "more appropriate." What are you saying here?

You have mentioned the turbulent racial times of the 60's in D.C. (and D.C. is certainly not alone) and you mentioned that you saw no black QBs and that that wasn't long ago; however, since those turbulent times:

D.C. has had a black QB win a Super Bowl. A black QB drafted in the first round and a black QB snatched up so fast in free agency that few saw it coming. These were ground breaking events and certainly made some folks feel good at the time these events happened.

Indy has had two black head coaches and one winning a Super Bowl and one going to a Super Bowl. Cetrtainly ground breaking in Tony Dungy's case.

You point out that Indy has a larger white population than D.C., but when you consider fanbases (you said "face of the franchises" not "face of the cities"), both have prodominately white fan bases.

Again, how is it best for the black to go with black and the white to go with white. Isn't this thought process 60 ish?

Indy has never had a star starting QB, if you want to assume that both Luck and RGIII will be stars in the NFL, and if you want to talk race, wouldn't it be more of a groundbreaking event in this 21st century for RGIII to go to the Colts. I think that that event (not that I want it to happen) would cause more of a buzz and possibly provoke change more change in Indy than in D.C.

Racially speaking, which is "best" RGIII going to the Redskins or RGIII going to the Colts? Depends on your perspective if you want to speak racially.

Doug Williams starting in a Redskin unform made a lot of folks, black, white and other races proud that our team demonstrated a lot of racial progress. Doug Williams made a made a lot of folks in our nation, Redskin and American, proud that a black QB won a Super Bowl and that we could put that notion to rest that it couldnt be done and the not in our lifetime will we see it.
Folks today, still talk about Doug Williams. Why? Because he won. At the end of the day, if RGIII must win to be "best" for any reason.

It's 2012 - We will never be a colorblind nation - I get that. I get that it is your preference for RGIII for football reasons and for racial reasons. I don't see anything wrong with that, but when you say it is "best" or "more appropriate", I ask what groups or persons is it "best" or "more appropriate" for and why?

Red_One43 wrote:The Harvard Implicit Association Study supports this. For fun take the test -

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/

This looks like it might be interesting. I'll get back to you.

DarthMonk